LHCVG

I wouldn't disagree on any of that; 99.99% of flights are not like that joke about some UA flights to China, where the outbound belly cargo to the U.S. made the inbound leg from the U.S. profitable. So my assumption is always that there are two ends to every flight by definition, even if it is nominally in an operational sense running "from" City A "to" City B.

The thing that I find interesting about the purported AA strategy is that they are leveraging this exact dynamic, and garnering some marginal loyalty at some of these outstations in the process. Side comment, but I have long felt UA has been missing out a bit by not doing the focus City thing that AA and DL do/did.

djp98374

those routes are also catering to international travelers thru jfk.

M60_to_LGA

Do international travelers really transit JFK to reach the Caribbean in large numbers?

I can see it making sense for Canadians in major markets, but otherwise I'm having a hard time seeing it. There are enough charter operators in Europe that travel to these kinds of destinations, plus BA/IB/AF, etc...

amanuensis

Of course that typically is the case, but cities on the east coast are so close that I have often flown into one city for meetings and then driven or taken the train to a different city or cities for more meetings and thus flew out of some city other than the one I arrived at.

djp98374

european travelers.

many countries fly to nyc and lax and maybe 1-2 other airports.

it makes sense to run these flights from jfk. Some split time seeing nyc and other spot.

LHCVG

Different markets here, but similar working premises: the AF onward services offered at both MIA and LAX. Obviously these are somewhat akin to QF's LAX-JFK in that they explicitly target through travel (is it still the case that the QF transcon's still can't market local U.S. traffic?), but I figure if the market weren't of sufficient size, you wouldn't see AF operate those mini-bases. At least in MIA, they have one or a couple Airbii based there with (I would presume) at least a few aircrew nominally based down there to bounce around the Caribbean "triangle" they do (unless those trips are all done as rotations for TATL AF crews over a few days before heading back home, which seems complicated to me).

drewguy

Just how much cash can a restaurant generate? Enough to fund a C/D concourse in about 160 years?

drewguy

Aren't those Caribbean routes out of JFK because LGA doesn't have FIS facilities?

As for European travelers, why wouldn't they fly via Miami?

M60_to_LGA

Why wouldn't they fly nonstop from Europe? You can get to pretty much any island you want via London, Paris, Madrid, or Amsterdam (likely on a nonstop), and you don't have to deal with US immigration nonsense.

djp98374

many vacationers als9 want to see nyc as part of their USA or Carribean trip.

many international carriers fly to nyc as main US entry point from Europe when trying to fly direct.

thise in partnerships like with say United usually fly to a few of their hub cities then connect with United flights. It’s hard for different airlines in Europe to fly everywhere.

then you have the cost issue of direct, where it’s outside of price range. In the US airlines offer east coast to hawaii directs. The prices are higher .it’s cheaper to say split book east to west open jaw Then west-hawaii open jaw.

earlier this year I flew on AA route of JFK-JAC. The plane was half full if that because if the international loss of travelers.

IADCAflyer

Yeah, if there is -one- city that a small/medium EU carrier is going to fly to the USA, NYC is usually that choice.

Section 107

It would be not just a restaurant but also observation deck, and club. Of course that wouldn't ever be enough to fund a new terminal, but what I was told is that informal estimates are that it would generate millions in net income to MWAA, especially if one can get to it without needing a boarding pass (which is firmly in the plans should it come to pass). I dont think it would get to the double digits, but even $2-5m would impact enplanement costs. It would certainly be a destination in and of itself, especially complementing a visit to Udvar-Hazy, which in turn could be combined with other shopping activities and other suggested/planned uses of airport land. And a new club is currently under development in the ground level areas below the tower which are also estimated to being in the seven-figure range per year so it is not unreasonable.

LHCVG

This is it -- it wouldn't be a moneymaker in terms of profit off the steaks and burgers and wine, it would be an enthusiast/tourist trap at accompanying price points. I love the idea of offering a combo with Udvar-Hazy Center entrance (maybe a parking waiver or something)!

drewguy

Construction complete on the Metro line! https://dcist.com/story/21/11/04/sil...ulles-loudoun/

But ~ 6 months of testing . . .

UKtravelbear

6 months sounds about right for acceptance testing and training etc. Plus all those snagging lists to sort out.

Crossrail / Elizabeth Line in London is ts 6 months of testing etc as well.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...rations-phase/