Marriott Bonvoy? (Potential new program leak)
#346
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They might be able to pull it off if ... they communicated more information and set expectations.
#347
In memoriam
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As the fire-starter of this 5*/4* argument I’m struggling to see how my point can possibly be misunderstood and so diverted, other than there’s a need to “pile in” and then protect a position no matter how fragile. Of course what happened was I accidentally touched an FT nerve, namely that “what is 5*” question. Sorry about that.
I pointed out that with 30 brands Marriott now needed to ensure brand adherence more than ever before, but had allowed significant variation within its brands. That a Marriott or Renaissance in Asia is frequently classified as 5* when most properties branded as Marriott or Renaissance stateside are 3.5*-4* at best. No fiction, no hyperbole, see Marriotts website, see the official info. I was then pulled apart by arguments defining of 3* or 5* so I tried to offer an obvious comparison, JW and Intercontinental, both 5* American brands, both met or outclassed by Marriotts Asian offerings. Then we ended up with peoples personal definition of what 5* is or isn’t. The point I was making was ignored by those seemingly wilfully determined to argue just to prevail.
Anyone who has stayed at the Shanghai City Centre Marriott and the New York Marriott Marquis will attest they obvious difference between the two. In the bedroom, Decor, furnishing, finish, all far superior in the Shanghai version, in the bathroom, Marble with separate soaker bath and shower cubicle, as opposed to the cracked tiling and crappy mini American tub with shower over. Exec lounge - gosh that’s embarrassing, the difference between these two lounges is beyond belief for supposedly the same brand, but let’s try, Shanghai, proper food, at least 2 hot meats, plus 2 hot carbs, plus full and varied salads and desserts and free alcohol, beers, wines, hard liquor served 5 hours every night, 7 days a week. NYC, sad food offering, no free alcohol, desserts consisting of cookies, small lounge closed at weekends. Let’s look at restaurant breakfast, Shanghai, almost every type of breakfast from all over the world, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, European, British, American, heck it even serves Ice cream which I’m taking as Antarctican! Numerous chefs cooking to order. NYC Marquis breakfast offering, well it’s not bad, but nowhere near the breadth and quality offered at the Shanghai Marriott, cereals, some fruit and cold meats, bacon, powdered eggs and breakfast potatoes in a heater. The 2 hotels are as chalk and cheese, the only reason I knew they were the same brand was the sign over the door and my folio! I just take these two, but this difference is repeated across Asia compared to America.
And thats all I was saying. Marriott allows significant brand divergence within the brands themselves, yet with 30 brands needs the opposite to preserve differentials between different brands. Agree or disagree with the statement but really, honestly, the 5*/4* confected row... Why?
I pointed out that with 30 brands Marriott now needed to ensure brand adherence more than ever before, but had allowed significant variation within its brands. That a Marriott or Renaissance in Asia is frequently classified as 5* when most properties branded as Marriott or Renaissance stateside are 3.5*-4* at best. No fiction, no hyperbole, see Marriotts website, see the official info. I was then pulled apart by arguments defining of 3* or 5* so I tried to offer an obvious comparison, JW and Intercontinental, both 5* American brands, both met or outclassed by Marriotts Asian offerings. Then we ended up with peoples personal definition of what 5* is or isn’t. The point I was making was ignored by those seemingly wilfully determined to argue just to prevail.
Anyone who has stayed at the Shanghai City Centre Marriott and the New York Marriott Marquis will attest they obvious difference between the two. In the bedroom, Decor, furnishing, finish, all far superior in the Shanghai version, in the bathroom, Marble with separate soaker bath and shower cubicle, as opposed to the cracked tiling and crappy mini American tub with shower over. Exec lounge - gosh that’s embarrassing, the difference between these two lounges is beyond belief for supposedly the same brand, but let’s try, Shanghai, proper food, at least 2 hot meats, plus 2 hot carbs, plus full and varied salads and desserts and free alcohol, beers, wines, hard liquor served 5 hours every night, 7 days a week. NYC, sad food offering, no free alcohol, desserts consisting of cookies, small lounge closed at weekends. Let’s look at restaurant breakfast, Shanghai, almost every type of breakfast from all over the world, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, European, British, American, heck it even serves Ice cream which I’m taking as Antarctican! Numerous chefs cooking to order. NYC Marquis breakfast offering, well it’s not bad, but nowhere near the breadth and quality offered at the Shanghai Marriott, cereals, some fruit and cold meats, bacon, powdered eggs and breakfast potatoes in a heater. The 2 hotels are as chalk and cheese, the only reason I knew they were the same brand was the sign over the door and my folio! I just take these two, but this difference is repeated across Asia compared to America.
And thats all I was saying. Marriott allows significant brand divergence within the brands themselves, yet with 30 brands needs the opposite to preserve differentials between different brands. Agree or disagree with the statement but really, honestly, the 5*/4* confected row... Why?
Last edited by BrightlyBob; Dec 8, 2018 at 5:47 pm
#348
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,324
Perhaps but ... I suspect they are trying to get the legacy SPG hotels off of the Lightspeed platform on to Marsha. That's obviously still in process and I suspect delayed because some IT resources have been diverted to the data breach issue. They can't move to a rebranding until hotels are able to see the difference between a Plat and a Plat Premier/Titantium/Ambassador -- and they can't right now. Of course, at the same time, training a Sheraton/Westin/FP/LC/W front desk that there is a Plat Premier level and then changing the name to Titanium and making Ambassador a distinct status level (as opposed to a benefit) doesn't make sense either.
They might be able to pull it off if ... they communicated more information and set expectations.
They might be able to pull it off if ... they communicated more information and set expectations.
#349
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Anyone who has stayed at the Shanghai City Centre Marriott and the New York Marriott Marquis will attest they obvious difference between the two. In the bedroom, Decor, furnishing, finish, all far superior in the Shanghai version, in the bathroom, Marble with separate soaker bath and shower cubicle, as opposed to the cracked tiling and crappy mini American tub with shower over. Exec lounge - gosh that’s embarrassing, the difference between these two lounges is beyond belief for supposedly the same brand, but let’s try, Shanghai, proper food, at least 2 hot meats, plus 2 hot carbs, plus full and varied salads and desserts and free alcohol, beers, wines, hard liquor served 5 hours every night, 7 days a week. NYC, sad food offering, no free alcohol, desserts consisting of cookies, small lounge closed at weekends. Let’s look at restaurant breakfast, Shanghai, almost every type of breakfast from all over the world, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, European, British, American, heck it even serves Ice cream which I’m taking as Antarctican! Numerous chefs cooking to order. NYC Marquis breakfast offering, well it’s not bad, but nowhere near the breadth and quality offered at the Shanghai Marriott, cereals, some fruit and cold meats, bacon, powdered eggs and breakfast potatoes in a heater. The 2 hotels are as chalk and cheese, the only reason I knew they were the same brand was the sign over the door and my folio! I just take these two, but this difference is repeated across Asia compared to America.
And thats all I was saying. Marriott allows significant brand divergence within the brands themselves, yet with 30 brands needs the opposite to preserve differentials between different brands. Agree or disagree with the statement but really, honestly, the 5*/4* confected row... Why?
And thats all I was saying. Marriott allows significant brand divergence within the brands themselves, yet with 30 brands needs the opposite to preserve differentials between different brands. Agree or disagree with the statement but really, honestly, the 5*/4* confected row... Why?
This is the problem when the majority of your hotels are franchised and operated by third-party management companies. Quality control and brand consistency suffers. McDonald's manages to maintain consistency, but they are strict on standards. When I'm not at an airport flying I'm behind a wheel driving. I've been to every McDonald's almost every McDonald's on the I-75 corridor from Monroe to Sault Ste. Marie. I routinely see corporate managers and inspectors checking on franchisees.
#350
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
I agree 100%. This is very, very frustrating. It's not like the New York Marriott Marquis is a random airport Marriott in the middle of no-where. This is literally Marriott's flagship Marriott property in New York City. The Renaissance Times Square is another example. It's a good two stars below say the Renaissance Paris Republique, Renaissance Dubai or even the Renaissance Paris Arc de Triomphe, which is in a similar touristy area as Times Square.
This is the problem when the majority of your hotels are franchised and operated by third-party management companies. Quality control and brand consistency suffers. McDonald's manages to maintain consistency, but they are strict on standards. When I'm not at an airport flying I'm behind a wheel driving. I've been to every McDonald's almost every McDonald's on the I-75 corridor from Monroe to Sault Ste. Marie. I routinely see corporate managers and inspectors checking on franchisees.
This is the problem when the majority of your hotels are franchised and operated by third-party management companies. Quality control and brand consistency suffers. McDonald's manages to maintain consistency, but they are strict on standards. When I'm not at an airport flying I'm behind a wheel driving. I've been to every McDonald's almost every McDonald's on the I-75 corridor from Monroe to Sault Ste. Marie. I routinely see corporate managers and inspectors checking on franchisees.
The issue isn't brand standards as a general matter -- the issue is they aren't really inspected to confirm they are providing program benefits. A Medallia survey of Plat Premiers and higher on every stay would fix that issue quickly.
And thats all I was saying. Marriott allows significant brand divergence within the brands themselves, yet with 30 brands needs the opposite to preserve differentials between different brands. Agree or disagree with the statement but really, honestly, the 5*/4* confected row... Why?
#351
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
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Getting back to the topic at hand.... I don't see any issue with the leak of the Bonvoy name, or the name, itself. In the long run, neither the name nor the premature disclosure is going to matter. The name is what it is, and the disclosure will be forgotten. It's still the same program, regardless of what they call it. I don't see anyone making a stay/no stay decision based on the name of a hotel's affinity program. Exxon was, quite literally, a meaningless collection of letters that the Board of Directors thought sounded good when Standard Oil of New Jersey changed to it in the early 1970s. But everyone accepted it; and today nobody gives it a second thought.
#352
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,316
Exxon was originally planned to be Exon, a derivation of SONJ's geographically-restricted trademarked brands of Esso and Enco. The second "x" was added to ensure uniqueness.
#353
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I actually remember all of this. My father gave me one share of SONJ for my 7th or 8th birthday, and I used to follow the company meticulously.
Last edited by Dr. HFH; Dec 8, 2018 at 9:39 pm
#354
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,324
Getting back to the topic at hand.... I don't see any issue with the leak of the Bonvoy name, or the name, itself. In the long run, neither the name nor the premature disclosure is going to matter. The name is what it is, and the disclosure will be forgotten. It's still the same program, regardless of what they call it. I don't see anyone making a stay/no stay decision based on the name of a hotel's affinity program. Exxon was, quite literally, a meaningless collection of letters that the Board of Directors thought sounded good when Standard Oil of New Jersey changed to it in the early 1970s. But everyone accepted it; and today nobody gives it a second thought.
#355
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,316
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The company initially planned to change its name to "Exon", in keeping with the four-letter format of Enco and Esso.
#356
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: Delta 2MM/Diamond Elite, United 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium Elite/LT Platinum
Posts: 112
Regardless of whether one likes or dislikes the name, isn't it about time for an actual announcement to be made, given that it is now well into December?
#357
Join Date: Jan 2015
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"January X, 2019 - Marriott International is proud to celebrate the launch of our new loyalty program, Marriott Bonvoy/Whatever. We decided on the name and all corresponding details in August 2018 but there is no better time than now to debut our bold new brand. The rollout is immediate and everything changes right now."
khabah
#358
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No need; historical sources are available. And apparently both Wikipedia and I were incorrect about Governor Exon.
Link. You may recall that Loewy also designed such icons as the Air Force One paint scheme as well as logos for Shell, BP, TWA, Nabisco, Hoover, Studebaker, Lucky Strike, McDonald's, USPS, Pepsi, and Coca Cola, among many, many others. "designboom" is an daily international online magazine covering the fields of industrial design, architecture, and art.
Giddens, Paul H. "Historical Origins of the Adoption of the EXXON Name and Trademark." The Business History Review vol. 47, no. 3 (1973): page 365. Also Dougherty, Philip H., "Advertising: Esso To Be Exxon" The New York Times, May 10, 1972, page 75.
Here are some of Loewy's sketches of the name, from the Library of Congress:
Use of the Esso trademark was restricted in the United States, so Standard Oil of New Jersey (Jersey Standard) hired renowned industrial designer Raymond Loewy (1893-1986) to create a new name and logo for the brand. According to designboom, Loewy “proposed ‘exxon’ and came up with seventy-six rough pencil sketches based on the word, placing the visual emphasis on the double ‘x.’ The two x’s subliminally recalled the ‘ss’ in Esso and thus helped ease the transition from the old name to the new.”
Exxon was one of hundreds of names that came out of a computer and was then tested linguistically, psychologically, and for design potential.
Here are some of Loewy's sketches of the name, from the Library of Congress:
#359
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Exxon...nobody really cares. Take it to PM please.
#360
Join Date: Dec 2009
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For whatever it's worth, I checked out of a Westin today and sure enough, my account is reflected as above (SPG-Uxxxx).