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Old Dec 8, 2018, 7:33 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by EuropeanPete


I am actually based in Paris at the moment and as i’m not in the 8th district despite being in the centre of the city (4th) there has been no visible sign of the protests apart from watching local tv. For the time being at least one can think of this as an 8th district Saturdays problem.

There’s a good chance that whatever happens in the next few hours will tell you if things are actually escalating in a way which raises concerns about 3 weeks from now.
Am in the 7th tower and my market is on Ave Wilson, yes there was no market today, but life is normal, even though they are going down Ave Marceau a friend who lives there said it wasn’t bad. She will be going out for a walk after lunch.

If if you are still here, let’s meet up.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 8:48 am
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For a resident, disruptions in one part of the city or the closure of certain attractions for short period of time isn't something to be overly concerned about. Although I wouldn't be at all concerned for my family's safety in Paris, that doesn't mean that if this was the only time I planned to visit that I wouldn't prefer to wait until after the current protests subside. Even if what his wife is afraid of isn't something that many of us would be concerned about, that doesn't mean that a spouse shouldn't respect those feelings. My suggestion would be to contact providers to see what it would cost to reschedule the trip for a later time. Civil unrest is not normally covered by travel insurance.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 9:51 am
  #18  
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I agree with what so many others are saying: it almost certainly will be fine to stay in Paris over the holidays. The protests are limited to a very small area in the city, so I don’t think there is any real risk of actual danger to the OP and his family. If the protests continue, which isn’t likely for 3 weeks, the chance that a few tourist spots may be closed is certainly not enough to convince me to not visit nor to allow one to get out of a non-refundable hotel stay.

It’s not a lot different than if there were a not unlikely work stoppage due to yet another union strike in Paris, actually. A little annoying to us as travelers and visitors, but usually not that big a deal.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 10:13 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
I agree with what so many others are saying: it almost certainly will be fine to stay in Paris over the holidays. The protests are limited to a very small area in the city, so I don’t think there is any real risk of actual danger to the OP and his family. If the protests continue, which isn’t likely for 3 weeks, the chance that a few tourist spots may be closed is certainly not enough to convince me to not visit nor to allow one to get out of a non-refundable hotel stay.

It’s not a lot different than if there were a not unlikely work stoppage due to yet another union strike in Paris, actually. A little annoying to us as travelers and visitors, but usually not that big a deal.
Transport worker strikers are way more disruptive to my Paris visits than this Yellow Vest+ protest thing has been. The news makes its money by putting out news that grabs an audience and keeps an audience -- that means bad news and its worst aspects sells more than a "it's 99.9+% fine except for certain days of the week when it's 99% fine and even better if you just check out the websites of the sites you want to see".
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 12:37 pm
  #20  
 
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It would be a great opportunity to teach your children about Socialism.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 12:42 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by JackE
It would be a great opportunity to teach your children about Socialism.
France isn’t a socialist nation. It’s more commonly referred to a Democratic Socialist nation—with an economy mixing capitalism with significant (socialist) regulations on those capitalistic markets. Much like most of Western Europe, and especially the Northern/Scandinavian European countries.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 3:02 pm
  #22  
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Outside of the US, nobody would call France either a socialist or democratic socialist country as it has nothing in common with countries which actually are socialist or which are governed by socialist parties. Also, outside the US nobody else thinks market regulations are socialist (in fact, they’re usually seen as the opposite - socialism doesn’t regulate markets as it intervenes directly).

Democratic socialism generally refers to something more like Venezuela, which the internationalist market-led mixed economy of France really has nothing in common with.

As with a recent thread which shall remain nameless I of course have no issue with US vocabulary and use it for many things myself, but i’d suggest more cultural awareness when labelling others with terms they wouldn’t recognise.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 3:12 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Collierkr
This is the risk in booking non-refundable. If you have travel nsurance then maybe you can get out of it. Otherwise, I agree that Paris will be much better than Detroit.
This. For 10 or 20 bucks more, you can almost always just book refundable and avoid all of these risks. That extra money is what compensates the hotel for holding your room reservation even though you might cancel only a day or two in advance (depending on cancellation terms).

Consider that your "insurance payment" for future hotel reservations... Safer than relying on travel insurance that won't pay out unless the hotel closes or formal govt advice is given against travelling to Paris. (won't happen)
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 3:48 pm
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Originally Posted by EuropeanPete
Outside of the US, nobody would call France either a socialist or democratic socialist country as it has nothing in common with countries which actually are socialist or which are governed by socialist parties. Also, outside the US nobody else thinks market regulations are socialist (in fact, they’re usually seen as the opposite - socialism doesn’t regulate markets as it intervenes directly).

Democratic socialism generally refers to something more like Venezuela, which the internationalist market-led mixed economy of France really has nothing in common with.

As with a recent thread which shall remain nameless I of course have no issue with US vocabulary and use it for many things myself, but i’d suggest more cultural awareness when labelling others with terms they wouldn’t recognise.
In your view, is France more capitalist or socialist?
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 3:56 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by JackE
In your view, is France more capitalist or socialist?
We’re obviously getting massively off thread here, but capitalism is an economic system whereas socialism is a political one. As a member of the European Union France is subject to the same open capital system, limited govt intervention and fair competition rules as everyone else.

It’s like asking if a Christmas tree is more plant, decoration or green.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 4:10 pm
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While I realize that the majority of Paris is not affected by the protests, as a tourist, a lot of the sites I would want to visit are closed. Maybe that is one of the things the OP is referring to as well. My guess is that this was done on purpose by the protesters to increase pressure on leaders in France.

The closure of major tourist attractions in Paris could definitely affect a vacation. I went to Berlin a couple of years ago, and planned day trips via train to Potsdam and Poland. Then when I got there, there was a Deutsche Bahn strike. While I appreciate there were bigger issues at stake for the locals, it was a big disappointment to me. The train I was going to take from Amsterdam to Berlin was cancelled, I had to buy a last minute flight at top prices, and I wasn't able to go to Poland.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 4:12 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by EuropeanPete
Outside of the US, nobody would call France either a socialist or democratic socialist country as it has nothing in common with countries which actually are socialist or which are governed by socialist parties. Also, outside the US nobody else thinks market regulations are socialist (in fact, they’re usually seen as the opposite - socialism doesn’t regulate markets as it intervenes directly).

Democratic socialism generally refers to something more like Venezuela, which the internationalist market-led mixed economy of France really has nothing in common with.

As with a recent thread which shall remain nameless I of course have no issue with US vocabulary and use it for many things myself, but i’d suggest more cultural awareness when labelling others with terms they wouldn’t recognise.
This may be a useful counterpoint:

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/read...801-story.html
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 4:48 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jeanie
While I realize that the majority of Paris is not affected by the protests, as a tourist, a lot of the sites I would want to visit are closed. Maybe that is one of the things the OP is referring to as well. My guess is that this was done on purpose by the protesters to increase pressure on leaders in France.

The closure of major tourist attractions in Paris could definitely affect a vacation. .
This fact dawned on me on October 11th when the major tourist attractions in Athens were closed due to a strike. We were only in Athens for 4 days and of course, October 11th was the date we had a long scheduled private tour of the Acropolis. Almost all of the major sites were closed including Delphi which we were relieved to have toured the day prior. That trip required more advance planning and had we scheduled for 10/11 it would have been a major disappointment. We were lucky that we were able to switch the Acropolis to the 12th but I did think about less fortunate travelers who potentially lost a (possibly once in a lifetime) chance to visit such iconic sites.

The list of closures in Paris is actually quite extensive:
Aquarium tropical de la Porte Dorée

Arc de Triomphe

Basilique cathédrale de Saint-Denis

Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris

Cathédrale Saint-Louis des Invalides

Centre Pompidou

Chapelle expiatoire

Ch teau de Versailles

Ch teau de Vincennes

Cité de l'Architecture et du Patrimoine

Cité des Sciences et de l'Industrie

Conciergerie

Crypte archéologique de l’île de la Cité

Domaine national du Palais-royal

Fondation Louis Vuitton

Fondation Cartier Bresson

Fondation Cartier pour l’art contemporain

Hôtel National des Invalides

Hôtel de Sully

Institut du Monde Arabe

Jardin des Tuileries

Galeries Nationales du Grand Palais

Les Catacombes

Maison de Victor Hugo

Musée Cernuschi

Musée Cognacq-Jay

Musée d’Art moderne de la ville de Paris

Musée d’Art et d'Histoire du Judaïsme

Musée des Arts et Métiers

Musée d'Orsay

Musée de la Franc Maçonnerie

Musée de la Musique

Musée de l'Armée

Musée de l'Homme

Musée de l'Orangerie

Musée de l'Ordre de la Libération

Musée du Jeu de Paume

Musée du quai Branly – Jacques Chirac

Musée Eugène Delacroix

Musée Jacquemart-André

Musée du Louvre

Musée du Luxembourg

Musée du Parfum Fragonard

Musée des Plans-reliefs

Musée Marmottan Monet

Musée national des arts asiatiques Guimet

Musée national de l'Histoire de l'Immigration

Musée Nissim de Camondo

Musée Picasso Paris

Musée Rodin

Opéra Bastille

Palais de la Découverte

Palais Garnier

Palais de Tokyo

Panthéon

Pavillon de l'Arsenal

Petit Palais - Musée des Beaux-Arts de la ville de Paris

Sainte-Chapelle

Sèvres-Cité de la Céramique

Tombeau de Napoléon et Eglise du Dôme

Tour Eiffel

Tour Montparnasse

Tours de Notre-Dame de Paris

Zoo de Thoiry

Theatre

Accorhotels Arena

Comédie Française - Salle Richelieu

Comédie Française - Studio-Thé tre

Comédie Française - Thé tre du Vieux-Colombier

Cité de la Musique

Crazy Horse

Grande halle de La Villette

L'Olympia

Lido de Paris

Maison de la Radio

Philharmonie de Paris

Salle Pleyel

Thé tre des Champs-Élysées

Thé tre de l'Odéon

Thé tre Marigny

Thé tre du Rond-Point

Restaurants

58 Tour Eiffel

Restaurants on the Avenue des Champs-Élysées and in the surroundings

Restaurants on the rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré

Guided tours

Another Paris - Le petit train bleu

Big Bus

City Sightseeing

Foxity

OpenTour

PARISCityVISION

Promotrain - Le Petit Train de Montmartre

Shopping

BHV MARAIS

Boutiques de l'avenue des Champs-Elysées

Boutiques de la rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré

Le Bon Marché

Galeries Lafayette (Haussmann et Montparnasse)

Lafayette Maison Gourmet

Printemps

Events

Festival électro, Peacock Xmas Party

Noël des animaux

Festival électro INASOUND


And it isn't just the 8th:
Despite the police controls, some of the protection built by stores and offices were destroyed and several cars set ablaze, mainly in some of the wealthiest neighborhoods - the 16th and 17th arrondissements - as police played cat-and-mouse with small groups of violent protesters around those and other central areas. The protesters started as a peaceful movement against a proposed increase in gas and diesel and has unexpectedly grown into massive anti-government demonstrations expressing general anger and disillusionment with the government and the cost of living. It has turned violent from the participation of more aggressive activists and fringe elements known as “casseurs”(smashers and looters).

There are many of us on this board who have visited Paris frequently. We would be less likely to have our trip ruined because of random closures. But even Saturday closures will impact visits during the rest of the week. (everything will be much more crowded)

Many people I know make one trip to Paris ever. If the hotel is flexible at all OP may want to reschedule the trip if possible.

ITA with others here that this is the reason I never go for nonrefundable hotel rates. I too consider the premium my "insurance" against last minute cancellations.

I also agree with the Poster who praised OP for considering his wife's feelings. Whether her fears are valid or not, if she is nervous about the trip it also could impact their vacation.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 6:37 pm
  #29  
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It might be useful to try to list some things that are apparently open. Fontainebleau and the department store in the 7th appear to be open, plus the mosque (in the 5th?), botanical gardens, Luxembourg gardens, the St Germain church (6th), rue Mouftard market, the mineral museum in Ecole des Mines (6th, very limited hours and IIRC closed on Saturday anyway), the pedestrian bridge (does it still have the locks of love?) near the Louvre, the cemeteries, the aviation museum near CDG,.....

I don't see Bateau Mouches and similar on the list, but they might not operate in the winter. Also, I think there are some outfits that organize walking tours of Paris not on the list of guided tours that aren't operating.

It also looks like public transportation to/from airports is operating.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 8:59 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
It might be useful to try to list some things that are apparently open. Fontainebleau and the department store in the 7th appear to be open, plus the mosque (in the 5th?), botanical gardens, Luxembourg gardens, the St Germain church (6th), rue Mouftard market, the mineral museum in Ecole des Mines (6th, very limited hours and IIRC closed on Saturday anyway), the pedestrian bridge (does it still have the locks of love?) near the Louvre, the cemeteries, the aviation museum near CDG,.....

I don't see Bateau Mouches and similar on the list, but they might not operate in the winter. Also, I think there are some outfits that organize walking tours of Paris not on the list of guided tours that aren't operating.

It also looks like public transportation to/from airports is operating.

Moulin Rouge ?

I don’t think they will give up the 💰
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