Oct 16, 2018, 2:12 am
Last edit by: yosithezet
MODERATOR NOTE: While this thread exists for people to discuss the economics and merits of the Marriott strike, any discussion of the general merits of labor unions belongs in OMNI. Any posts which address other posters or characterise people using inflammatory language violates FlyerTalk Rules will be deleted without notice.
Contributions around the current atmosphere and service level at specific hotels can be found at https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-starwood-ritz-carlton-new-consolidated-program/1916714-property-experiences-during-marriott-workers-strike-fall-2018-a-2.html
Contributions around the current atmosphere and service level at specific hotels can be found at https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-starwood-ritz-carlton-new-consolidated-program/1916714-property-experiences-during-marriott-workers-strike-fall-2018-a-2.html
Merits of Marriott Hotels Strike 2018
Nov 16, 2018, 8:52 am
#152
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 592
You might think so, but as far as I understand (and I am not an expert), as long as it is after 7am (and before 11pm), it does not violate the law in Boston. I have no idea about OSHA regs.
This is getting way off topic. Let's bring it back to questions of Marriott Hotels, points etc., including which hotels are impacted and whether we recommend that our fellow FTers look for other options given the current realities. This is not where we are going to resolve political views regarding organized labor or the appropriateness of strikes as a tactic to resolve disputes.
This is getting way off topic. Let's bring it back to questions of Marriott Hotels, points etc., including which hotels are impacted and whether we recommend that our fellow FTers look for other options given the current realities. This is not where we are going to resolve political views regarding organized labor or the appropriateness of strikes as a tactic to resolve disputes.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...axL/story.html
Nov 16, 2018, 9:55 am
#153
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It is not illegal to replace workers during the strike and at some point binding arbitration comes into play and the unions DON"T want that. Have you noticed that they never never tell you what the real package is ? You should pull the wage package and read it line by line then tell me if they have better benefits than you do.
Nov 17, 2018, 5:58 pm
#154
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Was dropping off a friend at the Sheraton Waikiki for a military ball on Friday, Nov 16. First, surprised they were still having the ball at that hotel given the strike - but mostly surprised I didn't see a single striker at the hotel, don't know if they pause on a Friday night (it was 6:30pm) or paused for the military - but no strikers in sight.....
Nov 18, 2018, 10:33 pm
#155
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A business can always hire scabs, but once the strike is over, the scabs are history and won't be able to work at that business anytime soon. Many workers are fine with that, but hotels are loath to do it since it does take time to train people, and in many cases you're probably better off with a skeleton crew than to try and hire hundreds of people quickly and not being able to train them. Since a scab knows they're there for a short time, they're not going to put much effort into the job.
Strikes are always about much more than wages or a health plan, since jobs aren't just about money. Working conditions, management style, everything becomes part of a strike. A strike in and of itself is evidence of poor communication and mistrust between owners and employees.
Strikes are always about much more than wages or a health plan, since jobs aren't just about money. Working conditions, management style, everything becomes part of a strike. A strike in and of itself is evidence of poor communication and mistrust between owners and employees.
Nov 19, 2018, 7:42 am
#156
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Looks like the strikes will reach their conclusion over the next few weeks. Boston is settled, and only SF and Hawaii are left.
Nov 19, 2018, 4:01 pm
#157
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A business can always hire scabs, but once the strike is over, the scabs are history and won't be able to work at that business anytime soon. Many workers are fine with that, but hotels are loath to do it since it does take time to train people, and in many cases you're probably better off with a skeleton crew than to try and hire hundreds of people quickly and not being able to train them. Since a scab knows they're there for a short time, they're not going to put much effort into the job.
Strikes are always about much more than wages or a health plan, since jobs aren't just about money. Working conditions, management style, everything becomes part of a strike. A strike in and of itself is evidence of poor communication and mistrust between owners and employees.
Strikes are always about much more than wages or a health plan, since jobs aren't just about money. Working conditions, management style, everything becomes part of a strike. A strike in and of itself is evidence of poor communication and mistrust between owners and employees.
I am sorry but in the particular case it's about power and money. I have said this before what the union does not want you to see or focus is the oral package that package makes them more than the average worker in Hawaii that's a fact number one , two their health and welfare packages are higher than most workers in the US economy period thats a fact , so bad it's called the Cadillac policy . And look at vacation and pension. Have some coffee and read their packages closely. As far as scabs go they'll get work
Nov 19, 2018, 9:27 pm
#158
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On the news in Honolulu - Union rejected to Hotel's offer of a new contract. No more talks scheduled this week (Thanksgiving week) - more talks scheduled next week. The news described it as a modest raise and no change in benefits (which are very lucrative) - as the union put it, it falls short of the One Job should be enough initiative (of course, they failed to mention the high pay unskilled workers make at these properties) compared to other workers in Honolulu.
I've got to think the tipped workers are feeling this the hardest (bartenders/servers) - many of them, from what I understand, are pulling 6 figures.
I've got to think if not settled in early December it will drag into next year as the hotels will be planing for Xmas and NYE - a very busy period. At some point there has to be a go/no-go to settle for the holidays.
In my informal drive by around Waikiki today - it seems from a striker in your face/loud noises are by far most prevalent at Moana Surfrider/Princess Kaiulani - the strikers patrol the sidewalks right at the entrances and are quite loud (I'll give them credit, they are persistent - they must have to do that to get strike pay).
The Sheraton Waikiki and Royal Hawaiian seem to have the least impact - it appears they can't picket or come down the main drag into the road that leads into those hotels - and the tactic is march on the beach - but they beach isn't shaded so I doubt they can do that all day.
I've got to think the tipped workers are feeling this the hardest (bartenders/servers) - many of them, from what I understand, are pulling 6 figures.
I've got to think if not settled in early December it will drag into next year as the hotels will be planing for Xmas and NYE - a very busy period. At some point there has to be a go/no-go to settle for the holidays.
In my informal drive by around Waikiki today - it seems from a striker in your face/loud noises are by far most prevalent at Moana Surfrider/Princess Kaiulani - the strikers patrol the sidewalks right at the entrances and are quite loud (I'll give them credit, they are persistent - they must have to do that to get strike pay).
The Sheraton Waikiki and Royal Hawaiian seem to have the least impact - it appears they can't picket or come down the main drag into the road that leads into those hotels - and the tactic is march on the beach - but they beach isn't shaded so I doubt they can do that all day.
Nov 19, 2018, 10:50 pm
#159
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 484
On the news in Honolulu - Union rejected to Hotel's offer of a new contract. No more talks scheduled this week (Thanksgiving week) - more talks scheduled next week. The news described it as a modest raise and no change in benefits (which are very lucrative) - as the union put it, it falls short of the One Job should be enough initiative (of course, they failed to mention the high pay unskilled workers make at these properties) compared to other workers in Honolulu.
I've got to think the tipped workers are feeling this the hardest (bartenders/servers) - many of them, from what I understand, are pulling 6 figures.
I've got to think if not settled in early December it will drag into next year as the hotels will be planing for Xmas and NYE - a very busy period. At some point there has to be a go/no-go to settle for the holidays.
In my informal drive by around Waikiki today - it seems from a striker in your face/loud noises are by far most prevalent at Moana Surfrider/Princess Kaiulani - the strikers patrol the sidewalks right at the entrances and are quite loud (I'll give them credit, they are persistent - they must have to do that to get strike pay).
The Sheraton Waikiki and Royal Hawaiian seem to have the least impact - it appears they can't picket or come down the main drag into the road that leads into those hotels - and the tactic is march on the beach - but they beach isn't shaded so I doubt they can do that all day.
I've got to think the tipped workers are feeling this the hardest (bartenders/servers) - many of them, from what I understand, are pulling 6 figures.
I've got to think if not settled in early December it will drag into next year as the hotels will be planing for Xmas and NYE - a very busy period. At some point there has to be a go/no-go to settle for the holidays.
In my informal drive by around Waikiki today - it seems from a striker in your face/loud noises are by far most prevalent at Moana Surfrider/Princess Kaiulani - the strikers patrol the sidewalks right at the entrances and are quite loud (I'll give them credit, they are persistent - they must have to do that to get strike pay).
The Sheraton Waikiki and Royal Hawaiian seem to have the least impact - it appears they can't picket or come down the main drag into the road that leads into those hotels - and the tactic is march on the beach - but they beach isn't shaded so I doubt they can do that all day.
Everyone I talked to about it has little sympathy for the unskilled workers there getting paid so much and asking for more. Sad this will go into Thanksgiving and also have Christmas coming up soon as well. I don't think it is realistic that they will get the $3. Wonder what happens when the union runs out of strike pay money?
Nov 20, 2018, 6:33 pm
#160
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I used to believe it was only right-wingers who didn't care about damaging the environment in order to make more money.
Nov 20, 2018, 11:48 pm
#161
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I will definitely remember this the next time I am at the hotel post strike......
Nov 27, 2018, 10:47 am
#162
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Not sure what Arne or Marriott has to do with this. This is a strike by UNITE against certain franchisees with whom they have contracts. For example, the Palace and the Hawaii properties are all operated by Kyo-ya which has the franchise to operate five legacy SPG properties in Hawaii and the Palace. I'm not sure who operates the other legacy SPG or legacy Marriott properties involved in the strike.
What Kyo-ya does for its guests during a strike is up to Kyo-ya and they can decide what to do food wise, rate wise, or point wise. That's why they are a franchise and MI cannot get involved in their labor relations or it risks being deemed as a joint employer .... which is a bad thing! Only Kyo-ya can resolve this. One hopes they will not cave ... despite the guest disruption but that is what strikes are about. Maximize intimidation of customers and management to gain leverage. Unite occasionally does things like follow managers home ... picket outside their houses all night chanting ... and my favorite, follow people while they drop off their kids at school.
That doesn't change the disruption but the union claim that they are striking Marriott is untrue ... but it gets a lot more attention that "UNITE strikes Kyo-ya and other hotel operators."
We should all go picket UNITE
What Kyo-ya does for its guests during a strike is up to Kyo-ya and they can decide what to do food wise, rate wise, or point wise. That's why they are a franchise and MI cannot get involved in their labor relations or it risks being deemed as a joint employer .... which is a bad thing! Only Kyo-ya can resolve this. One hopes they will not cave ... despite the guest disruption but that is what strikes are about. Maximize intimidation of customers and management to gain leverage. Unite occasionally does things like follow managers home ... picket outside their houses all night chanting ... and my favorite, follow people while they drop off their kids at school.
That doesn't change the disruption but the union claim that they are striking Marriott is untrue ... but it gets a lot more attention that "UNITE strikes Kyo-ya and other hotel operators."
We should all go picket UNITE
But here's the most important point I can share... KyoYa bought strike insurance. KyoYa isn't losing a dime right now. They are collecting on the insurance. This is why they made an offer "in good faith" for the increase. Now that they have done that, they will wash their hands of this. They can let the strike go for months and months and, "meh." He is not a Hawaii guy, he's from Japan. He has no loyalty or concern for the people of Hawaii or the health of the tourism economy, IMHO.
The $22/hr rate is true (it is mentioned often in local articles, like here). There is a lot of backlash from the local population to that, since it is fairly high pay for unskilled labor, especially since many people living in Hawaii are working jobs that require degrees and experience get paid less than that. Any time the strike has been mentioned in the local newspaper online, the comments section on the articles is pretty toxic and generally not supportive. Recently there was a piece in the Star Advertiser interviewing some of the workers (in particular, a couple both employed at the same hotel) who had worked there for years and they said they couldn't afford to raise their family with a few children. My personal opinion is that jobs like these should be stepping stones up - a motivator to increase your own skills. Those staying in the same unskilled labor position for years, I don't have much compassion when it comes to low pay. The real issue in my opinion is the high cost of living in Hawaii and the factors contributing to that, like the sky high cost of housing here, the lack of available affordable housing, poor public transportation options, etc. The San Francisco Bay Area definitely suffers from a lot of the same issues that the residents in Hawaii face. Throwing money at things may pacify people temporarily, but there are a lot of deeper issues that need to be solved.
There have been plenty of complaints from guests at the Kyo-ya properties about service. I feel bad for them, since a factor like this is not in their control it can really ruin a vacation they saved up for. The workers in Hawaii will be going back to the table soon with Kyo-ya, hopefully things are resolved soon.
There have been plenty of complaints from guests at the Kyo-ya properties about service. I feel bad for them, since a factor like this is not in their control it can really ruin a vacation they saved up for. The workers in Hawaii will be going back to the table soon with Kyo-ya, hopefully things are resolved soon.
The press coverage in Honolulu has turned virtually non-existent lately - although, when I do head to Waikiki, the strikers are loud, so most of the stories are around the tourists being inconvenienced.
As noted above, housekeepers are very well paid by Honolulu standards for unskilled labor - and housing is far cheaper in Honolulu than San Francisco.
As noted above, housekeepers are very well paid by Honolulu standards for unskilled labor - and housing is far cheaper in Honolulu than San Francisco.
In Hawaii it's just a given... it's generational and they don't know any other way. The Unions are so strong there that twice while I was there two of the Union bosses at different times were in Jail and were still running the unions from there. Had an interesting example of that - was managing an office downtown HNL. Not unionized because a lot of those aren't. Hired a woman to do our bookkeeping. One day she didn't show up to work and I called to ask why. Her response, "Today is a holiday!" Me, "Uh, no. It's not." Her, "It's a UNION holiday and I'll sue you if you make me come in to work!" Me, "We aren't Union, I need you here. If you don't come in, we will have a problem." She didn't come in, I fired her, she reported me to the State Labor Department for firing her for not showing up to work during a Union Holiday. Fortunately I had good rapport with the Labor Dept and they told her to take a hike.
Sorry for the long post, watching this closely as some of these stores and businesses being affected tangentially are my clients. Very upset about the foolishness of this. Marriott and KyoYa cannot fix the economic state of Hawaii nor any other city.
Adding this - Was just at a Marriott property today where one of the managers had just returned from helping out in Hawaii. He made an interesting comment off the cuff. This isn't an official statement by any means, but he said, "Well, the Marriott contract with KyoYa is up on Dec. 31. Marriott COULD just decide to not renew. Or they could recommend all the hotels in question be turned into condos. This could backfire big time on the Unions."
So, your guess is as good as mine. The Marriott Resorts in Hawaii are not involved in this strike. They are waiting to see what happens. One manager told me they were surprised the hotel strikes started with Marriott, as usually they start with lower end properties and work their way up. So this is definitely the work of the Democrat Socialist group mentioned earlier in the thread.
Happy TG, CyberMonday, GivingTuesday, Holidaze, etc to you all!
Nov 27, 2018, 11:48 am
#163
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The President/Owner of KyoYa lives on the 5th floor of the Moana, and apparently doesn't give a rip. He has offered them what he considers the best offer he's willing to make. It's up to him and not Marriott. They rejected it. There was a hiatus over the TG holiday, but today they are back at it in Waikiki. When I was there a few weeks ago I told them they were picketing the wrong thing. They should picket the Gov about the Jones Act, which, if repealed, would go a long way towards lowering the cost of living in Hawaii. Many of them had never heard of it.
But here's the most important point I can share... KyoYa bought strike insurance. KyoYa isn't losing a dime right now. They are collecting on the insurance. This is why they made an offer "in good faith" for the increase. Now that they have done that, they will wash their hands of this. They can let the strike go for months and months and, "meh." He is not a Hawaii guy, he's from Japan. He has no loyalty or concern for the people of Hawaii or the health of the tourism economy, IMHO.
High cost of living, yes. Poor Public Transportation options in Hawaii? Not on Oahu, at least. Hawaii's Bus system is one of the best in the nation. You can buy an inexpensive bus pass and get anywhere on Oahu. Some of the other islands, yes. It can be an issue. As for "the workers in Hawaii going back to the table," well, these are my peeps, but they are all too willing to let the Democrat Socialists from the mainland tell them what they want and don't want. Did you know it's written in the state constitution that all govt workers are required to belong to the Govt union? This is institutionalized there and the people caught up in it don't realize or think about how bad this thing is on their economy. They just don't get it. They are being played and this will go on forever...
Some press coverage today. But the Star Advertiser is now living up to it's name and ya gotta pay to read it. Sheesh. Pacific Business News has a few articles.
In Hawaii it's just a given... it's generational and they don't know any other way. The Unions are so strong there that twice while I was there two of the Union bosses at different times were in Jail and were still running the unions from there. Had an interesting example of that - was managing an office downtown HNL. Not unionized because a lot of those aren't. Hired a woman to do our bookkeeping. One day she didn't show up to work and I called to ask why. Her response, "Today is a holiday!" Me, "Uh, no. It's not." Her, "It's a UNION holiday and I'll sue you if you make me come in to work!" Me, "We aren't Union, I need you here. If you don't come in, we will have a problem." She didn't come in, I fired her, she reported me to the State Labor Department for firing her for not showing up to work during a Union Holiday. Fortunately I had good rapport with the Labor Dept and they told her to take a hike.
Some very happy Marriott Employees from the mainland.
Sorry for the long post, watching this closely as some of these stores and businesses being affected tangentially are my clients. Very upset about the foolishness of this. Marriott and KyoYa cannot fix the economic state of Hawaii nor any other city.
Adding this - Was just at a Marriott property today where one of the managers had just returned from helping out in Hawaii. He made an interesting comment off the cuff. This isn't an official statement by any means, but he said, "Well, the Marriott contract with KyoYa is up on Dec. 31. Marriott COULD just decide to not renew. Or they could recommend all the hotels in question be turned into condos. This could backfire big time on the Unions."
So, your guess is as good as mine. The Marriott Resorts in Hawaii are not involved in this strike. They are waiting to see what happens. One manager told me they were surprised the hotel strikes started with Marriott, as usually they start with lower end properties and work their way up. So this is definitely the work of the Democrat Socialist group mentioned earlier in the thread.
Happy TG, CyberMonday, GivingTuesday, Holidaze, etc to you all!
But here's the most important point I can share... KyoYa bought strike insurance. KyoYa isn't losing a dime right now. They are collecting on the insurance. This is why they made an offer "in good faith" for the increase. Now that they have done that, they will wash their hands of this. They can let the strike go for months and months and, "meh." He is not a Hawaii guy, he's from Japan. He has no loyalty or concern for the people of Hawaii or the health of the tourism economy, IMHO.
High cost of living, yes. Poor Public Transportation options in Hawaii? Not on Oahu, at least. Hawaii's Bus system is one of the best in the nation. You can buy an inexpensive bus pass and get anywhere on Oahu. Some of the other islands, yes. It can be an issue. As for "the workers in Hawaii going back to the table," well, these are my peeps, but they are all too willing to let the Democrat Socialists from the mainland tell them what they want and don't want. Did you know it's written in the state constitution that all govt workers are required to belong to the Govt union? This is institutionalized there and the people caught up in it don't realize or think about how bad this thing is on their economy. They just don't get it. They are being played and this will go on forever...
Some press coverage today. But the Star Advertiser is now living up to it's name and ya gotta pay to read it. Sheesh. Pacific Business News has a few articles.
In Hawaii it's just a given... it's generational and they don't know any other way. The Unions are so strong there that twice while I was there two of the Union bosses at different times were in Jail and were still running the unions from there. Had an interesting example of that - was managing an office downtown HNL. Not unionized because a lot of those aren't. Hired a woman to do our bookkeeping. One day she didn't show up to work and I called to ask why. Her response, "Today is a holiday!" Me, "Uh, no. It's not." Her, "It's a UNION holiday and I'll sue you if you make me come in to work!" Me, "We aren't Union, I need you here. If you don't come in, we will have a problem." She didn't come in, I fired her, she reported me to the State Labor Department for firing her for not showing up to work during a Union Holiday. Fortunately I had good rapport with the Labor Dept and they told her to take a hike.
Some very happy Marriott Employees from the mainland.
Sorry for the long post, watching this closely as some of these stores and businesses being affected tangentially are my clients. Very upset about the foolishness of this. Marriott and KyoYa cannot fix the economic state of Hawaii nor any other city.
Adding this - Was just at a Marriott property today where one of the managers had just returned from helping out in Hawaii. He made an interesting comment off the cuff. This isn't an official statement by any means, but he said, "Well, the Marriott contract with KyoYa is up on Dec. 31. Marriott COULD just decide to not renew. Or they could recommend all the hotels in question be turned into condos. This could backfire big time on the Unions."
So, your guess is as good as mine. The Marriott Resorts in Hawaii are not involved in this strike. They are waiting to see what happens. One manager told me they were surprised the hotel strikes started with Marriott, as usually they start with lower end properties and work their way up. So this is definitely the work of the Democrat Socialist group mentioned earlier in the thread.
Happy TG, CyberMonday, GivingTuesday, Holidaze, etc to you all!
At the end of the day Hawaii and the union will pay there is a movement world wide to reduce dependance on so much labor in the operations. More electronic checking in/out. etc
Nov 27, 2018, 4:41 pm
#164
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Update about 15 min ago - Strike looks like it was settled. They are voting on it right now until 7:30 pm Hawaii time today. https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/...th-kyo-ya.html
Upside, it's over. Downside, now all hotels islandwide will have to increase their pay and benefits to match or face their own strikes. That means you can kiss all your sweet hotel deals good bye. When it costs upwards of $100,000 a year per housekeeper for the wages and benefits packages, your only bet will be to get a local drivers license and qualify for "Kamaiiana rates" -- which is how they make sure locals still get to travel to see auntie and uncle on the neighbor island.
Upside, it's over. Downside, now all hotels islandwide will have to increase their pay and benefits to match or face their own strikes. That means you can kiss all your sweet hotel deals good bye. When it costs upwards of $100,000 a year per housekeeper for the wages and benefits packages, your only bet will be to get a local drivers license and qualify for "Kamaiiana rates" -- which is how they make sure locals still get to travel to see auntie and uncle on the neighbor island.
Nov 27, 2018, 6:31 pm
#165
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Update about 15 min ago - Strike looks like it was settled. They are voting on it right now until 7:30 pm Hawaii time today. https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/...th-kyo-ya.html
Upside, it's over. Downside, now all hotels islandwide will have to increase their pay and benefits to match or face their own strikes. That means you can kiss all your sweet hotel deals good bye. When it costs upwards of $100,000 a year per housekeeper for the wages and benefits packages, your only bet will be to get a local drivers license and qualify for "Kamaiiana rates" -- which is how they make sure locals still get to travel to see auntie and uncle on the neighbor island.
Upside, it's over. Downside, now all hotels islandwide will have to increase their pay and benefits to match or face their own strikes. That means you can kiss all your sweet hotel deals good bye. When it costs upwards of $100,000 a year per housekeeper for the wages and benefits packages, your only bet will be to get a local drivers license and qualify for "Kamaiiana rates" -- which is how they make sure locals still get to travel to see auntie and uncle on the neighbor island.