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Lets talk about alternatives to the SPG Amex after the massive Marriott devaluation

Lets talk about alternatives to the SPG Amex after the massive Marriott devaluation

Old Apr 21, 2018, 8:14 am
  #121  
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Originally Posted by surfmonkey89
Are you talking specifically airline miles? Because it looks like the new program will have the similar transfer rules to what we get with SPG today, i.e. 3:1.

Marriott points will transfer to airlines at 3:1. UR points transfer to a smaller set of airlines at 1:1, and also have the option to transfer to Marriott at 1:1.

So for an equal number of UR or Marriott points, the UR points can do literally anything the Marriott points could, since you can transfer UR->Marriott and do whatever you want in the Marriott program, including transferring the points on to various airlines at 3:1 if you really wanted. But the UR points can also do things the Marriott points cant do, like transfer 1:1 to United (thus offering a better return than Marriott points) or transferring 1:1 to Hyatt (thus offering something Marriott points cant do at all).

So (setting aside the travel packages), 60k Marriott points could become 25k BA miles for example, but 60k UR points could become 60k BA miles.

So if you had both cards and were choosing between using a card that gave you 3 UR points per dollar on dining (the CSR) or 3 Marriott points per dollar on dining (the SPG Luxury Amex) youd always choose the CSR.

That logic obviously doesnt work if you dont hold both cards, though but a lot of people do already hold the CSR (and IMO anyone who spends decent amounts on travel and dining probably should have it, arguably as a higher priority than the SPG Luxury Amex).

That logic also gets more complicated if its not the same number of UR or Marriott points for example on non-bonus categories the new Marriott cards will offer 2 Marriott points per dollar while the most UR points you can get in non-bonus categories is 1.5 per dollar on the Chase Freedom Unlimited. If you really really wanted Marriott points you might choose the 2 Marriott points over 1.5 UR points, though for most people if you investigate the value of URs other use options beyond transferring to Marriott, I think you would come to the conclusion that 1.5 UR points is worth more than 2 Marriott points.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 11:29 am
  #122  
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I have cards exclusively from Amex (Business Platinum, Everyday, 2 Deltas, both SPGs) and Chase (CSR, both Freedoms, both Marriotts, Ink Cash), and it will probably stay that way to avoid spreading myself too thin across programs. The following has been my spend strategy up to now...

CSR - restaurants (excl. 5x Freedom quarter) and travel (excl. SPG/Marriott/RC spends)
Ink Cash - telecommunications bills and merchant GCs at office stores
Freedom - restaurants for a quarter and gas year-round via Shell GCs
SPG (either one) - SPG/Marriott/RC spends and all other non-category everyday spends (even $5k+ non-cat spends haven't enticed me enough to use my Business Platinum for the 1.5x)
Business Platinum - $200 worth of Delta incidentals (that's it)

The CSR and SPG cards comprise like 90% of my spends, while the Ink Cash and Freedom get the occasional use. The Business Platinum, Everyday, the Deltas, Freedom Unlimited (useless to me up to this point as I had the SPG for everyday spends), and the Marriotts pretty much have been sitting in my drawer collecting dust. Not sure how much value the new spend categories of the SPG Business would provide as I'm already covered (and then some) by the CSR, Ink Cash, and Freedom categories.

In light of recent news regarding the SPG card devaluation, for non-category spends, I might bring the Freedom Unlimited out of mothballs or possibly apply for the Blue Business Plus as someone suggested earlier (and just close out my Everyday card).

As far as what I'm going to do with my current 4 SPG/Marriott cards, I might keep them all in addition to applying for the 2 new offerings, for 6 free nights a year. Not 100% sure yet.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 11:40 am
  #123  
 
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Originally Posted by bgriff



Marriott points will transfer to airlines at 3:1. UR points transfer to a smaller set of airlines at 1:1, and also have the option to transfer to Marriott at 1:1.

So for an equal number of UR or Marriott points, the UR points can do literally anything the Marriott points could, since you can transfer UR->Marriott and do whatever you want in the Marriott program, including transferring the points on to various airlines at 3:1 if you really wanted. But the UR points can also do things the Marriott points cant do, like transfer 1:1 to United (thus offering a better return than Marriott points) or transferring 1:1 to Hyatt (thus offering something Marriott points cant do at all).

So (setting aside the travel packages), 60k Marriott points could become 25k BA miles for example, but 60k UR points could become 60k BA miles.

So if you had both cards and were choosing between using a card that gave you 3 UR points per dollar on dining (the CSR) or 3 Marriott points per dollar on dining (the SPG Luxury Amex) youd always choose the CSR.

That logic obviously doesnt work if you dont hold both cards, though but a lot of people do already hold the CSR (and IMO anyone who spends decent amounts on travel and dining probably should have it, arguably as a higher priority than the SPG Luxury Amex).

That logic also gets more complicated if its not the same number of UR or Marriott points for example on non-bonus categories the new Marriott cards will offer 2 Marriott points per dollar while the most UR points you can get in non-bonus categories is 1.5 per dollar on the Chase Freedom Unlimited. If you really really wanted Marriott points you might choose the 2 Marriott points over 1.5 UR points, though for most people if you investigate the value of URs other use options beyond transferring to Marriott, I think you would come to the conclusion that 1.5 UR points is worth more than 2 Marriott points.
Good analysis of these two cards. I do wonder if Starriott will stay as a redemption partner post Aug 1 when all the new cards are out. Would change the analysis greatly if they left.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 1:55 pm
  #124  
 
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Originally Posted by avja
No one has mentioned the Chase Ink Business Cash card (not the Cash Preferred card). I'm thinking it pays to keep this card for the five percent UR reward points for internet, phone, cable bills and office supply stores and the two percent on gas. Am I missing something?
i mentioned the ink. I use it for all the bonus spend categories including travel. CSR is only for dining and everyday personal spend. Wife has CSP.

thinking this fall i will drop spg personal and keep biz just for starriot spend - but maybe switching to a new Marriott card will be better bonus?
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 3:00 pm
  #125  
 
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Any suggestions for alternatives that give free lounge access? I book Sheratons for the free lounge access
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 3:06 pm
  #126  
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Originally Posted by sierranevada
Any suggestions for alternatives that give free lounge access? I book Sheratons for the free lounge access
The only way to get free lounge access at SPG/Marriott properties going forward will be to get Platinum by spending $75K per year on the new SPG Amex Luxury card. (And/or possibly on the Chase Ritz card, the future details of that card are unclear.)

If you want lounge access in general, the easiest place to get it is with Hilton. There is a $450 Amex card that gives you Hilton Diamond (even without any spend) which guarantees you lounge access. There are also a variety of cards, including the Amex Platinum card and some other cheaper Hilton cards, which get you Hilton Gold access which in theory could get you lounge access, but only if the hotel upgrades you to a club room -- in my experience that is definitely far from a sure thing, so if you want the guarantee you'd want to get the one that gives Hilton Diamond status.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 4:43 pm
  #127  
 
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Count me in on this.

SPG Amex has been great for me when it comes to earning points on travel/non-cat spend that I can either use at SPG hotels or move to Delta without much hassle if I need it. Now that it's getting nerfed, I'm debating what card is the best for my needs.

So far, I've thought up 3 options for addressing spend after August:

1. Upgrade to the SPG luxury when it releases, and while cognizant of the devaluation, continue to use it for travel (hotels + airfare) and non-cat spend.
2. Use my CSR for ALL spend and transfer through KoreanAir/FlyingBlue to Delta when I need it.
3. Go back to using my Delta Skymiles Platinum for airfare/non-cat spend, and use my current SPG Amex for hotels.


Skymiles and Marriott/SPG points are the only rewards I care about accumulating.

Would appreciate some input.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 4:52 pm
  #128  
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Originally Posted by mjb59463
Count me in on this.

SPG Amex has been great for me when it comes to earning points on travel/non-cat spend that I can either use at SPG hotels or move to Delta without much hassle if I need it. Now that it's getting nerfed, I'm debating what card is the best for my needs.

So far, I've thought up 3 options for addressing spend after August:

1. Upgrade to the SPG luxury when it releases, and while cognizant of the devaluation, continue to use it for travel (hotels + airfare) and non-cat spend.
2. Use my CSR for ALL spend and transfer through KoreanAir/FlyingBlue to Delta when I need it.
3. Go back to using my Delta Skymiles Platinum for airfare/non-cat spend, and use my current SPG Amex for hotels.


Skymiles and Marriott/SPG points are the only rewards I care about accumulating.

Would appreciate some input.
If earning SkyMiles is a priority for you, look at the Amex Membership Rewards family of cards. Amex Platinum, Preferred Rewards Gold, Everyday and Everyday Preferred. Depending on your spending amounts and categories, the exact combination of right cards could vary, but you can definitely earn more Membership Rewards points (which are 1:1 transferrable to SkyMiles) than is generally possible with a SkyMiles credit card. (Only reason to use the SkyMiles card is if you need the MQM boosts and/or MQD waiver.)

If you still want to have some points toward hotels, you could consider using one or more Membership Rewards cards for bonus categories and one of the SPG/Marriott cards for non-bonus categories.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 5:07 pm
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by bgriff
If earning SkyMiles is a priority for you, look at the Amex Membership Rewards family of cards. Amex Platinum, Preferred Rewards Gold, Everyday and Everyday Preferred. Depending on your spending amounts and categories, the exact combination of right cards could vary, but you can definitely earn more Membership Rewards points (which are 1:1 transferrable to SkyMiles) than is generally possible with a SkyMiles credit card. (Only reason to use the SkyMiles card is if you need the MQM boosts and/or MQD waiver.)

If you still want to have some points toward hotels, you could consider using one or more Membership Rewards cards for bonus categories and one of the SPG/Marriott cards for non-bonus categories.
Thanks for the response!

I'll have to dig into what MR card would be best for me.

Restaurants/Gas/random non-cat things make up the majority of my spend, so I'm not sure what the best play is. Not sure what card or combo would hit this and obtain the rewards I want.

Last edited by mjb59463; Apr 21, 2018 at 5:12 pm
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 5:42 pm
  #130  
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Originally Posted by mjb59463
Thanks for the response!

I'll have to dig into what MR card would be best for me.

Restaurants/Gas/random non-cat things make up the majority of my spend, so I'm not sure what the best play is. Not sure what card or combo would hit this and obtain the rewards I want.
If you already have the CSR for restaurants, the Everyday cards could work well for gas spend and non-bonus, as long as you make enough purchases on it per month to get the bonus. Though personally I find it hard to make the monthly purchase counts without dining spend (thanks to lots of little purchases like grabbing coffees and such), and theres no special bonus for dining on the Everyday. So it can be a tricky one.

If SkyMiles are really the priority, dropping the CSR and going all in on the Preferred Rewards Gold card could also be an option. The return on dining is only 2 points and theres no bonus on non-airfare travel, but it does have a decent mix of bonus categories.

And obviously its never a good idea to carry a balance on a card, but FYI Amex has a feature called Pay Over Time that they offer on charge cards (in my experience, they usually pitch it to you after your account has been open for 6 months or a year) where they let you carry the balance for purchases over a certain amount (I forget how much but maybe $100?), such that those purchases behave essentially the same as a credit card.
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Old Apr 22, 2018, 7:14 am
  #131  
 
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Does anyone know if you have already booked a Sheraton prior to the lounge access change, will they honor the old terms? Thamks
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Old Apr 22, 2018, 7:43 am
  #132  
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original announcement was amex didnt keep regular personal credit card, so id imagine amex is happier

Originally Posted by pokee
So...what happens when SPG is officially the combined program in August?
starpoints become points (this is a quote)

so get as much into starpoints before august 1 when they automatically convert

i might transfer a little bit from amex membership rewards
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Old Apr 22, 2018, 8:39 am
  #133  
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Could AMEX renegotiate luxury card for 3 points/dollar before Aug 1?

With so many talking about defecting to Hilton and/or switching non-bonus spend to the CSR, I'm wondering if AMEX would consider renegotiating with Marriott between now and Aug 1?

I think all it would take would be for the new SPG Amex luxury card to earn 3 points per dollar (equivalent to the old SPG Amex cards) for non-bonus, non-category spend.
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Old Apr 22, 2018, 8:42 am
  #134  
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Speaking of the CSR, how secure/long-term are the Chase UR arrangements with airline/hotel transfer partners? If a bunch of us switch to the CSR, and then Chase discontinues the ability to transfer to Marriott a short time after Aug 1, we've made a bad gamble...
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Old Apr 22, 2018, 9:20 am
  #135  
 
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
With so many talking about defecting to Hilton and/or switching non-bonus spend to the CSR, I'm wondering if AMEX would consider renegotiating with Marriott between now and Aug 1?

I think all it would take would be for the new SPG Amex luxury card to earn 3 points per dollar (equivalent to the old SPG Amex cards) for non-bonus, non-category spend.
This assumes no significant devaluation when the new award levels come out. Also - while I'm one of the people who will change spend patterns starting Aug 1 (I recently applied for and was accepted to Hilton Aspire, which will be my new every spend), I have no intention of cancelling my Amex SPG as I'll still get a free night. So Amex won't be seeing lots of cancellations, they'll likely just see lowered spend activity, which will take time to notice. So perhaps a renegotiation or bonus promo for spend will appear at some later time (2019 for example). Further, my spend is staying with Amex, just shifting from SPG to Hilton. So I'd imagine Amex at a corp level doesn't care all that much (sig defections to CSR would matter more to them).

Originally Posted by ESpen36
Speaking of the CSR, how secure/long-term are the Chase UR arrangements with airline/hotel transfer partners? If a bunch of us switch to the CSR, and then Chase discontinues the ability to transfer to Marriott a short time after Aug 1, we've made a bad gamble...
Agreed although if it is your intention to get CSR solely for Marriott redemptions then you are not optimizing the value of this card. Hyatt would be a much better transfer partner for CSR (as it's value is sig higher post Aug 1). Or airlines for biz/first.
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