Fallingwater
 

I would like to visit Wright's Fallingwater which the web says is three hours from PIT, however it doesn't say in which direction. So, what's the nearest reaonable airport? Or might I want to come by Amtrak from somewhere? I'm not fond of driving. It looks like the tours are early morning. Where would I sleep that is convenient?

I am in WAS a few times a year, could add on to those trips, and will be in NYC next August.

Sylvia

Fallingwater is located southeast of Pittsburgh, about 2.5 hours drive (nearest small town is Mill Run).

The regular tours last 60 minutes and leave every hour on the half-hour. The in-depth tours (over two hours) ony have one start time, 08:30.

You may already have the link to the official site, but just in case:

http://www.paconserve.org/index-fw1.asp

Thanks. That's just what I wanted to know, enabled me to do some checking with online tools for distances, ...

Sylvia

Should only take 1.5 hours I should think, not more than 2 hours unless coming from north suburbs of Pittsburgh.

car and driver?
 

I just received an invitation to a meeting in Pittsburgh in November and am wondering if I can add on Kentuck Knob and Falling Water.

I will have November 3 free all day, meetings on 1 and 2, flying out on 4.

There are no one day bus tours. I do not want to drive myself.

Ideas about how to arrange for a car and driver for the day? I called one limo service, they charge only by the hour, and I'm guessing it would come to almost $600. And I certainly don't need a limo. I'm thinking one of the airport car service companies? Or even someone's friend who wanted a job for the day. Here in California I pay $350 plus tip for a round-trip to Sacramento (150 miles each way, maybe 15 hours total).

What should I expect for weather?

Sylvia

Weather: could be anything. The tours won't be especially weather dependent anyway. I haven't been to Kentuck Knob, but the standard Fallingwater tour doesn't go outside much. You could see unseasonably warm in early November, or it could be snowing. Hard to tell. If normal, expect temps in the 40s to maybe 50s, and hopefully it won't rain. (Sun? Ha!. We have more overcast days than Seattle I think.) Probably a bit late for fall color, though there may still be some.

It'll be a good idea to make a reservation, even though it's a weekday in November. If you go to the trouble of getting down there with a hired car, you want to make sure you can do them both. Getting between them you probably only need, oh, 1/2 hour I think, so you could schedule the time of whichever one is second (doesn't matter which order you do them in) about an hour after the first tour is meant to end. Add more time if you're paranoid there, but you may be paying hourly for your car so consider that.

Getting there: this is a tough one. Obviously it would be a heckuva lot cheaper if you did drive. You're talking one tank of gas and one day's rental at probably a pretty inexpensive rate, 20-30 bucks for midsize. The "limo" companies are probably about it. I don't think there are any dedicated car service companies in town. Many of the limo companies do have sedan service, though. One company that had its prices online says their Town Car is $298 for 5 hours and $47 per additional hour with no extra charges, even includes gratuity. (Edit: I noticed as I was about to close that window that it says "Prom" prices. I dunno if your use could be negotiated lower. Perhaps.) That's going to come out to a lot more than you're getting at $350 for 15 hours, which seems like quite the bargain to me. I don't have much experience with these companies, but if you want some names and numbers feel free to PM me. Maybe someone else from the area has a recommendation.

Beyond that, though, I wouldn't be too confident that many of these drivers have a clue how to get there or get around down there. I'm sure there have been a few people over the years who hired a car to drive them from here to Fallingwater, but finding a driver who is actually familiar with getting there I suspect will be unlikely. I wouldn't feel too confident leaving the navigation to any of them, even though if you tell them where you're going I suspect they will be gathering map info and stuff.

If you're absolutely positively not going to drive, then finding a FT'er or friend of an FT'er could help you keep the cost down. I can't volunteer for this, sorry, nor do I know anyone directly that I could recommend. Same caveats apply for knowing how to get there. Even someone who has been there once is suspect. Pittsburghers are notorious for only knowing how to get around very small areas near their home and to and from work. :D

Curious what the aversion to driving is. It's not a particularly complicated routing, though some of it will depend upon where in the Pittsburgh area you'll be staying (if you even know that yet). From the PIT area or even from downtown it's a fairly straightforward drive, and driving yourself would be by far the lowest cost and most flexible.

Kinda surprised, really, that there are no one-day bus tours. Seems like a logical thing to offer, although it may be an odd season for it. Probably not too popular on a weekday in November.

Anyway, let me know what else I can do to help.

CrazyOne: Curious what the aversion to driving is.

Thanks for all the good tips. I will be sure to get maps and a routing before I leave for Pittsburgh and will hope between now and then to come across someone who might enjoy driving me there.

I did rent a car in Madison a few years ago to visit some Wright sites. I just have never been very fond of driving. I average about 4000 miles a year on my 1999 red New Beetle <smile>.

Sylvia

Ah. Sometimes I wish I could get away with driving that little, but it's pretty difficult here. Plus, I like my house's almost rural setting, so I'm pretty much tied to my car anyway. ;)

Anyway, since there are several months between now and then, perhaps you'll find a willing chauffeur. If you end up driving, please don't hesitate to ask for tips. In particular, I'm thinking there are two main almost wholly different (until near the end) ways to get there from the downtown Pittsburgh area, either of which could make sense. I think the one that is likely to be a shorter distance is much more complicated to drive.

questions about renting a car
 

I've done some checking. It looks like car services and drivers will be prohibitive.

So I'm back to the suggestions here to rent a car.

I'm staying at the Westin and the concierge tells me that Enterprise delivers there. I don't want to pick up and drop off at the airport. I just want the car for one day, maybe 12 hours, November 3. Should I just go with Enterprise or would I be better of with a more dependable company?

And I own/drive a small small car. Should I rent something heavier in case of snow, intermediate instead of compact or economy?

Do car rentals come with snow tires?

Sylvia

i think youd have to worry about Snow if it was late Nov, not saying there couldnt be an early one but if there was Im sure it wouldnt be a big storm.

As for snow tires most if not all cars have M&S tires (Mud & Snow), so unless you heading into real snow country you M&S will more than due.

As for the cheapest, do a search on Orbitz using the Zip Code of the hotel, some cities there are numerous local places, I dont know about PIT.

I don't have much to offer in transportation suggestions above what's already been said here, but my wife and I did go to F/W last summer and found it extremely interesting. It will be well worth your drive.

There's also an Avis location in downtown Pittsburgh, in the building I used to work in (reasonable walking distance from the Westin). If that appeals to you more than Enterprise, you could check with them. It's a franchise location, but they were always friendly with us. If you want to check rates, you're looking for the location at 625 Stanwix Street.

There's no Hertz location downtown. There may still be a Budget, but it's not quite as convenient to get to. I don't think anyone else has a downtown location. I thought the Enterprise was close, but I just looked it up, and it's not really. They'll probably make you ride back to the office with them, which could actually make Avis more convenient.

Since Nov 3 is a Thursday, you shouldn't have any problem with pickup/dropoff times. I still park in the same garage where Avis keeps their cars. (Yet another point in Avis' favor: the garage location keeps downtown street driving to a minimum.) They allow for after-hours drop, so even though I think they close at 6ish, you should be able to drop it that evening while incurring just a one-day rental and no unnecessary parking charges.

I don't think you should go for a larger car size at all. Go for economy and hope for no upgrade! On the off chance that it actually does snow in early November (not too likely, but it could happen) you'll be better off with a car size that's closer to the one you drive. Having a midsize vs compact or subcompact really won't make a lot of difference in snow performance. Not having to worry about the car being too big will be a much greater help. The cars will have all-season tires on I'm sure. They should be fine for any snow that would happen in early Nov.

Another thing that comes to mind logistically: if you're doing this drive on Thurs then leaving on Friday, then you should definitely consider staying elsewhere on Thursday night. Coming all the way back downtown is fairly counterproductive if the main thing you're doing Friday is going to the airport. Transport from the airport is a $30 or so cab ride or a $20-ish shuttle I suspect. (There may or may not still be a nasty uncomfortable couple dollar public bus route, wouldn't recommend except for the cheapest of cheapskates.) If your schedule works that way, then I would recommend getting the transport to the airport on Thurs and renting the car there, assuming the car rental is cheaper there. If it's not, then find out the cost of renting downtown and returning to the airport. Enterprise will probably work better for this since it's all company owned. The downtown Avis is a franchisee, but you can check with them anyway and see what they say. Then you can stay out at the airport that night. The Hyatt is decent. If you're stuck on Starwood, I think there's only the Four Points. Or you could stay down at Nemacolin near Fallingwater (probably pricey). You could keep the car all night, or if you stay near the airport just return it and use the hotel shuttle.

Of course, that big paragraph is moot if you have business downtown on Friday, but it doesn't look like it. If your flight is not first thing in the morning, you may be wishing to keep the car longer. Maybe just plot the 24 hour rental period accordingly (9-9, 10-10, whatever). If your flight is well into the afternoon, make it a 2-day rental.

CrazyOne, thanks for all the input.

Walking to Avis is fine, I think better than having to be driven back to an Enterprise office. According to the web sites, Avis costs a few dollars more. Convenience is more important than an extra $10. I will have to check details by phone, I think. My own car insurance will transfer to a rental plus my AmEx card will cover all that my insurance doesn't, so that's set. The Avis web site says they don't open until 9 but if I have to be driven back to Enterprise, leaving by 9:15 will be OK I guess.

The Westin concierge said I would be leaving against traffic and any time in the morning would be OK and that I would be hitting traffic coming back around 3 or 4.

I now drive a New Beetle, so will pick a small car; thanks.

You wrote that "coming all the way back downtown is fairly counterproductive." My flight Friday is at 11:30 AM and you are right, no business anticipated. This is the second piece of a month-long trip to several climates and I will have four pieces of luggage (one will be FedEx'd home after the third piece to which I will be flying.), a set of wheels in each hand. So I'll have to think about wheeling to Avis, being driven by Enterprise, coming back to the hotel with an Avis car for my bags, ... I'm at the Westin because the conference is at the Weston. I don't get enough points on my own to be loyal to any particular hotel though my SPG AmEx is my preferred card The conference is paying travel costs NTE a set amount and I think I'll come in just under their maximum with the shuttle and staying the last night at the Westin. Of course the car rental and side-trip is my own expense. So I need to factor all these things in and think about what will be the most convenient, and I think phone Avis.

I got some routings from AAA and from Google - they all start on 376 and then vary. I thought I'd also ask the concierge and the car rental and then choose. A bit longer is OK if its simple. My intention is to go first to Kentuck Knob, then back to Falling Water.

I guess I can wait until mid-September to make the actual car and tour reservations, and maybe change the last night.

This is sounding very appealing and manageable. I appreciate all the help.

Sylvia

Hm. You know, with a heavy luggage load, you've probably got the one situation where staying put downtown is a better idea. I mean, I guess you could walk to Avis, get the car, drive it back up to the Westin to get your luggage, then cart it around with you all day and... but then there's still that issue of whether or not you can return the car at the airport. Eh. Perhaps staying put there is best from a convenience standpoint. Then you pick up and return the car to the same place and don't have to move all that stuff multiple times.

Good luck getting directions from those folks. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I wouldn't be too hopeful. ;) I guess people working in the travel industry *should* know better, but typical Pittsburghers know their one area of town and that's it.

Surprises me that Avis isn't open until 9, but it might actually save you from trying to go earlier in some heavier traffic. The reality is the routes to the south and east (where you need to go) are heavy enough in both directions both morning and evening rush times. Both interstates (376 east and 279 south) are blocked by tunnels that slow things down. By 9 it should be thinning out, though. Traffic on the way back will be heavy, too, until at least 6ish. But we're talking "heavy" only within a few miles of downtown, coming up to the tunnels.

The "simplest" route I was thinking of (and the one with the least traffic congestion) actually takes I-279 south to I-79 south. And then you just take that down to US 40 east. And that's it. Both Fallingwater and Kentuck Knob are signed off US 40. The only real problem with this routing is it travels for longer distance on a 2-lane road.

The other way would be to take PA 51 south to Uniontown then US 40 east. This would be the shortest distance, no doubt, but the congestion and traffic lights through the south suburbs of Pittsburgh may make this route no shorter time-wise than the previous one. To get to 51 there are a couple of routes, but the easiest may be still to take I-279 south through the tunnel. (I-279 is very easily accessed from Avis, just a right turn out of the garage then a right turn half a block up at the traffic light. Then straight over the bridge and through the tunnel.)

The only other factor here could be the construction they're doing on the section of I-79 just south of I-279. My understanding is it's one side this summer and the other side next summer, so in November they might be done with this year's portion. This is something you can get an update on when you get here, though, then decide which routing you like. There are a couple other route variations, I suppose, but those two are the main ones that make sense. Everything else would be even more out of the way.

One more thing. I'm sure the car reservation probably doesn't matter so much, though you may want to lock it in to have it (no obligation with those guys, normally). But even on a midweek you may want to make sure you get your tour reservations at the Wright houses at the right times of day. I don't know how much they would fill up midweek in November, probably not much, but just in case since you're coming all this way don't wait too long.

That probably about covers most everything, but if you think of anything else (or have other questions about Pittsburgh) please just ask. :)

Depending on where you're from, and how used to snow you are, you probably want to stick to highways as much as possible. This winter will be my first one back since 2000, so I'm not sure what the weather has been like in November for the past few years, but snow is always a possibility then.

Do you know anyone else who will be attending the conference? If you do, perhaps you could see if they would be interested in going on the side trip, and they could drive.