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-   -   DC - where to live? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mid-atlantic/1704476-dc-where-live.html)

IADCAflyer Sep 13, 2015 5:05 pm


Originally Posted by fly7b2 (Post 25419692)
This is a great thread about nova, but what about DC proper?

Depends on where you work, where you want to live, what lifestyle you have, whether you have a car or not, what your family situation is like, how much money you have to spend, etc., etc., etc.

GUWonder Sep 14, 2015 2:15 am


Originally Posted by fly7b2 (Post 25419692)
This is a great thread about nova, but what about DC proper?

Living in DC proper while working in McLean is possible, but it is generally not as convenient.

gnaget Sep 15, 2015 11:35 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25421471)
Living in DC proper while working in McLean is possible, but it is generally not as convenient.

I used to drive from Dupont Circle area to McLean proper frequently during peak rush hour in the morning. It took 20 min each and every day via the GW Pkwy. Add another 5 min to get to Cap One.

The Metro operation in DC is a disaster so I would not plan to rely on it.

GUWonder Sep 15, 2015 1:07 pm


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25429259)
I used to drive from Dupont Circle area to McLean proper frequently during peak rush hour in the morning. It took 20 min each and every day via the GW Pkwy. Add another 5 min to get to Cap One.

The Metro operation in DC is a disaster so I would not plan to rely on it.

Just the variance in drive times for getting across the bridges to go between McLean and Georgetown or Foggy Bottom was enough to make me advice people working in McLean to do what it takes to avoid the bridge crossings. In the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, it was less of an issue.

dchristiva Sep 15, 2015 4:03 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25429749)
Just the variance in drive times for getting across the bridges to go between McLean and Georgetown or Foggy Bottom was enough to make me advice people working in McLean to do what it takes to avoid the bridge crossings. In the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, it was less of an issue.

I tend to agree. The bridge infrastructure in D.C., like many places, is failing, and the level of required repairs (and corresponding traffic delays/hassles) are apt to increase in the coming years.

Based on what the OP seems to want, NoVa offers many areas that should yield very satisfactory living/commuting experiences.

gnaget Sep 15, 2015 11:43 pm

There is no variance when you drive against traffic from DC to Tysons. I was doing this regularly up until 6 years ago. There is a hell of a lot more variance with the crappy metro system.

My suggestion was that (with his budget) the guy lives in a mediocre place walking distance from Cap One and he will pay maybe $1000 less in rent. When he wants to go somewhere interesting then he can drive (~15 min) or now take the metro into DC. I don't see the point in living in a mediocre, over-priced place around Clarendon or Rosslyn; it is a very sterile area. You pay $$$ for being close to downtown DC. You can get the same shopping around Tysons and McLean. There is a Trader Joe's and Whole Foods (across the street from each other) just a mile or two down route 7 toward Falls Church.




Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25429749)
Just the variance in drive times for getting across the bridges to go between McLean and Georgetown or Foggy Bottom was enough to make me advice people working in McLean to do what it takes to avoid the bridge crossings. In the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, it was less of an issue.


GUWonder Sep 16, 2015 1:31 am


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25432273)
There is no variance when you drive against traffic from DC to Tysons. I was doing this regularly up until 6 years ago. There is a hell of a lot more variance with the crappy metro system.

My suggestion was that (with his budget) the guy lives in a mediocre place walking distance from Cap One and he will pay maybe $1000 less in rent. When he wants to go somewhere interesting then he can drive (~15 min) or now take the metro into DC. I don't see the point in living in a mediocre, over-priced place around Clarendon or Rosslyn; it is a very sterile area. You pay $$$ for being close to downtown DC. You can get the same shopping around Tysons and McLean. There is a Trader Joe's and Whole Foods (across the street from each other) just a mile or two down route 7 toward Falls Church.

"Driving against traffic" benefits are still there but they have become less meaningful in the DC area than it used to be. And there is variance involved, even when doing the "drive against traffic". That said, I'm a fan of the idea of being walking or biking distance to work, especially when the work neighborhood is acceptable and the lodging costs a better value.

Reduced variance in travel time for the most commonly taken trips during the work week makes for less unwelcome outcomes during or arising from commutes; and with walking/biking commutes, the variance in travel time and the travel time tend to be such that it makes for a better quality of life. Living in DC and having to drive to McLean every workday is not generally a way to as reliably achieve the kind of quality of life or work-life balance that can be had by living in Arlington or Fairfax.

geo1005 Sep 16, 2015 9:31 am

McLean is a great area (it's not a walk-able neighborhood, even those who live in the middle of McLean drive everywhere they go) if you are married with kids (or older). It's really not a place for singles unless you're older, divorced and need to live near your kids who now reside with your -ex. ;)

Anyone single and under 40'ish would be wise to stick closer to the Courthouse/Clarendon/VA Square areas for the more youthful vibe.

SpammersAreScum Sep 19, 2015 10:14 am


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25432273)

My suggestion was that (with his budget) the guy lives in a mediocre place walking distance from Cap One and he will pay maybe $1000 less in rent. When he wants to go somewhere interesting then he can drive (~15 min) or now take the metro into DC. I don't see the point in living in a mediocre, over-priced place around Clarendon or Rosslyn; it is a very sterile area. You pay $$$ for being close to downtown DC. You can get the same shopping around Tysons and McLean. There is a Trader Joe's and Whole Foods (across the street from each other) just a mile or two down route 7 toward Falls Church.

If the Cap One location in question is the big building on Cap One Dr (off 123), there's really only one choice within walking distance -- the new complex on Spring Gate Dr. Next choices would be well the other side of 123, over a mile away. There are probably closer choices on Westpark, but then you need to somehow walk across the Beltway.

If the location is one of the branches in "downtown" McLean, that's a different story, but now you're a goodly hike from Metro.

TOMFORD Sep 20, 2015 11:07 am

I'm looking at Clarendon and the move time gets closer and closer. However, studios near the metro are 2K+, and studios not near the metro... well, there aren't many apt not near the metro. I looked into Tyson and McLean as well, but those two places just aren't as populated as I'd like. I like to be able to walk to places, and I don't want to commute to work, regardless of traffic conditions.

It looks like I can't get as much as I thought with 2K monthly rent. Just have to shell out more money I guess. Is Rosslyn any good?

Ber2dca Sep 21, 2015 4:47 pm

As mentioned, Ballston or even Virginia Square should be a bit cheaper than Clarendon.

I also think that the idea of living in McLean (or thereabout) and working in McLean and then going into D.C. or even Arlington after work is one of those things you talk about the possibility of doing but would find far too much hassle very quickly.

I know people who lived out there and thought they'd do that but in the end moved back to Arlington or Alexandria because at the end of the day you end up kind of isolated out there especially if you're not a family man and your social circle are other young adults whose lives revolve around D.C. and inner Arlington.

TOMFORD Sep 21, 2015 4:58 pm

Does DC have a monthly unlimited subway pass like there is in NY? If not and I metro Clarendon - McLean for work everyday, how much would that cost?

gnaget Sep 21, 2015 9:48 pm


Originally Posted by SpammersAreScum (Post 25449180)
If the Cap One location in question is the big building on Cap One Dr (off 123), there's really only one choice within walking distance -- the new complex on Spring Gate Dr. Next choices would be well the other side of 123, over a mile away. There are probably closer choices on Westpark, but then you need to somehow walk across the Beltway.

If the location is one of the branches in "downtown" McLean, that's a different story, but now you're a goodly hike from Metro.

That's incorrect. There are at least 5 buildings or complexes less than 1 km from Cap One inside the Beltway. The most interesting one is Commons of McLean, which was designed by the famous modernist architect Charles Goodman. The construction is high quality and have been told that it is sound isolated unlike the newer garbage you will find in Clarendon.

Spring Gate Dr. is awful. Right next to the Beltway. It is a condo that was either built or converted during the bubble. I remember that there was like a forest of for sale signs when things started getting ugly in 2006-7.

gnaget Sep 21, 2015 9:57 pm


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25459325)
Does DC have a monthly unlimited subway pass like there is in NY? If not and I metro Clarendon - McLean for work everyday, how much would that cost?

Nope. You can look it up on Wmata.com. My guess is $7-$8 round trip.

But you should realize that metro is a disaster. Today, for example, you would not have been able to get to work on that route. You definitely need a car for back-up, and figure hassles with parking or $200 a month if it is not included if you live in Claredon-Rosslyn corridor.

GUWonder Sep 22, 2015 3:03 am


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25453195)
I'm looking at Clarendon and the move time gets closer and closer. However, studios near the metro are 2K+, and studios not near the metro... well, there aren't many apt not near the metro. I looked into Tyson and McLean as well, but those two places just aren't as populated as I'd like. I like to be able to walk to places, and I don't want to commute to work, regardless of traffic conditions.

It looks like I can't get as much as I thought with 2K monthly rent. Just have to shell out more money I guess. Is Rosslyn any good?

Rosslyn is decent, but it is still somewhat more sterile and "sleepy" than the Courthouse -- Clarendon stretch. For the better part of the past twenty years, Rosslyn's newer buildings had higher rents than Courthouse/Clarendon's buildings of a comparable age. I find Rosslyn great because it's at least somewhat more convenient for Alexandria/DCA and downtown DC if using the Metro a lot. It even has been pretty good with getting out to Dulles, but the future of that is very much up in the air now.

GUWonder Sep 22, 2015 3:06 am


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25459325)
Does DC have a monthly unlimited subway pass like there is in NY? If not and I metro Clarendon - McLean for work everyday, how much would that cost?

These are the only kind of passes that I see marketed for at least Metro use:

http://www.wmata.com/fares/purchase/passes.cfm

TOMFORD Sep 22, 2015 4:06 am


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25460351)
But you should realize that metro is a disaster. Today, for example, you would not have been able to get to work on that route. You definitely need a car for back-up, and figure hassles with parking or $200 a month if it is not included if you live in Claredon-Rosslyn corridor.

Why can I not use the metro today? Does that line/section close often?

gnaget Sep 22, 2015 9:06 am


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25461127)
Why can I not use the metro today? Does that line/section close often?

There was a transformer fire somewhere near the MD/DC border. The Silver line was shut down except EFC to Reston from 7 am for most of the day on Monday.

These problems are quite common and that's why I do not recommend taking metro if you need to get somewhere on time.

Many people are giving up on metro because of continuous operating problems. It is really quite bad.

gnaget Sep 22, 2015 9:23 am

A nice thing about Rosslyn is also that you can easily hop on the GW Parkway to go to McLean and there won't be any traffic during rush hour. On I-66 there is reverse commuter congestion.

But Court House is like less than a 15 min walk from Rosslyn.

One general comment about Rosslyn-Clarendon is that it was historically not an upscale area so there are still some very nasty legacy apartments. They won't be cheap necessarily. I think there is still a "welfare client" Motor Inn on Wilson or Clarendon.



Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25460999)
Rosslyn is decent, but it is still somewhat more sterile and "sleepy" than the Courthouse -- Clarendon stretch. For the better part of the past twenty years, Rosslyn's newer buildings had higher rents than Courthouse/Clarendon's buildings of a comparable age. I find Rosslyn great because it's at least somewhat more convenient for Alexandria/DCA and downtown DC if using the Metro a lot. It even has been pretty good with getting out to Dulles, but the future of that is very much up in the air now.


GUWonder Sep 22, 2015 9:48 am


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25462295)
A nice thing about Rosslyn is also that you can easily hop on the GW Parkway to go to McLean and there won't be any traffic during rush hour. On I-66 there is reverse commuter congestion.

But Court House is like less than a 15 min walk from Rosslyn.

One general comment about Rosslyn-Clarendon is that it was historically not an upscale area so there are still some very nasty legacy apartments. They won't be cheap necessarily. I think there is still a "welfare client" Motor Inn on Wilson or Clarendon.

The whole Rosslyn to Ballston stretch was historically not an upscale area, although Rosslyn's buildings used to have significantly higher rents than comparable buildings along the Courthouse-Ballston stretch until around ten years ago. Even 15 years ago, the better buildings in Rosslyn used to have higher rental prices per square foot than most of the comparable buildings on Mass Ave NW in DC or anywhere along the Courthouse-Ballston stretch.

Rosslyn is relatively deserted compared to Courthouse-Clarendon, but the area is still safe and has some very decent buildings. And the Rosslyn area has worked out better for me than Courthouse/Clarendon, especially if driving out "deeper into Virginia" during rush hour is involved.

I've not seen any "welfare client" motel on Wilson or Clarendon in Rosslyn in a long time, unless Hyatt and the Courtyard Marriott have suddenly been reclassified. :D

TOMFORD Sep 22, 2015 12:16 pm

Ahh I see. Well despite known issues and the cost, I think Clarendon is the best place for me as a first step into the DC metro area. Maybe I will spend a year there and as I get more familiar with the area, I can find other places to move to.

I'm excited to design my apartment after Bulgari hotels, Tom Ford stores, and the Mad Men office!

flyer703 Sep 22, 2015 8:38 pm


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25463178)
I think Clarendon is the best place for me as a first step into the DC metro area.

That's a great choice and I think you'll really like it. Be sure to check out Old Town Alexandria (King Street metro or 10 min drive) after you get moved in!

gnaget Sep 23, 2015 12:56 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25462417)
Even 15 years ago, the better buildings in Rosslyn used to have higher rental prices per square foot than most of the comparable buildings on Mass Ave NW in DC or anywhere along the Courthouse-Ballston stretch.

Rosslyn is relatively deserted compared to Courthouse-Clarendon, but the area is still safe and has some very decent buildings. And the Rosslyn area has worked out better for me than Courthouse/Clarendon, especially if driving out "deeper into Virginia" during rush hour is involved.

I've not seen any "welfare client" motel on Wilson or Clarendon in Rosslyn in a long time, unless Hyatt and the Courtyard Marriott have suddenly been reclassified. :D

There are even some townhouses in Rosslyn. They run about $4000 a month.

http://www.highlandermotel.com/hotel-overview.html It's on Wilson. This is the Clarendon of 15-20 years ago.

I had to find a place to live in the DC area for a few months and was considering AKA Arlington, which was across the street. One review said it was very noisy and unpleasant and a major factor was this Highlander across the street. If think the Highlanders won the battle in the end because the AKA is now closed and from Google street maps it appears that the place was being turned into some "lovely" condos fall of 2014.

GUWonder Sep 23, 2015 5:00 am


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25465766)
There are even some townhouses in Rosslyn. They run about $4000 a month.

http://www.highlandermotel.com/hotel-overview.html It's on Wilson. This is the Clarendon of 15-20 years ago.

I had to find a place to live in the DC area for a few months and was considering AKA Arlington, which was across the street. One review said it was very noisy and unpleasant and a major factor was this Highlander across the street. If think the Highlanders won the battle in the end because the AKA is now closed and from Google street maps it appears that the place was being turned into some "lovely" condos fall of 2014.

That motel's not been on Wilson or Clarendon in Rosslyn. Rosslyn never extended that far up Wilson/Clarendon.

But indeed 15-20 years ago and even several years later the area around that motel (not in Rosslyn) was not a very nice place to live.

gnaget Sep 23, 2015 7:42 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25466238)
That motel's not been on Wilson or Clarendon in Rosslyn. Rosslyn never extended that far up Wilson/Clarendon.

But indeed 15-20 years ago and even several years later the area around that motel (not in Rosslyn) was not a very nice place to live.

Definitely. I was referring to the general area.

I agree that Rosslyn was the more upscale and commercial part of that general area, but there are still pockets of dumpy apartments. When were most of the commercial high-rise buildings constructed? I know that those townhouses were built in the 1990s (they are behind the Key Bridge Marriott) and there are some also on the other side of Lee Highway.

There are some very dumpy apartments in Rosslyn in a large complex. Not sure if they are condo by now. If you cross the Roosevelt bridge from DC and turn right (Ft. Meyer? The road that takes you to the Key bridge); right there.

The irony is that the Highlander is in trendy Clarendon.

p.s. There is a automotive shop called Rosslyn Tire in Merrifield. It was originally in Rosslyn and relocated to Merrifield many years ago. But it is indicative of what you might have found in Rosslyn in the past. Definitely no auto shops today. Well, there is a Mr. Tire in Court House.

GUWonder Sep 23, 2015 7:53 am

River Place? Those were at least a mix of condos with some kind of weird max period of allowance to exist. But it never had much of a welfare crowd feel to it -- that was like an unofficial Georgetown University and George Washington University off campus dormitory with lots of recent college grads mixed in too with some immigrant families and elderly. The State Department employees' parties in that complex were rather notorious, but indeed I wouldn't ever want to live there. ;)

The notorious Highlander motel by Virginia Square/GMU seems to refuse to sell. Not sure what the whole story is about that, but there have been people wanting to buy it for years and years.

The Avalon condos behind the Key Bridge Marriott were a great investment, along with the Atrium, when timed correctly. But indeed closer to that part of Lee Highway running from Rosslyn there was some more "working class" feel to it.

SpammersAreScum Sep 23, 2015 6:53 pm


Originally Posted by gnaget (Post 25460326)
That's incorrect. There are at least 5 buildings or complexes less than 1 km from Cap One inside the Beltway. The most interesting one is Commons of McLean, which was designed by the famous modernist architect Charles Goodman. The construction is high quality and have been told that it is sound isolated unlike the newer garbage you will find in Clarendon.

I'll grant you that I was a bit over when I said "over a mile", but "less than a km" is just as far off in the other direction. Google Maps says The Commons is .8mi on foot, or 1.3km.

Given their relative ages, you may well be right about the quality. I've been driving past The Commons regularly for 22 years, but have never known anyone who's been in either one.

dchristiva Sep 24, 2015 8:22 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25460999)
Rosslyn is decent, but it is still somewhat more sterile and "sleepy" than the Courthouse -- Clarendon stretch. For the better part of the past twenty years, Rosslyn's newer buildings had higher rents than Courthouse/Clarendon's buildings of a comparable age. I find Rosslyn great because it's at least somewhat more convenient for Alexandria/DCA and downtown DC if using the Metro a lot. It even has been pretty good with getting out to Dulles, but the future of that is very much up in the air now.

I agree. If work was in the Pentagon City/Crystal City/Alexandria area, Rosslyn might not be a bad choice. But it is fairly "sleepy" relative to the other areas along the Wilson/Clarendon Blvd. corridor. Clarendon would be my first choice, followed by Va. Square, and then Ballston. Heck, even the East and West Falls Church areas are chock full of condos for rent by owner and can be a decent bargain. The nightlife is a little more interesting in the East Falls Church area, but the overall economics of living there might be better. And commuting to Cap One from there would be pretty easy by D.C. standards via back roads.

TOMFORD Oct 5, 2015 11:47 am

I signed a lease for a place in Clarendon. Thanks all for the advise! It is a few hundred dollars more a month than other places in Arlington, but the location and liveliness compared to other districts are well worth it.

DCA writer Oct 6, 2015 12:55 am


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25521013)
I signed a lease for a place in Clarendon. Thanks all for the advise! It is a few hundred dollars more a month than other places in Arlington, but the location and liveliness compared to other districts are well worth it.

Welcome to the neighborhood! It's not too soon to get acquainted with the staff at Iota and the Galaxy Hut.

dchristiva Oct 7, 2015 2:17 pm

All things considered, that's a good choice. Should be a fun experience for you. Just make sure you get into D.C. from time to time.

IADCAflyer Oct 23, 2015 3:41 am


Originally Posted by DCA writer (Post 25523865)
Welcome to the neighborhood! It's not too soon to get acquainted with the staff at Iota and the Galaxy Hut.

Hah! Galaxy Slut. Oh, are there memories from that place.... :D

TOMFORD Nov 5, 2015 8:39 am

Any recommendations on where to go near Clarendon to get grocery (preferably via metro or walking)? I don't like Whole Foods.

DeafFlyer Nov 5, 2015 9:06 am


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25667398)
Any recommendations on where to go near Clarendon to get grocery (preferably via metro or walking)? I don't like Whole Foods.

There's a Giant near Virginia Square.

DCA writer Nov 5, 2015 5:38 pm


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25667398)
Any recommendations on where to go near Clarendon to get grocery (preferably via metro or walking)? I don't like Whole Foods.

Trader Joe's is across the corner from the Clarendon Metro. The lines can get crazy, but they're professional about getting people through them quickly. (Some airports could learn from that!)

You want to go where? Nov 5, 2015 9:21 pm


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25667398)
Any recommendations on where to go near Clarendon to get grocery (preferably via metro or walking)? I don't like Whole Foods.

The Courthouse parking lot has a great Farmer's Market on Saturday mornings.

TOMFORD Nov 8, 2015 11:12 am


Originally Posted by DCA writer (Post 25669908)
Trader Joe's is across the corner from the Clarendon Metro. The lines can get crazy, but they're professional about getting people through them quickly. (Some airports could learn from that!)

Never been to a Trader Joe's before - what are the prices like compared to typical supermarkets?

DCA writer Nov 8, 2015 11:51 am


Originally Posted by TOMFORD (Post 25681531)
Never been to a Trader Joe's before - what are the prices like compared to typical supermarkets?

Good to terrific, depending on what you're buying. A lot of their inventory is their own brand (under ethnically varied spellings as the kind of food warrants, such as "Trader Giotto's" pasta and "Trader Jose's" salsa), and that's all been high-quality stuff in my experience. They're a great deal for wine and beer, although the "Two-Buck Chuck" Charles Shaw is nowhere as good as some people say.

What they don't have is deli, seafood or meat counters; you're stuck with prepackaged items in those categories.

They also don't carry name-brand soda or tonic water of any kind, a failing shared with Whole Foods. To get that without driving or biking out of the neighborhood, there's a good little store called Streets Market in the same new apartment complex at Pershing and 50 that has a Bonchon Chicken.

And I'll second You want to go where?'s endorsement of the farmers market. I've been going there every Saturday that I've been in town for about the past 18 years.

TOMFORD Nov 8, 2015 12:16 pm

Thanks! I will definitely be visiting the farmer's market on Saturdays. The Trader Joe's sounds very convenient given its location, so no doubt I'll be stopping by there often.

GUWonder Nov 8, 2015 12:34 pm

Safeway in Rosslyn? Out of the way from Clarendon (unless swinging by Rosslyn anyway), but it's had good pricing sometimes.


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