bhrubin

I do have plenty of experience with the old Marriott Rewards, and I have a lot more experience with the old SPG. And Marriott pretty much has adopted the bulk of the old SPG, in case you or anyone else hasn't noticed: Platinum at 50 nights, Platinum at 75 nights, Platinum with Ambassador service at 100 nights, guaranteed 4 pm late checkout, better benefits at resorts, better and more consistent breakfast benefits, more consistent lounge access, guaranteed suite upgrades based on availability (even now at Ritz-Carlton), Suite Night Awards, Your24. The list goes on and on. Marriott's new loyalty program looks an awful lot more like SPG and not much at all like Marriott Rewards. They did take the name Platinum Premier from Marriott Rewards, though. All of the elite benefits are copied straight from SPG, however.

Marriott Rewards didn't do squat for Plat Premier over Plat, and SPG didn't designate between Plat25, Plat50, Plat75, and Plat100 at the check-in desk. And yet Ambassadors contacted hotels to let them know of their VIP Ambassador guests, and those SPG Plat100 Ambassador guests had tremendously better suite upgrade probabilities and better recognition throughout their stays than everyone else, even (and especially) at the most aspirational properties. Of course, those aspirational properties didn't even exist in the Marriott portfolio as we know now.

We already know and have confirmed that in November, all SPG legacy hotels will get a new system for check in that will designate Silver, Gold, Plat, Plat Premier, and Plat Premier with Ambassador levels. That must be true for Marriott hotels, too. That wasn't true in Marriott for Plat Premier, and that wasn't true in SPG for differences between Platinum levels. It will be different in the new Marriott universe, though. And Ambassadors STILL will be able to contact their teams at the hotels to better execute Ambassador requests (and better enable upgrades for those with Plat Premier with Ambassador status.)

Marriott learned from the SPG Ambassador program. So many complaints from SPG Plat100 Ambassador guests who spent so little money relative to others but stayed 100 nights at midscale properties or others with cheaper rates and then complained when they didn't get the same level of suite upgrades or VIP treatment as those who spent a ton more money and stayed 100 nights (often but not always at more upscale and luxury properties). Those who spent more and stayed at nicer hotels not surprisingly got better treatment than those who didn't in the SPG program--I always suggested that was the case, and everyone screamed at the unfairness of that suggestion and how wrong I must be. That is, until Marriott incorporated the new Ambassador program at 100 nights and required a minimum $20K spending. My suggestion was thereby confirmed.

Marriott learned from the SPG program's levels. For Marriott, there were so many wonders about the non-published Plat Premier level that didn't do much that was different from regular Plat (which wasn't nearly as comprehensive and didn't offer nearly as many guaranteed benefits as SPG did for Platinums). SPG had elites that wondered whether it was worth getting Plat75 with only the Your24 benefit. Marriott's new universe gives incentive for Plat Premier in higher upgrade priority over Plat, as well as a second Choice Benefit. That solved the old problem SPG had with Plat75. Moving Your24 to the Plat Premier Ambassador level makes it far more likely to be executed, since there are fewer elites in that pool and concomitantly higher chances to get those approved.

I think the upgrade priority is very obvious for Plat Premier with Ambassador over Plat Premier over Plat. You're welcome to believe otherwise based on a memory of the old Marriott way of doing things, but the old Marriott way of doing things doesn't remotely look like the new loyalty program.

Woodsmit

Checked into Los Alcobos in Napa last weekend and I looked at the checkin card the attendant had on their clipboard (they meet you at your car and take you straight to your room). The card had all the loyalty categories laid out, i.e. plat prem w/ ambassador, plat prem, plat, etc with a check mark next to my level. So clear they know and use it for some purpose; perhaps just recognition but could be more. In any event, the system definitely spitting that out.

SHLTP

We don't know for a fact anything, ie if there is priority for different plat tiers for upgrades etc... however the clear designation and definition of tiers and addition of spending requirement for ambassador mean something now in a different way than before, as does the fact that no one will be grandfathered into lifetime plat premier elite after 2019. It seems to me likely that there will be tangible differences of the different tiers above platinum, as it should be.

Why else would Marriott limit lifetime plat premiere elites? Because there will be a tangible difference aside from point earning. As I have written a lot, I have been underwhelmed with ambassador status so didn't get it the past couple years. But now that there is a spending requirement, I might go for it again as it seems there will be fewer people in it, and thus likely benefits.

bhrubin

Thanks for the data point!

(I also quoted this post and asked some more questions in the Las Alcobas thread. I hope you don't mind, but I'd love to hear more about your stay in that thread.)

SLC 4217

So I tried to used a SNA at the Renaissance Providence and the system would not let me apply it. So I called the Platinum desk and they told me that this individual hotel does not participate and taht hotels can opt out. This was news to me and I asked for a list of hotels that opt out and she did not have one.


Is this true?

GoPhils

MSPeconomist

bhrubin

Sorry, the T&C don't use guaranteed. But they do state:

Bolding mine. Plats are now entitled to receive the complimentary upgrade to the best available room, which now includes suites. Obviously, based on availability. That guarantees the benefit of a suite upgrade if available and included in the hotel's suite pool.

This was confirmed previously by Marriott and is now confirmed by the revised T&C.

That is now the same as SPG's suite upgrade benefit guarantee. In fact, it's perhaps even better, since it doesn't mention only "standard" or "select" suites, though I'm sure that's at each hotel's discretion.

I understand. Most corporate T&C have some ambiguity. This isn't new.

This particular debate reminds me of the debate about terms versus intent with regard to the first event bonus of 10 elite qualifying nights. People want to believe what they want to believe, saying it doesn't say "only" or otherwise specifically narrow it to just the first event. I think that intent is clear, and the evidence for it is clear. Still, some continue to debate.

I think the intent here is the same, and the evidence also is already quickly backing that up. Even the last few posts here more or less support and substantiate the point.

SLC 4217

Agreed, but, this is a simple standard hotel, not a logical exception. So I am trying to understand what the new rules\expectations are

SHLTP

There is also a difference for plat premier and plat for tie ins with Hertz and level of tier to which mapped.

So I see tangible benefits

bhrubin

Actually, it's Plat Premier with Ambassador (Hertz President's Circle) vs Plat Premier (Hertz Five Star). But the point still is the same--tangible difference in benefits.

GoPhils

And again, many hotels have historically played games with how they define "available." We'll see if that changes in the new world.

craigthemif

It's worth starting from the assumption that SNAs only exist because of Marriott corporate's fear of losing SPG elites and that the IT is only relatively reliable for ex-SPG hotels using the old SPG IT.

Be pleasantly surprised for the short to medium term if an SNA works at a Marriott property. Same with space-available suite upgrades at check-in...

bhrubin

Not that many legacy SPG hotels played those games, though there always were complains from Plats who didn't quite understand the standard suite detail or just saw conspiracies everywhere. But SPG hotels were used to this upgrade guarantee.

It's the legacy Marriott hotels that really have to adjust to this new upgrade guarantee. Of course, most legacy Marriott hotels don't have that many suites, anyway, so I wouldn't expect a suite upgrade at the overwhelming majority of Marriott legacy brands for most Plats and even Plat Premiers (and heck, even Ambassador guests at some properties!).

yeunganson

I do have a few comments to make.

1) It is absolutely wonderful the merged program looked more like the image of SPG than Marriott Rewards. It seems our SPG team lost the battle on 15 eligible nights on credit cards and had to compromise on giving out 10 reward nights on first event meetings (while doubling the points earned which is a good trade). I wished SPG team could have further implemented the strict eligible nights as butt-in-beds nights and remove those credit card bonus nights to put world-wide members whose country don't have a Marriott/SPG Visa or AMEX in a more level playing field.

2) The pre-merge SPG program rarely have any gaming/maximizing status opportunities which I consider a definite strength. There are no 10 eligible nights per $100 no show meetings. Even an el-chepo room in a four point (the cheapest I can find and stay) cost $130 a night. 100 nights of that is a $13000 investment just for status - you must be quite crazy to do that. A mid-level Sheraton in a normal city like Vancouver with favorable corporate rates runs into near $200 a night. Hong Kong Sheraton (another upper mid-tier) with favorable corporate rate is $350 a night. Tokyo/London none I ever stayed in mid-tier that can be had at sub $200. So I totally see people from developed nations would have spent upwards of $16000 even in low-end/ low mid-tier hotels only. The ones that are substantially sub $16,000 are those guests staying in their developing countries - like China or Indonesia. Then again, road warriors there earn a lot lot less than their counterparts in the west and the hotels in China cost a lot less than those in America. Because the lack of gaming opportunities, pro or con calculations become easier. I had 96 nights one year and consensus was not to stay extra 4 night (around $400 in points worth) unnecessarily to gain an Ambassador. And SPG was extremely strict that no one gets comped to ambassador even at 2 night short (according to Starwood Lurker when I begged to be comped that year).

3) I suspect this. Because SPG loss the strict definition of eligible nights (ie butt-in-beds) and Marriott has more maximizing/gaming opportunities, we now have a $20,000 spending threshold to make Ambassador. Towards better equality I think they will selectively invite the top-tier spenders in developing countries that don't meet the $US 20,000 threshold for Ambassador too due to their nations salary and hotel costs there. For most in the developed world, SPG members that normally do 100 nights won't find it too challenging if the lure of ambassador is indeed that good - turning one or two points redemption vacation to a paid one probably would cut it. Or when you book two rooms, pay for one in cash and the other in points. I am happy to know Event Meeting spending won't count towards the $20,000 spending threshold so meeting planners will have a different support structure than frequently staying guests. This spending threshold I believe aims at Marriott members who normally play the game of maximization to gain the top level status in lowest cost, the lowest cost is now $20,000.

4) Those that fail to get Platinum 100 with Ambassador, it's not doom and gloom. When we (SPG members) design the Suite Night Awards, it was intended to be your Ace cards like the airlines "system-wide upgrade" in the 2000s. Ritz isn't joining yet perhaps due to franchisee contract and i have faith they will come on board. Whether you are Plat 75 or Plat 100 with Ambassador, you both have 10 Suite Night cards to play. Those Suite Nights Awards will have priority over the Ambassador phone call to hotel. So it's not like Plat 75 or Plat 50 is going to continuously play second or third fiddle to those with Ambassadors. Of course, if the Plat 100 uses his/her Ace cards Suite Night Wards too, you just have to wait your next chance. Hotels can always open up an additional suite for your stay - and I find this happening more often when I pay in cash instead of points and it happens a lot more often if the hotel happens to be completely full (yes going at peak period and the most expensive times have better luck and lighter wallets).

5) Keep staying in the same hotel gets you upgrade even in the strictest properties because some hotels have their own hotel loyalty program on top of SPG/Marriott and have a record on previous stays. By the time front desk staff and the manager recognizes you, you have a higher chance of getting an upgrade that is above the Marriott/SPG program. For example, I stayed continuously over a decade in the same hotels every time I visit Tokyo. First 8 years, never a suite. Year 9, 10, and 11, it was joyous "Oh Lord Suite at last! Suite at last!".

So in conclusion, for those who really stays 50/75 nights and more a year in hotel and stay in the SAME hotels over and over through the years, have faith in the staff and managers who would have recognized you by now and if you more likely than not will get your Suite that you have been getting pre-merger, it's not going away by the odd visit of that Plat 100 with ambassador. Plat 50/75 will also have your Ace cards Suite Night Awards certs so you can use them in a reasonable way and you'll likely get a suite when you really needed them.

For those that really only stay 30 nights and got the other 45 through credit cards and and no-show meetings.... you still have the 10 Suite Night Awards for the vacation and play lotto on a suite you really wanted. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just redeem a suite (or pay for a suite) than playing the status game?