Long haul flights not allowed from DCA / Washington National?
#46
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posts: 9,955
I would do the same if I had power to abuse. I can walk from DCA to the national mall faster than anyone can drive me out to Dulles.
(and yes, when I fly into DC in the spring and fall with just a light suitcase, I have a few times now walked from the terminal straight to central DC). It's a beautiful walk, especially after being crammed in coach for 2.5 hours)
(and yes, when I fly into DC in the spring and fall with just a light suitcase, I have a few times now walked from the terminal straight to central DC). It's a beautiful walk, especially after being crammed in coach for 2.5 hours)
I typically take the afternoon Delta nonstop from DCA home to SLC (another perimeter exception) on a Saturday, so that gives me Saturday morning to just explore on foot. When I am done walking around, I catch the Metro back to Crystal City. If I get a late checkout (fairly easy to get for a Saturday departure), I can shower before the flight. If not, I have the hotel in Crystal City hold my luggage.
#47
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posts: 9,955
On the 1250 miles DCA perimeter -- it used to be less - maybe 1100 miles. Then many years back they extended it to 1250 to allow non-stops to DFW and IAH. I think a politician from Texas got that extension.
But AA used to fly DCA-IAD-DFW to get around the rule.. I have flow this flight from DCA - but way back. It stopped at IAD for departures only, no arrivals allowed. That was when the mobile lounges took you directly to the plane (the way the airport was designed). So the stop was quick, and the mobile lounge was waiting with the passengers boarding at IAD. So no need to go to a gate. Well they did not have gates for the plane in those days at IAD. But I am sure they did some refueling at IAD.
But AA used to fly DCA-IAD-DFW to get around the rule.. I have flow this flight from DCA - but way back. It stopped at IAD for departures only, no arrivals allowed. That was when the mobile lounges took you directly to the plane (the way the airport was designed). So the stop was quick, and the mobile lounge was waiting with the passengers boarding at IAD. So no need to go to a gate. Well they did not have gates for the plane in those days at IAD. But I am sure they did some refueling at IAD.
#48
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posts: 9,955
No, MWAA is a champion of the perimeter rule (which predates MWAA). More clearly stated would have been, "MWAA hates when an expansion is proposed and vociferously opposes such proposals." MWAA is trying to drive as much traffic as possible to IAD to lower the enplanement costs. IADs capacity is vastly underused while DCA is constantly pressed to handle its current load.
Not to mention the noise complaints from DCA's neighbors who almost every single one of them chose to buy/rent housing close to an airport...
Not to mention the noise complaints from DCA's neighbors who almost every single one of them chose to buy/rent housing close to an airport...
#49
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,644
I've never understood why IAD was ever built. BWI is not THAT much further from downtown DC than IAD is. It sure seems to me that BWI and DCA are all that are needed. DCA IS, after all in Virginia, so it seems that it should be able to adequately serve points south of DC until you get into the RIC catchment.
But I think i was still wise to build IAD way back in the early 1960s - even though not needed, as they were able to get the land and build the IAD access road. The surrounding areas are densely populated - so trying to build a new airport now would be impossible.
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
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I think the original plan was to scale DCA way back and IAD would be the main Washington DC airport. Of course that never happened. Business travelers (including government employees) preferred the convenience of DCA. Same is true of other airports like DAL and LGA. Although In the case of DEN, they shutdown the close in airport.
But I think i was still wise to build IAD way back in the early 1960s - even though not needed, as they were able to get the land and build the IAD access road. The surrounding areas are densely populated - so trying to build a new airport now would be impossible.
But I think i was still wise to build IAD way back in the early 1960s - even though not needed, as they were able to get the land and build the IAD access road. The surrounding areas are densely populated - so trying to build a new airport now would be impossible.
David
#51
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Posts: 102,103
I remember when the big deal was that DCA was getting the DCA-West Coast flight on AS because there hadn't been any non-stop DCA-West Coast flights for quite some time and then some.
For so long I have disliked IAD so much that I preferred additional connections to get in and out of DCA. But with flight schedules now not being what they used to be pre-Covid-19, I'm using IAD more.
Back when USAir was HQed in Crystal City, didn't US have flights from DCA too -- maybe also BWI? -- to some offshore islands around North America even to places without CBP Preclearance? It wasn't all CLT, PHL, and BWI for US service from the US to offshore islands.
There used to be a flight that connected DCA and BWI. IIRC, it was the shortest flight in the US48 for a while.
For so long I have disliked IAD so much that I preferred additional connections to get in and out of DCA. But with flight schedules now not being what they used to be pre-Covid-19, I'm using IAD more.
There used to be a flight that connected DCA and BWI. IIRC, it was the shortest flight in the US48 for a while.
#52
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Trenton NJ
Programs: UA Gold MM, Honors Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 3,653
\Lived in a condo in SW DC near the Waterfront Metro stop and we'd watch that flight come in over the District. If I remember correctly, it was the only flight that was allowed to fly over the District.
#53
Interesting topic. Just stumbled across it.
Couple of corrections.
The DC-10 that diverted was not Northwest, it was United.
B777 has never landed at DCA airport.
Delta used B767-300 before Obama's inauguration. I believe it was total of 8 round trips.
For a very short period, Eastern Air Lines operated A300 on a Shuttle flights between DCA and LGA. It was mostly a gimmick to get attention and passengers.
Orbis Flying Hospital DC-10-30 visited DCA June 28th 2016.
Boeing 787-8 demo aircraft visited DCA once. It flew IAD-DCA-IAD. Arrived at DCA on May 7th 2012, and departed back to IAD on May 11th 2012.
Vietnam Airlines 787-9 arrived empty at DCA on July 6th 2015 for official delivery ceremony. Departed the same day in the early evening hours.
I don't know of any other wide body aircraft visits to DCA
Couple of corrections.
The DC-10 that diverted was not Northwest, it was United.
B777 has never landed at DCA airport.
Delta used B767-300 before Obama's inauguration. I believe it was total of 8 round trips.
For a very short period, Eastern Air Lines operated A300 on a Shuttle flights between DCA and LGA. It was mostly a gimmick to get attention and passengers.
Orbis Flying Hospital DC-10-30 visited DCA June 28th 2016.
Boeing 787-8 demo aircraft visited DCA once. It flew IAD-DCA-IAD. Arrived at DCA on May 7th 2012, and departed back to IAD on May 11th 2012.
Vietnam Airlines 787-9 arrived empty at DCA on July 6th 2015 for official delivery ceremony. Departed the same day in the early evening hours.
I don't know of any other wide body aircraft visits to DCA
#54
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
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I remember when the big deal was that DCA was getting the DCA-West Coast flight on AS because there hadn't been any non-stop DCA-West Coast flights for quite some time and then some.
For so long I have disliked IAD so much that I preferred additional connections to get in and out of DCA. But with flight schedules now not being what they used to be pre-Covid-19, I'm using IAD more.
Back when USAir was HQed in Crystal City, didn't US have flights from DCA too -- maybe also BWI? -- to some offshore islands around North America even to places without CBP Preclearance? It wasn't all CLT, PHL, and BWI for US service from the US to offshore islands.
There used to be a flight that connected DCA and BWI. IIRC, it was the shortest flight in the US48 for a while.
For so long I have disliked IAD so much that I preferred additional connections to get in and out of DCA. But with flight schedules now not being what they used to be pre-Covid-19, I'm using IAD more.
Back when USAir was HQed in Crystal City, didn't US have flights from DCA too -- maybe also BWI? -- to some offshore islands around North America even to places without CBP Preclearance? It wasn't all CLT, PHL, and BWI for US service from the US to offshore islands.
There used to be a flight that connected DCA and BWI. IIRC, it was the shortest flight in the US48 for a while.
#55
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alexandria, Va - National Airport (DCA)
Programs: AA Gold, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, CBP Global Entry, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 336
bwiadca is accurate on all points in this thread. If someone has proof of a B777 landing here I would love to see it.
The only other correction I would add is the often misunderstood notion that long-haul aircraft are noisier. Prior to covid reductions, AS flew the A321neos acquired from VA to SEA, LAX, PDX, and SFO. They are some of the quietest mainline jets in the industry - much quieter than the plethora of B738s AA and WN use inside the perimeter many times a day.
The only other correction I would add is the often misunderstood notion that long-haul aircraft are noisier. Prior to covid reductions, AS flew the A321neos acquired from VA to SEA, LAX, PDX, and SFO. They are some of the quietest mainline jets in the industry - much quieter than the plethora of B738s AA and WN use inside the perimeter many times a day.
#56
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,402
I didn't realize it was a connection. . . I recall taking that flight to/from New Haven, but thought it was basically a one-stop flight to drop/pick up passengers "on the way".
#57
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,950
Yes, that's clearly an outdated and oversimplified notion (would you rather have a 140-seat MD-80 or a 200-seat A321neo fly over your bedroom window?), although it is easier to implement restrictions based on weight, seat count, or flight distance than noise levels. And changing anything related to DCA (or SNA, LGB, LHR, SYD or many other airports with powerful people who live nearby) "noise" restrictions is very difficult politically; when there is opposition from more than two sides, the status quo always has an enormous advantage.