Here's your response:

"Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad to see that, after months of dealing with you, you are finally taking my complaints seriously. Had you done so from the outset, we could have avoided the entire situation.

Your most recent letter is immature and vindictive, and I have decided that the most appropriate response would be to post it on as many travel websites as I can find. There are a number of fine hotels and resorts in Phuket, and I believe that it is my responsibility to help travelers make an informed decision about where they will stay.

I will be forwarding your letter to Mr. Marriott's office, as well as a thank you to the individual who finally cleared up the situation for me and made things right. Since you sent this letter to me, I trust that you will have no problem if I share it with the corporate office.

Best wishes,
emanon256"

Mike

This issue just wont die!
 

I sent a response similar to mikeefs suggestion, but without the threat of posting, and copied the rep at Mr. Marriott's office, asking that this matter be closed. No response, good.

Last Wednesday, a charge shows up on my credit card from the hotel for $200, and over the weekend I get an envelope in the mail form the hotel with a copy of the slip I signed when I checked into the hotel, with the note saying that I authorize all room charges highlighted.

What the heck is wrong with this hotel!!!!

wait they just charged you $200? This is crazy. you really pissed them off. WOW. I cant believe this has gone so far!

Were the 200.00 in charges valid?If not,it looks like you are going to have to dispute with the CC company.You certainly seem to have a paper trail to support your position.

This sounds like a nightmare-this property will be crossed off my list for sure.Thank you for exposing this.

Wow, a true horror story this one...

Definitely take it up with your CC, and clearly reapproach Mr Marriotts office. In the meantime I had decided to take my vacation in Phuket next year., at the JW... now I am seriously rethinking. Not so much what went wrong, but in accordance with other posters, how dreadful were your experiences to get it put right... only to find the Hotel now wants to continue the war with its guest!!

I neither have the time nor inclination for long battles, but when I get the bit between my teeth, then my view is "bring it on". However whilst many have posted about their positive experiences during the course of this thread, why set myself up for a long and bitter battle to acheive fairness if errors do occur? Marriott has many wonderful alternatives worldwide and in the current recession, no doubt other hotels will be happy to recieve my leisure business, and hopefully deal with me fairly if things go wrong, which in my experience is very rare (save problems with calculting the USD exchange rate for points... I do have to deal with that problem every 3 or 4 months, worthwhile though, just been credited 8000 points due to errors in calculations!).

I am afraid I have turned from a carefree teenager into a curmudgeonly company director, but Marriott copes well with my expectations, sometimes exceeding them (Marriott Cap d'Ail, Marriott Preston and Marriott Royal Bristol are especially good).

I run my own business in the UK and am not perfect, nor are my staff. When mistakes are made I frankly admit these to the customer, treat them fairly and reach a fair settlement, as a result all my customers are very loyal... Keeping their patronage is very important to my business. In all those cases where mistakes have been made and rectified, the customer has returned, after all, their experience shows that we can be trusted to do a good job and compensate properly if we foul up.

This hotels approach is wrong on so many different levels!!!

What the f....? This has now entered in to the realm of cuckoo land :confused:

It has been my experience in Asia, as well as in eastern Europe and in the Caribbean, that when the hotel staff, of any hotels, not just Marriott, feel that they are right, they will not want to budge. I believe that the reason for this is that their home standard of living is so much less than what they are seeing in the hotels, that they believe that the guests are already getting so much, that giving more would just be allowing the guest to have something they are not entitled to.

My guess is that you will find that $200 may represent the true cost of points which were charged back to the hotel after the problem was supposedly resolved to Emanon's satisfaction (with a bit of an assist from me) over one month ago. If this is true, then Emanon should go back to the very same person in Mr. Marriott's office and ask her to intervene again, requesting that the charge be immediately reversed, a letter of apology be sent to you, and a further amount of points be deposited in your account for the additional totally unwarranted aggravation on an issue that you had reasonably thought to be closed out and resolved!

Emanon, send me a private message if you feel the need for further advice from me on this.

Andy

I think USIrritated is correct on all accounts. I completely agree with everything he said.

So here is what has happened so far:

Last week after getting the charge and letter over the weekend, I e-mailed the contact at Mr. Marriott's office, with a screen shot of the charge and all related detail, she e-mails back first thing Monday AM saying she will take care of it ASAP.

13-Oct, Tuesday, I get an e-mail from the hotel office manager stating they would like me to send them my entire credit card statement. I get angry and post my post to Flyer Talk. Then I forward it to the contact at Mr. Marriott's office, and tell her I do not feel comfortable giving them this, and I would like her to take care of it. That I will provide anything reasonable to help.

She calls me back, and says she will contact the manager personally as soon as he gets in and take care of it.

15-Oct, this afternoon, I get a call from Chase, they got a letter from the hotel about my original dispute (Back after it was suggested here, I itemized the meals and sent copies in with a copy of the e-mail stating I would get 20% off, and Chase credited back $68.56). They say that the letter from the hotel said that I am not entitled to the 20% discount, and that they are disputing my dispute, and they included the slip that has my signature and says that I authorize any and all charges, as well as my meal receipts signed (When I asked about the discount at the restaurants, I was told it would be applied at checkout). So Chase said they have to re-charge the $68.58 back to me. I asked about the current charge for $200. They said its probably going to be the same case, and that Hotel disputes are very hard to prove.

I e-mail the contact at Mr. Marriott's office again, and explain what happened. She called me immediately and said that when she contacted the manager Tuesday night, he told her it was an accident, they meant to credit me $200 and accidentally charged me $200 instead. (I have no clue why they would credit me $200, she didn't either).

She said she will contact him again ASAP when he comes in tonight, and make sure it is resolved once and for all. That she will make them credit back the $200, as well as the $68.58 making me even. No mention of more points, but I didn't ask for any. I just want this to be done.

Thanks for listening.

Emanon,

It sounds like you will get financially whole in the end.

Hopefully, in addition, your persistence in seeking an equitable solution to this matter will prompt Marriott to look closely at customer service at this property and implement some improvements that limit the likelihood of others going through a similar experience in the future.

One can hope...

This is an amazing thread ... one thing I'd add:

Time to get a new credit card company...

In all actuality you sound a little like a weenie. If I had been slighted, and you are SURE that you have been slighted(although you don't sound completely believable), I would not hesitate in asking for EVERYTHING back, money, points AND bonus points for the inconvenience. How do they replace the time that you lost and the uncomfortable, stressful situation that they put you in? I personally have found that all foreign properties treat me better than properties in the US, although the US treatment isn't bad, and when you are handling yourself professionally and respectfully you get what you want, normally. If that doesn't work just keep going up the chain until you get satisfaction.

I have stayed at the JW and Phuket Beach Club 9 times in the past few years, which included a group of 23 (and the Royal Suite) for my 50th birthday celebration.

I read this epic thread with interest and sympathy, but the posters who say they are considering not staying at these properties because of this ONE guests complaint (however serious the guest thinks it is!) should think again. You will bne missing out on one of the best Marriotts in the World.

I have had nothing but superb customer service at these properties, and that is right from Housekeeping up to General Manager and Food and Bev Managers. The location is second to none, the facilities are wonderful, and well maintained, and the staff without exception (as far as I am concerned) are wonderful.

Only once have I ever had a small issue at the Hotel, I contacted the front desk and it was dealt with straight away, and with charm.

I will be continuing to visit on a regular basis

Well Mr. "WeenieMan," I would say that you are full of hot gas! I am quite sure that Emanon was treated exactly as he described, and he is totally believable. For similar circumstances, though other hotels, please take a look at my posting on this thread, #112. I promise you that when a hotel manager in Asia "gets his back up," he becomes inflexible, and insufferable. Since in this case I intervened on Emanon's behalf, I can assure you that this situation happened exactly as he described it. As far as asking for EVERYTHING back, Emanon didn't ask for that before, and he would not have gotten it, but considering how the hotel has acted since the matter was supposedly "settled" causing Emanon to have to dive back into the problem again, I would advise Emanon to ask for everything back and more, and have sent him a message to contact me so I can tell him how to go about doing exactly that.

PS. A word of warning to everyone, in pursuing compensation in the future, the value of Marriott Rewards points have become SERIOUSLY DILUTED, since there is no longer any REAL discount offered for longer stays. For example, it used to be that there were 7 hotel classes, and a one day stay at a class 7 (not exact) might be 35,000, two days 65,000, three days 90,000, four days 110,000, five days 125,000, six days 135,000, and one week 140,000. Now there are 8 hotel classes, and all days are the same cost, so a class 7 hotel would now be one day 35,000, two days 70,000, three days 105,000, four days 140,000, fifth day free, six days 175,000, seven days 210,000. So, an offer of compensation of 25,000 points does not go nearly as far as it used to, for whatever it's worth. For any problems serious enough to necessitate a call to Mr. Marriott's Office from now on, I would be asking for a minimum of 50,000 points, and when there are minor problems when hotels just offer 5,000 points, just to try and make a problem go away, such as HSIA not working for many hours, or housekeeping not servicing your room, 5,000 points is meaningless, up it to 10,000 or 15,000, and tell them why. Just a word to the wise....

I have disputed charges with Chase, Bank of America, Citibank, GE (Monogram), Capitol One (got rid of them years ago!), and Discover, and they all such on both credit card security and on disputes. They do not really want to adjudicate disputes fairly, they just want to get it over with as soon as they can, and they will default in favor of the merchant whenever they possibly can. By and large, they all stink!

Wow! This is truly outrageous.

I somehow missed this thread and have just read through all of it for the first time. Personally, I'd like to get my hands on the manager of the hotel and punch his lights out. The folks at MR, the spa and Chase should be in line for a good bollocking too.

While it is indeed sad how the mgmt handled that problem, my guess on the 20% dinner discount thing is that the concierge lady simply made a mistake. There is a discount for MVCI owners & Thai Gold Card holders but afaik not for MR Plat members. Given the "not losing face" thai mentality i could see why they are resistant to acknowledge they made a mistake.

Dear Emanon,
I am horrified to hear of your comments after my many, many years of being Marriott Platinum. You did NOT ask for too much. In my opinion, you asked for too little. I had a problem with the Champs Elysees Marriott in Paris (BED BUGS - yes - you heard me! The front desk saw them all over my arms & legs and credited my account with 70,000 points immediately - for only 1 night). I had a minor problem with a shuttle at one of the Marriotts in Los Angeles, and told them I did not want anything, but they credited me with 20,000 points.
I think you should be credited with a specific dollar amount on your credit card. Agree with previous post to write to Mr. Marriott - return receipt requested.
Good Luck -

Update
 

After getting home the day after my last post, I had an envelope from Chase. They said they had to end the dispute and re charge me the $68.55 because the hotel provide my signature on documentation.

The enclosed letter from the manager to chase stated that I am not entitled to the 20% off food and beverage as their e-mail states as they state I was not registered as a platinum elite guest, and never showed my card. They then state that as the restaurant receipts do not show a discount, I am not entitled to one. Yet whenever I asked they told me that the discount would be applied at checkout, and to sign the receipt with the full amount. They then state that I signed the receipt for the spa service after receiving the service proving it was 90 minutes. However, they told me I could not have the service until I signed it before. So they are blatantly lying. They also said some rather terse comments to my character.

The item that tops all of this, is that they included a copy of the original bill, where I wrote “under protest”, only the put a credit slip over where I wrote under protest, and next to it, someone attempted to forge my signature. They are indicating that this is my real signature.

I scanned and e-mailed the documents to the contact at Marriott and mentioned that this has gotten out of hand, and that this is obviously a forgery. I mentioned that I have not asked for anything more in the past than to be made whole, and reminded her that I am still out the $300 for changing the tickets, and I am not asking for that, and that I appreciate her getting me the additional 25,000 points. But at this point, I don’t think it would be out of line for me to simply ask for a refund in full for everything spent at the hotel. This was about $600. Since we stayed on points, this was just the food and beverages, spa service, and the airport transfers.

I asked her to call me upon coming into the office so we could discuss.

She e-mailed me back this morning and stated that she talked to the manager and they have reversed the $200 charge, that he still insists it was an accident, and that they have agreed to credit back the $68.55 that they forged my signature to get.

She said that unfortunately, she cannot refund the entire stay, nor can she force the hotel to do so, and that I must take this up with the hotel itself.

I called again and left her a message saying I wanted to talk to her on the phone and discuss the situation. That I would prefer to have a duologue with her directly.

I got an e-mail back (no return call) stating that she appreciates me wanting to talk to her, but that everything has been turned over to the General Manager as he is also the Regional Vice President and that he has all of my documents and that he is eager to resolve this matter in its entirety and that he will be responding to me on behalf of Mr. Marriott.

I then sent this letter, with the help of USIrritated:

Ms Contact,

While I was hoping to talk on the phone, I guess I will have to address both you and Mr. Manager via e-mail.

I would like to let you both know, that in light of the new documents I received in the mail, I feel this has gone far beyond anything that can be handled with points. I hope you were both able to see the statement where my comment had been blocked and a written version of my name has been presented as my signature.

I feel that has reached the point of absolute dishonesty from the hotel including Mr. Manager himself based on the letter he sent me dated 29-September. While I was told the charge was a mistake, it seems to me that the hotel simply wanted to get me back for having to give me points, regardless of what they are saying now, and I am shocked that Mr. Manager remains involved in light of his accusatory letter, clearly showing a conflict of interest. The letter sent to the credit card company, also states continuously that what I said was false, and has now tarnished my reputation with my own credit card company due to the hotel lying.

With the additional amount of time I have had to spend dealing with this, the situation is no longer just something that they can simply look into and make good on. I’m not doing this just to try and get points out of Marriott, I want to be made whole, and compensated for the time, aggravation, and criminal activity I have experienced. I spent money for airfare and took time off from work for both my wife and I to go on a relaxing vacation. Not only was part of our vacation upset based on this situation, but I have spent a lot of time dealing with this with the Hotel, Marriott, and the credit card company. In addition, something new seems to happen every week.

When I thought it was over, I was satisfied, not happy, but satisfied. Then the hotel had to bring this all back up again by first sending a rude letter, than accidentally charging me. So if they are taking it to the next level, then I need to do so as well, and expect Marriott Corporate to respond in kind.

So I ask that your office step up, and stop passing the buck. First, I would like an apology for the forgery from the hotel and for the way the hotel handled themselves during this situation. This letter would include outlining what they did wrong. Secondly, I would like some type of in kind compensation for having to pay my airfare to go on a vacation that was so bad we had to walk out of the hotel, as well as for the amount of time I have had to spend over the past 6 months. While I do not expect to get paid my hourly rate, I expect Marriott to do something to take care of this situation.

I did not go to a Marriott Flag Ship hotel expecting to be treated poorly, taken advantage of, and then have my signature forged. Would you expect that at a JW Marriott? If this were my company, this manger would be investigated and the responsible party fired. If this were in the US I would also be pressing charges.

So I hope that you and your office take this very seriously, and if necessary even involve Mr. Marriott himself. But I would like to know that Marriott Corporate is willing to step up and take responsibility for its problems, and have them solved.

Sincerely,
Emanon256

The GM wrote me back a few days later.

He stated that he would like to re-cap the compensation he already gave me. 50,000 for the two nights, an additional 25,000, 30% off the cooking class, and now $68 representing the 20% food dispute.

He added that as I maintain their compensatory actions are are still insufficient, that a gesture of good will, an in light of the distress I clam to be experiencing, he will refund all but $200 of my total charges, in recognition that we have differing prospectives on the events that occurred.

He said he investigated the fraud claim, and has found that nothing was done wrong. He believes that I may have mistakenly concluded that the hotel was fraudulent. He said that when I checked in, an imprint of my card was taken, and that I agreed that I would pay for all charges with an imprint of my card. He said when I checked out in haste, and wrote under protest on the bill, that that does not negate my agreement to pay any and all folio charges or that the hotel can charge my visa, as I previously agreed to pay.

He said as "under protest" does not mean anything, the manager followed procedures and proceeded to charge my card, in full, as my signature was on file.

He said no one from the hotel signed my name, that it was written, so there was no dishonesty.

He then states that he feels they have gone a long way to make me "even" in accordance with my request to Mr. Marriott's office.

He then states that he is very sorry that I did not have a good experience on my visit and he hopes I realize that this extraordinary set of circumstances will not be repeated in the future.


I don't really think this can be categorized as an apology, but more of a subtle personal attack, and a non-direct apology. I am not sure what to do at this point. No reply from the contact at Mr Marriott's, despite a follow up call. Nothing has been credited back yet. I really do want to get this behind me. But I still feel, while he does not, that they were dishonest. Basically, I got back points for the 2 nights I didn't stay, 25,000 extra, and now about 66% of what I spent.

I spend more nights at Marriott's per year, than I do at my own home, and am shocked that Mr.Marriott's office is remaining silent.

I e-mailed the contact again this weekend, and have still not received a reply. If I don't in a week, I am going to send a letter directly to Mr,. Marriott only, return receipt, copy some travel forums and magazines, and then try to put it all behind me.

Give it up. Just accept what happened and move on. Either continue to stay at Marriott in spite of the fact that you had this one very bad stay or switch brands.

Frankly, this would be way too draining for me to continue to pursue.

Bobette

I have seen issues similar to what you, Emanon, experienced. People who advised they never have a problem with this particular resort need to understand and remember one important thing: Unfortunately, Asian service culture mostly is designed to provide fantastic, spotless and admirable service only until something will go wrong. It may not be a fault of one particular service representative, but for some unknown cultural factors, all activities after the incident would likely be directed to
a) attempts to prevent face loss (e.g. proving that they are right and you are wrong)
b) denial
c) containment (attempts to solve issue locally without escalation outside of particular organization)... needless to say that these attempt are almost always laughable due to a) and b) above and mostly are directed on wearing off a claimant and hope he/she abandons efforts.
4) discrediting the claimant by trying to show claimant erred in some other things not connected to the incident, therefore claimant can not be trusted with correct description of the incident itself
5) intransingence to make good, even if requested by higher authority (e.g. WHQ).
6) retaliation (sometimes petty retaliation like nasty letter, sometimes not so petty like charging your credit card twice - again laughable, but it happens even if they think they can not reasonably expect to get away with it).

So absence of the issue in the past (or in your current stay) doesnt absolutely mean you would not have issue on your next stay, even if that would be in different hotel or outside Marriott chain. So I wouldnt recommend anyone to remove this hotel from their travel list as situation like this can happen anytime, at any hotel. There are some exceptions to this however they are infrequent and far apart (having Expat GM usually helps).

I can only sympathise to Emanon who, as it seem, experienced all of that, however Emanons experience reconciles well with what I have experienced during my trips.

AX

Again a bust. I got the return receipt Saturday with some random name scribbled, though I did send it restricted delivery. And today I get a letter from the same Rep in Utah saying she will be responding on Mr. Marriott's behalf. (I am guessing ti was scanned since I send it to Corporate).

In the letter to Mr. Marriott, I stressed what I was out in time, loss of credibility, etc. and that the number one thing I was after was a sincere apology outlining exactly what they did wrong. That that was more important than any amount of money or points.

Her reply almost appeared like a form letter. It stated that I got the 50,000 points back for the two nights, the extra 25,000 points, and that the hotel assures her they refunded any and all additional and disputed charges (They still have not).

She then says that while she appreciates my request for additional compensation, that Marriott International believes that the above mentioned gestures of good will were fully adequate and appropriate for the problems I experienced. There for there will be no further compensation from the property or Marriott International related to this matter.

She closes in saying that they appreciate my patronage as hope I understand their position as well.

I am at a loss. The net of the additional charges less the refunds I did receive, plus the original charges, is basically what my initial charges were, after the discount I was supposed to receive. So basically I am 25,000 points ahead, and got the discount applied, that was already supposed to be applied. And a while mess of trouble and aggravation.

I think this is underly ridiculous, and when I find some free time will send the story to the travel magazines, but I am just shocked at their lack of response.

I feel that I really need to never stay at a Marriott Property again after this, which will be difficult as they have a lot of locations and many of them are good properties. But if the corporate office doesn't help when there is a problem, why risk it. Such a waste of already earning platinum for the next two year with the roll over nights.

Great idea and now stick to it!

^

I think you have done as much as you could and probably way more than most people would have done. It is clear that you are not going to leave this incident feeling well treated. That is a shame.

At this point, I think you need to stop wasting your valuable time on people who won't take responsbility for their actions (or their agents' actions). You have at least four choices:

1. Suck it up and continue staying at Marriott's;
2. Stay at your favorite Marriott's but move the rest of your business elsewhere;
3. Letting them know that you will be withholding $X thousands of dollars of business before you will return to any Marriott property; or
4. Write off Marriott entirely as a matter of principle and letting them know that you will be doing so (but you really need to stick to this).

I like Option 3. I've done this once in the past where I was out $X due to something that a vendor (to whom I was quite loyal) should have corrected and was having difficulty stepping up to do the right thing. I estimated the margin that the vendor got (very low in their industry) and told him that unless they refunded $X, I'd be shifting all business to their competitor until I'd supplied at least twice that margin $ to their competitor. Then I'd reconsider which vendor to use. $X was not big but at 2% or 5% margin (or something like that) the revenue loss was meaningful. I got an immediate email back saying that they'd credit $X to my account.

But, whatever you choose, it is time to let the thing go emotionally.

At the risk of being contradicted online, some have posted on FlyerTalk that they have had better success with American Express backing them up in billing disputes than the Average Large Credit-Card Issuing Bank. Perhaps others can comment on Amex relevant experiences.

What a disappointment! I have been following this thread since the start and I just wanted to thank the OP for keeping us (or me :)) updated on what's been going on.

I had a very small dispute with some tickets I purchased from a concierge at a Hilton in Manhattan (which wasnt even owned/operated by Hilton) and they were absolutely fabulous at helping me resolve the issue - and I think I was maybe a midtier elite at the time.

It's really hard to image myself in the OP's position - and I am really unimpressed with Marriott's lack of response. I would've hoped that they would've been more proactive with their response. Phone calls are very easy to make - and when a phone call is requested I think a call back is in order. Also, the fact that the credits have not posted would've really put me over the edge.... And lets not even get started on the forgery bit.....

Amen. Isn't the continued effort costing something in some way so why keep pursuing what appears to be a lost cause? I can appreciate the larger principles involved but if the top of the food chain isn't willing to entertain your requests maybe it's time to move on and decide what actions you are willing to take as a result of the way you feel the situation has been handled or mishandled as the case may be.

BTW I'm not suggesting there aren't times when you have to fight the good fight just that there are also times when it's wise IMHO to call a ceasefire.

From the merchant's perspective, AMEX is usually a lose-lose situation. Their interchange rates (rates they charge merchants) are higher than MC/VISA and they tend to be more pro-Consumer in chargeback disputes. Good for consumers, bad for merchants.

That said, my family has lost 1 legitimate AMEX dispute (overcharging on a cruise ship) and 0 Chase/Citi MC/VISA disputes. :(

In 1978, I bought a new car from a manufacturer universally acclaimed for its quality and reliability.

The car was a lemon from the get go. Just about everything that could go wrong went wrong. Some months, the car spent more time at the dealer than it did in my garage.

At first, the manufacturer was very accommodating, but always with the caveat, "This issue isn't really covered under the warranty..."

At 25K miles (after fastidiously adhering to all maintenance requirements), the engine began to burn oil at an alarming rate. The manufacturer refused to do anything for me, suggesting the problem was the result of abuse on my part.

Shortly afterward, I got rid of that car. I moved on, so to speak. In the 28 years since, I have bought 20 new cars - none of them from that manufacturer.

Only the spoken word is "slander." Only falsehoods are 'slander."

Overall a terrible story... Support OP.

I have been supportive of the OP from the beginning, in private messages, and on the phone, and I will continue to be. I am a Marriott loyalist from way back, and I will also continue to be that. However, when something such as this happens, something so egregious as what has been done to the OP, I will not be a defender of Marriott, I will do everything possible to see that the OP comes out at least even, and actually, what he should be, ahead, in the end, for the extensive stress and time he has had to put in to correct this inexcusably horrific situation caused by Marriott and Marriott's employees.