Is YX a virtual airline?

Old Oct 15, 09, 2:11 pm
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Is YX a virtual airline?

From BizTimes.com:

http://www.biztimes.com/blogs/milwau...irline-anymore
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Old Oct 15, 09, 6:27 pm
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As Reichart mentioned in the article, Republic will take control of the YX code (release their RW code) and also take control of Midwest's 453 ticket stock. It would seem that Republic is becoming Midwest.

The whole thing is kinda tricky, Midwest's certificate is gone but their airline code, name and ticket stock remain but the flights are operated by Republic.

Last edited by 8C4IOW; Oct 15, 09 at 8:03 pm Reason: text
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Old Oct 15, 09, 7:17 pm
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Even if it does become a "virtual" airline, is that necessarily a good or bad thing? I mean, does it really matter in the whole scheme of things, from the perspective of a traveler?
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Old Oct 16, 09, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by newsmanhoss View Post
Even if it does become a "virtual" airline, is that necessarily a good or bad thing? I mean, does it really matter in the whole scheme of things, from the perspective of a traveler?
It may not matter to the uninformed traveler, however, it should matter to the business community and local politicians. DEN tied their proposed economic offer to an increase in jobs. DEN obviously sees through RJET's scheme of taking, but not necessarily delivering value back to the community. On the other hand, the MMAC blindly is still buying everything RJET is dishing out.
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Old Oct 16, 09, 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by NMFH View Post
It may not matter to the uninformed traveler, however, it should matter to the business community and local politicians. DEN tied their proposed economic offer to an increase in jobs. DEN obviously sees through RJET's scheme of taking, but not necessarily delivering value back to the community. On the other hand, the MMAC blindly is still buying everything RJET is dishing out.
I can see your point on this. The MMAC does semm to be somewhat blindy following Republic, and does not appear to be as involved in AirTran or other carriers. People in Wisconsin are sometimes loyal to a fault when it comes to supporting local businesses.

On the other hand, you can't blame the MMAC for supporting a business that still employs a fair number of people. And a lot of the MMAC's members still rely on Midwest for business travel.

It should also be pointed out that, other than Milwaukee County's efforts to help Midwest avoid bankruptcy several years ago, no government handouts have been given to Republic in Milwaukee.
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Old Oct 16, 09, 1:55 pm
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Originally Posted by newsmanhoss View Post
I can see your point on this. The MMAC does semm to be somewhat blindy following Republic, and does not appear to be as involved in AirTran or other carriers. People in Wisconsin are sometimes loyal to a fault when it comes to supporting local businesses.

On the other hand, you can't blame the MMAC for supporting a business that still employs a fair number of people. And a lot of the MMAC's members still rely on Midwest for business travel.

It should also be pointed out that, other than Milwaukee County's efforts to help Midwest avoid bankruptcy several years ago, no government handouts have been given to Republic in Milwaukee.
As noted by the Small Business Times in an interview with aviation consultant, Mr. Boyd - "Boyd said Milwaukee's chances of landing those jobs are slim because Republic is headquartered in Indianapolis and it has significantly scaled back its business operations in Milwaukee.

"If it's going to go anywhere it's going to go to Indianapolis," Boyd recently told the Indianapolis Star."

AirTran and soon Southwest will employee a fair number of Milwaukee area residents, possibly larger than the number RJET will employ here. Equal opportunity should be given to AirTran and Southwest. The MMAC should not be so influenced by one airline. Do the MMAC members fly other airlines as well? Didn't the MMAC and Milwaukee County try to solicit the other airlines to come to Milwaukee when they thought Midwest would go bankrupt? Midwest is no longer a hometown airline in any sense. It is a virtual airline. Now the MMAC is playing favorites.
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Old Oct 16, 09, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by NMFH View Post
As noted by the Small Business Times in an interview with aviation consultant, Mr. Boyd - "Boyd said Milwaukee's chances of landing those jobs are slim because Republic is headquartered in Indianapolis and it has significantly scaled back its business operations in Milwaukee.

"If it's going to go anywhere it's going to go to Indianapolis," Boyd recently told the Indianapolis Star."

Yes, Boyd did say that. But I think he may have forgotten that the YX hangar at MKE is in the running to see increased maintenance work, as it has been speculated that it is the frontrunner to handle F9 maintenance. Right now, it is my understanding that F9 leases space at DEN from CO. Republic might be moving that to Milwaukee, where it already owns a maintenance hangar.
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Old Oct 16, 09, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by NMFH View Post
AirTran and soon Southwest will employee a fair number of Milwaukee area residents, possibly larger than the number RJET will employ here. Equal opportunity should be given to AirTran and Southwest. The MMAC should not be so influenced by one airline. Do the MMAC members fly other airlines as well? Didn't the MMAC and Milwaukee County try to solicit the other airlines to come to Milwaukee when they thought Midwest would go bankrupt? Midwest is no longer a hometown airline in any sense. It is a virtual airline. Now the MMAC is playing favorites.

That's absurd. The MMAC is not playing favorites at all. They want jobs in Milwaukee. It's as simple as that.

Even if you combine the the number of employees that AirTran and Southwest have in MKE, it wouldn't come close to matching what Republic will be retaining in Milwaukee. Regardless, if AirTran and/or Southwest wanted to undertake a major expansion that would create hundreds of new jobs, the MMAC would definately be involved in putting together a set of incentives for either carrier.

Frankly, groups like the MMAC and Wisconsin in general have done a very poor job in retaining and/or recruiting companies to the state. It's about time that they step up to the plate and start competing with some of these other states.
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Old Oct 16, 09, 4:16 pm
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Originally Posted by newsmanhoss View Post
Right now, it is my understanding that F9 leases space at DEN from CO. Republic might be moving that to Milwaukee, where it already owns a maintenance hangar.
Correct. Frontier had plans to build a new maintenance facility in COS, but those plans were scrapped during bankruptcy. Those jobs were moving from DEN regardless.

Republic now owns a state-of-the-art, barely used maintenance facility in MKE.

Does it make more sense financially/operationally to perform this type of work in MKE or IND (where Republic also has a maintenance base)?
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Old Oct 16, 09, 4:37 pm
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Isn't there also a RJET maintenance facility in Columbus?
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Old Oct 16, 09, 11:01 pm
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Yes we have a large MX facility in CMH. We also have them in every base and most hubs that we fly to. CMH, PIT and IND are our heavy MX cities
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Old Oct 17, 09, 6:39 am
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Boyd has shown himself to be a buffoon repeatedly over the years. He's far more concerned with getting snarky sound bites out to the media than concerning himself with facts. As such, he's got to have a strong and sexy opinion on everything when the phone rings, regardless of his background knowledge. His opinions are shoot first, don't even both with questions later.

This is a fine example.

Boyd dismisses out of hand the possibility that anything could come to MKE based on the simple statement that Midwest no longer exists - cased closed. He pretty much decided that Midwest was dead years ago, and that has pretty much colored his sound-bite-statements on every Midwest-related question since.

His mind is made up, but he doesn't care to consider factors like these:

--Republic now has major facilities in Milwaukee which are pretty much unused now that the 717's are departing.

--Sending jobs to Milwaukee could be a shot in the arm for the position of the Republic subsidiary Midwest in their main market. There's no such boost from moving the jobs to Indianapolis because there is no "Republic" brand in IND to receive that boost.

--Republic has shown something of a "cost above all else" focus, and although they have stated they're not trying to get into a bidding war, they are clearly looking to see what kind of deal DEN, MKE and IND will give them.


None of this is an assurance that the work will come to MKE. Of course not. But all three of those are clearly reasons that suggest MKE is not to be dmissed out of hand.
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Old Oct 17, 09, 9:02 am
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Originally Posted by RSVP View Post
Isn't there also a RJET maintenance facility in Columbus?
As cwe84 mentioned, Republic does have a heavy maintenance facility in Columbus.

Besides the obvious financial impact, part of the decision surrounding where the Frontier jobs end-up may have to do with the ability to rotate aircraft in-and-out of the airport. Frontier has no service to either PIT or CMH. Midwest does, but neither route requires the frequency/capacity of an E190 or Airbus on a regular basis. Of course, both cities could be added from DEN but would hardly make sense if the only reason was to have aircraft serviced. Looking at it from this standpoint, MKE and IND make the most sense.

If you believe what has been reported in the media, Indiana has apparently but together a comprehensive package of economic incentives to lure all of those jobs to the state. Indiana has been very aggressive in encouraging businesses to either relocate or expand in the state and has had some pretty notable successes in recent years. Plus, they can afford to dish out money as Indiana is one of the few states currently operating in the black.

Milwaukee definately has a number of advantages to offer Republic, but I certainly wouldn't say they are the front-runner.
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Old Oct 17, 09, 10:29 am
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Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000 View Post
As cwe84 mentioned, Republic does have a heavy maintenance facility in Columbus.

Besides the obvious financial impact, part of the decision surrounding where the Frontier jobs end-up may have to do with the ability to rotate aircraft in-and-out of the airport. Frontier has no service to either PIT or CMH. Midwest does, but neither route requires the frequency/capacity of an E190 or Airbus on a regular basis. Of course, both cities could be added from DEN but would hardly make sense if the only reason was to have aircraft serviced. Looking at it from this standpoint, MKE and IND make the most sense.

If you believe what has been reported in the media, Indiana has apparently but together a comprehensive package of economic incentives to lure all of those jobs to the state. Indiana has been very aggressive in encouraging businesses to either relocate or expand in the state and has had some pretty notable successes in recent years. Plus, they can afford to dish out money as Indiana is one of the few states currently operating in the black.

Milwaukee definately has a number of advantages to offer Republic, but I certainly wouldn't say they are the front-runner.
Without getting too political here ever since former Wisconsin Governor Lee Dreyfus said the state should never have a surplus, that very statement has given all aspects of Wisconsin Government the license to keep spending and running a deficit. God rest Lee's soul, but he should have never said that. I think running a surplus would give us wiggle room in offering incentives to companies to locate here and probably would keep taxes from going up year after year. With that said, I agree Milwaukee and Wisconsin have a disadvantage when competing with a state like Indiana for jobs based on taxes and infrastructure alone. But if Republic brings jobs to Milwaukee it will boost the Midwest brand and foster more loyalty to fly Midwest. Just my two cents.
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Old Oct 17, 09, 11:47 am
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Originally Posted by knope2001 View Post
Boyd has shown himself to be a buffoon repeatedly over the years. He's far more concerned with getting snarky sound bites out to the media than concerning himself with facts. As such, he's got to have a strong and sexy opinion on everything when the phone rings, regardless of his background knowledge. His opinions are shoot first, don't even both with questions later.
Knope, your Midwest bias is showing. Nothing is important other than the bottom-line cost.

IMO it does not matter about the existing maintenance facility in MKE, community good-will does not matter, whichever city coughs up the most government subsidy money and incentives will get the jobs.
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