Jonu,

I would call Marriott Reservations and see what they can do to correct the situation if you haven't done so already. Please let us know their response and the outcome.

There is no reason for this under the new rules. You also may want to let Marriott Concierge know about this, but then again they are at the mercy of their puppet masters; but even then it will be interesting to see what that liar Ed French has to say about this.

Sure there is. There are no "blackout dates" (meaning no awards are ever available), but "limited awards" (meaning they offered one room for points) is fine. So the very few number of awards allowed that weekend are already gone.

That's hugely different from the "if a standard room can be reserved for cash, it can be reserved with points, even if it's the last mega-expensive room" that SPG has and MR is implying (but not actually providing) in the program announcement.

What a MR rep said (either here or on the MR elite board, I forget) was that on dates when award rooms were limited, the number of award rooms would be at least the same as the number of award rooms available on standard nights under the old system. So it may not be a huge number, but it should be more than one.

And the SPG program only offers "last-standard-room-availability": if the last standard room is mega-expensive, you can have it, but if the standard rooms are all sold and the hotel only has suites or upgrade rooms left, you are out of luck.

That said, the reality of the MR program does fall short of what SPG offers.

I'd like to see official word on that, and some facts to back it up. Anecdotal evidence posted here seems to be counter to that statement.

Thus my statement: "if a standard room can be reserved"... I've stayed at Steamboat during Xmas week twice, reserving just a few months in advance both times, so I've never run into standard rooms being sold out.

I still find this to be much, much more valuable than even the supposed MR benefit - same (limited) availability as before but no blackout dates. [I don't remember ever even worrying about blackout dates - were they waved for PLT's?]. Certainly not enough to ofset a 30% decline in my points' value.

Okay, searched some, and here is the post I recalled. Whether it counts as "official", and whether the reality matches what was promised back in October, I cannot say.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/10585525-post259.html

Thanks for the reference. At least now I know the "semi-official, how it's supposed to work" story. Of course, there's no way to know whether this is actually happening.

Anyone remember how many blackout days there typically were per year, and whether PLT/GLD were exempt? Even if this availability is true, I don't see it being equal to my 30-40% drop. And from OP and other questions, the messaging obviously left some people thinking it was an SPG-equivalent availability change - not even close.

I can't answer most of your questions, but I can say that PLT/GLDs were not exempt from blackout dates. Though I will say that the number of Blackout days could greatly vary between properties. If I remember correctly the Camelback Inn actually Blackedout almost 6 months of the year. Others may not have had any Blackout days.

And as I mentioned earlier, I tend to agree that Marriott's advertising/wording was very easy to misinterpret.

7 more nights to finish my big megabonus then SPG, here I come. I started staying in Marriotts in October of last year, will hit Platinum next week. I'm not interested in being jerked around, though, so I'll head back to SPG, where I'm also platinum.

Good job on that one, Marriott. Hope those few bucks you save here and there help.

I'd rather have real no blackouts, always have room availability, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, No Blackout is disingenuous. Unless it can be proven that more point rooms are available (or at least the same amount) on any given night, it is no better than listing an Ebay auction described as "No Reserve!", but with a starting bid > 0.

Try a little harder, it really does work out!
 

You realize of course that in some locations, such as just about any of the Hawaii resorts, and many of the Caribbean resorts, on certain peak days, if the number of reward rooms was not limited, that on certain dates of the year, those hotels would not have any paying guests, right? While I recognize that many of you feel that there is some sort of a con or bait and switch going on, but, that if you put some serious effort into what you want, you can almost always get it, or something very close to it, right?

On several occasions, I have wanted to go to resort or high demand locations using points and was not immediately able to find exactly what I wanted on the first try. However, I kept at it, and asked for help from a competent and professional rez agent, who was willing to work within my parameters, and to research it for me, and who was also willing to call some of the hotels I wanted to go to bat for me, to get that hotel to grant a Platinum member (me) a reward night or two when availability was not showing in the system because rewards nights had sold out already. After a day or two in each instance, I almost always got a call back with a successful result. In each and every case, when I finally got to those hotels, the hotels were sold to full capacity, so I certainly understand why they have to limit the number of rewards nights they will grant, as opposed to rooms they will sell the normal way. I have gotten the rooms that I wanted for the JW Marriott Ihilani Resort at Ko Olina (one of my favorite hotels in the world) for January high season, for the Renaissance Aruba Resort & Casino for the super high demand week between Christmas and New Years, for Renaissance Vendome in Paris another of my favorite hotels in the world, and several other high demand places*, including for Christmas/New Years week, and without using the STAY ANYTIME double points awards, which I REFUSE to use, ever! In some of the cases, when I actually got to the check in counter, even though the hotels were booked full, I still got a room upgrade, even though I was not necessarily expecting it, because the hotels were booked full, or because they were resorts, and I was technically not eligible, etc. Okay, true, I had to put a few hours of effort into it, but it was well worth it, and I have no complaints about being able to use my points. Now, I did have a complaint about using points in Hawaii for the ISLAND HOPPER AWARDS, but that is another matter, and not about using the points themselves, but about how the points are actually redeemed, and even that worked out, and the part of that which was a hassle was compensated to me in the end by Bill Marriott's office anyway, to my satisfaction, so I don't even have a beef there anymore.

I have had similar experiences, though much more difficult, and sometimes impossible, with airline frequent flyer tickets in business or first to Europe or Asia. Talking about limited seating! Sometimes there is only one seat in business or first per flight, available for miles, so it is impossible for two people to travel together, using miles, to more desireable locations.

Oh, and keep something in mind that is very important.....both MI, and the individual hotels in the chain, need to make money, and no matter what we think about the number of rooms that should be available for reward stays on a given night, it will always be more than the hotels and MI have calculated they can handle in order for them to maintain profitability in the present terrible economic climate. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, and Hilton, Hyatt, and SPG are not that much different, whether you believe it or not, because they also need to remain profitable, and what they giveth with the right hand, you'd better believe they will taketh away with the left, in one method or another. That is how profit is maintained, or loss is prevented in this case, or maybe you would prefer, that is how a happy medium is maintained.


So, to sum it all up, go ahead, beef all you want, but in my opinion, it is mostly sour grapes, because if you put a little bit of effort into it, and ask nicely, with Marriott, you can, and usually will get what you want for rewards stays.




*I earn in the US, typically, at $250 per night and less, and burn my points at the expensive hotels, $400 per night and more, in Hawaii, the islands, and Europe, also including Renaissance Chancery Court (London), Renaissance Amsterdam, Rome Marriott Grand Hotel Flora, Marriott Frenchman's Reef & Morning Star Resort St. Thomas, USVI (also the week between Christmas & New Years), etc.

I'm fine with the no black out dates. As I understand it. Hotels could arbitrarily black out dates or set the number of rooms that were available for award.

Under Starwood's no blackout dates, it meant that the hotels has to request that certain special dates were exempt from the rules. I assume Marriott works the same way.

If that's true, then its fair. It would be very unfair to a hotel to have to accept points during very high occupancy events such as Obama's inauguration.

This is incorrect. Only base "standard" rooms are at issue here. Looking at your example of a Hawaii (or virtually any other beach location for that matter). A standard room won't include a room with any type of upgraded view. Therefore, only "garden views" are available. Mountain views, Ocean views, Ocean Fronts are all excluded from being part of the "standard" offering. Also, any upgraded room based on other criteria like suites, corner, possibly balcony or types of rooms are also excluded. And finally, any rooms that are part of "packages" that might include food or extra ameneties would also be excluded. Note that after we exclude all these rooms, at that Hawaii location we are looking at, there aren't really that many rooms left.

And note that this has been a noted problem in the SPG forum as some hotels will try and figure out a way to make virtually every room in the hotel into some type of "special" room. And this also doesn't preclude any hotel from taking Upgrade awards to some of those "special" rooms which most of the Hawaii and other beach hotels do take, but there are no stated stipulations on how many of those rooms they have to allow upgrade awards into.

What are we really talking about here? The issue at stake is no blackout dates for elites, right? If you are polite about this, and willing to work with them, there is a way around this, at least if you are Plat, and probably if you are Gold, at least that is my experience. The simple fact of the matter is that non-elite customers are probably NOT going to be able to get into the very best resort and hotel locations without using premium rewards, unless they are extraordinarily lucky. However, for elite members, if you are flexible on dates, or if you are willing to pay the upgrade premiums, there are ways to work it out. In my case, I specifically requested the basic no view, no upgrade room for Marriott Kauai Resort & Beach Club, Hawaii, and stated, that if there is an upgrade available when I check in, due to my Platinum status, that I request it, otherwise, no view and no upgrade would be fine with me, I do not wish to pay premium points (or cash) for an upgrade, which would cost me an extra 40,000 points for my stay there. I was accommodated accordingly. When I got to Kauai, I was put in an ocean/pool view room, without paying extra points for the benefit. Basically, it had a full view of the pool, which was beautiful (the largest pool in all of Hawaii), and a side view of the ocean, and a full view of lots of mountains. I had no complaints about the view at all, or the upgrade. It worked out fine for me. On a side note, I had other issues with that hotel, unrelated to blackout dates or upgrades or views, having to do with service, courtesy, how they treated their guests, how they were informed about their service hours and in house restaurant choices, etc. (how could they not know the hours of their own restaurant for goodness sakes?) and received a full apology from the hotel. The morning after I arrived, Bill Marriott came through on an inspection tour. The hotel was due for a total refurbishment in my opinion, it was more than a bit frayed around the edges. At Ko Olina on Oahu, I was upgraded to a suite with a full ocean, pool view, dead center, tenth floor, and did not pay any premium for it whatsoever, and the manager comped breakfast for me too, without me asking. That is a fantastic hotel, in case anyone wants a recommendation. I would go back there in a heart beat. As a comparison, after spending several days at Ko Olina, I had to come back to the real world and work at a business conference, which was at Hilton Hawaiian Village, which I would NEVER, EVER choose to stay at, or pay for, with money or points, unless I had to, such as business reasons. It has been my experience that Marriott and Renaissance Hotels are, on balance, nicer, and certainly more abundant, than other chains, compared one chain to another, and when you throw in Marriott's loyalty program, the others pale in comparison. As an example, Hilton sucks. I can't tell you how many points Hilton has stolen from me over the years, and I don't even want to hear any disclaimers or excuses from anyone about where, why, or how I could have done this or that to prevent it from happening. Marriott is just better by my own comparison, and I have always been extremely well treated. However, YMMV, and, my experience could change, you just never know, do you?

Employee interpretation
 

I was recently on a Webinar with Marriott Vacation Club. The presentation was to cover how MCVI owners could better use the Rewards program to their advantage. I asked the moderator about the new Blackout policy and her response (which I saved) was that "as long as there is a standard room available for a paying customer, it was available for point redemption."

Obviously MI has not done a good job at conveying the nuances of the program changes to their own.

I am not surprized, this was a plan to jack up the points needed for reward stays