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Old Aug 18, 2018, 9:00 pm
  #1  
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Travel Package - Class Action?

For those of you that were harmed by damages from the travel package conversion; could you please post:
a) estimated value
b) what you were told by Marriott phone representatives
c) interest in being a lead plaintiff (typically $10k-$50k in "incentive payment")
d) what seems like a fair solution
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Old Aug 18, 2018, 9:19 pm
  #2  
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Knock yourself out, but there are some contractual terms in Marriott's favor.
Modification. The Operators may change these Terms and Conditions at any time, for any reason and without notice.

Limitation of Liability. IN NO EVENT WILL AN OPERATOR, ANY SPG PARTICIPATING HOTEL OR ANY HOTEL PARTICIPATING IN THE REWARDS PROGRAMS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, WHICH ARISE OUT OF OR ARE IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH THE BENEFITS PROVIDED PURSUANT TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OR THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

Choice of Law and Venue. Any disputes arising out of or related to the benefits provided pursuant to these Terms and Conditions or these Terms and Conditions will be handled individually without any class action, and will be governed by, construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of the State of New York, United States, without regard to its conflicts of law rules. The exclusive jurisdiction for any claim or action arising out of or relating to these Terms and Conditions may be filed only in the state or federal courts located in the State of New York, United States.
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Old Aug 18, 2018, 9:51 pm
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Almost every consumer facing company has similar boilerplate terms, many courts have found them not enforceable when they contradict other consumer protection laws and/or involve fradulent misrepresentation /inducement.

As you know you can’t contractually waive certain rights nor can you immunize against illegal behavior, particularly in a one-way T&C form.
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Last edited by silverforumsurf; Aug 19, 2018 at 12:41 am
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Old Aug 18, 2018, 10:27 pm
  #4  
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Originally Posted by silverforumsurf
Not sure where you got your JD but as you know you can’t contractually waive certain rights nor can you immunize against illegal behavior, particularly in a one-way T&C form.
No JD, just pointing out that there are some obstacles that will have to be overcome.

The message board-lawyering may continue.
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Old Aug 18, 2018, 10:32 pm
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Originally Posted by silverforumsurf
Almost every consumer facing company has similar boilerplate terms, many courts have found them not enforceable when they contradict other consumer protection laws and/or involve fradulent misrepresentation /inducement.

Not sure where you got your JD but as you know you can’t contractually waive certain rights nor can you immunize against illegal behavior, particularly in a one-way T&C form.
uhhhh. the courts have found that when it comes to loyalty programs promises of things like "lifetime" dont REALLY mean lifetime, so I doubt there are going to give to much weight to your claims with a revaluation or award certificates in a merger.

But by all means, go for the lead plaintiff position yourself if you feel so strongly about it...
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Old Aug 18, 2018, 10:39 pm
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So is this a real lawyer that is openly soliciting on FT to start a class action suit?

I read the last few pages on this in the Marriott forum. Some people were saying that they thought after the conversion that they could have gotten the certificate for 30K points less or something like that. Why can't they just cancel the certificate and have Marriott issue them a new one? Why does this necessitate a class action lawsuit? 30K points is valued at about $300 isn't it?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really don't know why this justifies a class action. Marriott devalues points all the time at different hotels. It sounds like in some cases they did that again here. I don't understand why this time is different.
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 12:00 am
  #7  
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Originally Posted by jeanie
So is this a real lawyer that is openly soliciting on FT to start a class action suit?

I read the last few pages on this in the Marriott forum. Some people were saying that they thought after the conversion that they could have gotten the certificate for 30K points less or something like that. Why can't they just cancel the certificate and have Marriott issue them a new one? Why does this necessitate a class action lawsuit? 30K points is valued at about $300 isn't it?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really don't know why this justifies a class action. Marriott devalues points all the time at different hotels. It sounds like in some cases they did that again here. I don't understand why this time is different.
Sadly the solution you suggested does not exist (at least not yet). We can't just "cancel it and get a new one". But again you value 30K points at about $300 (lol) so you don't seem to know much about the system anyways.
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 12:19 am
  #8  
 
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Originally Posted by silverforumsurf
For those of you that were harmed by damages from the travel package conversion; could you please post:
a) estimated value
b) what you were told by Marriott phone representatives
c) interest in being a lead plaintiff (typically $10k-$50k in "incentive payment")
d) what seems like a fair solution
The fair solution is that Marriott is a business and all those complaining are doing so because they didn't read the situation properly. There is no class action here IMHO.
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 12:25 am
  #9  
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Originally Posted by pharmawalk
those complaining are doing so because they didn't read the situation properly.
And some of the complainants tried to arbitrage the conversion rate and guessed wrong.
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 1:37 am
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Everyone wasn’t gambling with the travel packages.
We can blame Marriott or ourselves or the bloggers or each and every FT posters.
Yet, this was always going to be the outcome: some happy and some mad.
Welcome to the Loyalty Game. ��
Plus, if you feel lied to or played, best to choose another hotel chain and hope for better treatment (which likely you won’t get at some point).
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 2:07 am
  #11  
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Originally Posted by dayone
And some of the complainants tried to arbitrage the conversion rate and guessed wrong.
The arbitrage game was stacked in Marriott’s favor. And even this temp block on certificate application and multi-step redemption pricing change hitting legacy travel package certificates holders was meant to fleece Marriotts’ customers as much as possible while giving Marriott a PC/PR angle to play to try to justify its anti-consumer moves in this regard — moves that hit the big point collectors more than the small point fish. Not that Marriott cares in this environment.

Marriott plays in an international playground, and that means class action and other litigation possibilities in the US aren’t its only potential legal exposure from this game of Marriott’s making.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 19, 2018 at 4:58 am
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 3:02 am
  #12  
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It's only in the US where corporations are given free right to do whatever they write in their terms and conditions. In countries that still care to balance the right of individuals vs corporations, as in the EU countries, there many laws set to assert individual rights against arbitrary corporate actions.and trump the terms and conditions.
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 3:10 am
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by MasterGeek
It's only in the US where corporations are given free right to do whatever they write in their terms and conditions. In countries that still care to balance the right of individuals vs corporations, as in the EU countries, there many laws set to assert individual rights against arbitrary corporate actions.and trump the terms and conditions.
+1 - agree entirely
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 5:07 am
  #14  
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Originally Posted by MasterGeek
It's only in the US where corporations are given free right to do whatever they write in their terms and conditions. In countries that still care to balance the right of individuals vs corporations, as in the EU countries, there many laws set to assert individual rights against arbitrary corporate actions.and trump the terms and conditions.
Marriott is probably willing to eat the risk/cost of adverse legal/regulatory decisions in smaller national marketplaces and even the EU as a whole, as fleecing the American consumers may be seen as rewarding enough to Marriott that the risk and cost of losing a class action litigation in the US on such matter is simply business as usual in the US and worth way more to a well-insured Marriott than avoiding the risk entirely.

While the EU is more consumer friendly in ways than the US, the compensatory and punitive damage amounts in the EU tend to be a joke in the overall picture of things. There are exceptions, of course.

Marriott acts as a travel agent of sorts in the EU when selling travel packages using Marriott points, and that does open some avenues of legal challenge to Marriott moves.
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Old Aug 19, 2018, 8:15 am
  #15  
 
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Originally Posted by rog92
But again you value 30K points at about $300 (lol) so you don't seem to know much about the system anyways.
Actually, some bloggers value MR points at $0.01 or $0.009 per point. So using that conversion, 30K = $300. If you buy MR points from Marriott, it has cost $12.50 per 1000 points in the past. Using that conversion, 30K points = $375. Others put a value of $0.007 per point. It depends on who you talk to. I realize you are a relative newbie on this board, but 30K MR for $300 is a realistic average depending on which method you choose to use.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/rewa...rriott-points/

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/sep...ly-valuations/
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