oshkrozz

In my early days of travel (15 years ago) courtyards were almost always 25% - 40% less than FS Marriotts, and the other option was a Farefield Inn (some of those are really scary) I traveled around the USA and the courtyards were designed to pretty much look the same and offer the same things (Free Internet was added quickly as well) and are meant for people spending 1 -2 nights in the area and moving on. They always had a fitness room with a two old treadmills and maybe something else, and most had a pool and hot pool, but many lower end hotels did not and for me that was important.
After a few years they upgraded the breakfast options, and they are fairly decent even though you have to pay. When you travel out of the USA and learn what breakfast can be the sad bread with holes (assuming they are supposed to be bagels) oatmeal, tasteless fruit, some mystery meat and eggs although free, is not nearly appealing as something else, and the courtyard breakfast is in-line with many corporate per-Diem spending.
Residence Inn upgraded the rooms and expanded to many cities and I much prefer them over the courtyard (However, you get fewer points), they are pretty much the same except you get a kitchenett or kitchen, and now I just go to the store buy steaks and make them on the grill at the Residence Inn. (Springhill suits is a full point options if they are around)
In short:
Advantages of Courtyard:
Less expensive than FS
Overall consistent experience
Offers a decent breakfast option
Disadvantage:
Breakfast is not free
Residence Inns / Springhill Suites in cities are a better brand (Outside of cites they are much more for families, and will have many)

Horace

Popularity can be measured mny ways. Size is more easily quantified.

Courtyard is Marriott's largest brand in terms of the number of hotels, but not the number of rooms.

According to https://hotel-development.marriott.c...nds/courtyard/

There are 1,127 Courtyard properties open, with total of 166,706 rooms.
There are 278 Courtyard properties in the pipeline, with total of 48,614 rooms.

According to https://hotel-development.marriott.com/brands/marriott/

There are 558 Marriott Hotels properties open, with total of 198,612 rooms.
There are 151 Marriott Hotels in the pipeline, with total of 43,677 rooms.

As to which brand is Marriott's "most profitable," I suppose that would depend on how you measure profitability. Marriott International receives a royalty fee based on gross room sales. With more rooms and a higher RevPAR, it would seem that the Marriott Hotels brand drives more revenue for Marriott International, and probably more to bottom line profitability. For hotel owners, I would not be surprised if Courtyard provides better profit margins -- and possibly even the best average profit margins of any Marriott brand.

pinniped

I will admit: I didn't know there were that many Courtyards!! I was thinking more about size than profitability, and it's clear that no matter how you slice it it's among their biggest brands.

I remember on the HH board, there was a discussion about how Hampton had the highest margins of any brand in the portfolio. You can build them fast and operate them cheap (comparatively). Probably a true concept across most of the limited-service realm.

Horace

I guess I don't see Courtyard as the lone "brand right in the middle of the Marriott lineup where elite status means nothing."

How are other Marriott "select service" brands -- Fairfield Inns, SpringHhill Suites, AC Hotels, Moxy Hotels -- better for Rewards Elite guests than Courtyard? Does status really mean "something" at these?

Fairfield and SpringHill include breakfast in the room rate for all guests. AC and Moxy do not include breakfast for any guests (unless the guest has booked a special room rate that includes breakfast).

Fairfield Inns properties tend to upgrade elite guests to "suites" (rooms that somewhat similar to Springhill Suites rooms), which is nice, but which can usually be booked for only slightly more than a basic room. Most Springhill Suites properties have only cookie-cutter rooms, so there's there's normally zero opportunity to upgrade elite guests (beyond providing the more desirable side of the building.)

In the U.S. and Canada, Courtyard and AC Hotels at least provide a better Platinum arrival gift: 400 bonus points AND a Food or Beverage Amenity, compared to 200 bonus points OR Food & Beverage Amenity at Fairfield Inn and Moxy Hotels.

DELee

Looking back at the statistics thread from earlier this year (Marriott and Ritz-Carlton Property Worldwide Statistics), I'd found 1130 CYs out of 4897 MR properties.

I'll update the thread again but looking now at Marriott's (better/legacy) hotel search website as of today (12/19/17), it shows 5212 MR hotels around the world and, of those, 1173 are CYs = 22.5% of all MR hotels worldwide.

For the United Statians, you can filter down and find there are 4107 MR properties. Of those, 984 are CYs = 24% of all US hotels: almost one quarter of all US MR properties. I'll let those who are interested to find out what the CY statistics are by state if you want or, for those who are ROW (rest of the world), how many MR properties are in your neck of the woods/forests/trees and how many and percentages are CYs.

Yep. There are a lot of CYs. Unfortunately for MR elites, you don't get much going to these hotels. But they are everywhere.

As a HHonors Surpass Diamond, I would likely pick a Hampton Inn over a CY, all things being equal. As a MR Platinum Premier working toward my Lifetime Platinum status, I'll stay at a CY if I have to, but not because of what it offers WRT "good value" compared to MR's other brands. As an elite in both HH and MR, I'd go with the HI.

David

CJKatl

If I weren't elite, I'd still choose SHS or FI over CY. Of course there are some exceptions where there might be a very good CY (Ft Wayne, DC actually has three) or CY might be the only option, or the FI might have room doors directly to the outside, but on average, the mattresses and linens are okay at the SHS/FI, the room layout is as good or better and the free breakfast is fast, easy, hassle free and will always have bananas and bread. It's not just that you have to pay for breakfast, it's the darn microwave Bistro and the stingy coffee policy. So while I'm not getting anything extra as an elite at at SHS/FI over a CY, it's just an easier hotel for me as a guest.

pinniped

Perhaps I should rephrase: I think of Courtyard as one of Marriott's primary brands, alone in the middle of the "heritage" lineup in terms of getting no elite benefits. We're about to have 30-whatever brands in a combined program and there are certainly lots of others with no elite benefits (Ritz, the timeshare brands, etc.).

If there are one day 1000 AC and 1000 Moxy, then perhaps I'll think of them differently. I've stayed in Moxy and actually quite enjoyed it - I went out of my way to try it, knowing full well that I'd get no benefits by staying there. I felt it was unique enough that I've actually gone back two more times, consciously trading breakfast for free pinball and videogames (we all have our price ). Again, if there were hundreds of them my perception might change: I can't really say. I give Moxy a pass because it's weird and cool. Courtyard is not.

When I've stayed in Spain to date, it's been in FS Marriotts and Westins. I have no opinion about AC, other than I'm glad it's there as a mid-category option. I've seen a couple new ones outside of Spain, but have not yet tried one.

hhoope01

I find it very interesting as I get suite upgrades at CYs far more often than any other Marriott brand. While I tend to prefer FS hotels which have lounges, the one thing I really like about CYs are their King Suites. I almost always get an upgrade to a King suite (though in fairness I almost always have to ask for it as well.) But I can't remember the last time I asked for a suite upgrade and I didn't get it (assuming they had suites available of course.) I really like that they have a separate temp control for each room. It lets me crank down the temp in the bedroom while leaving the living room area comfortable.

And as for the restaurant, I guess that isn't as much of an issue for me as I very rarely eat at a hotel restaurant. They tend to be expensive and quite often not that good. So I don't tend to have that extra "tax" you have.

I will agree that HGIs have a much better breakfast (and I guess the restaurant though I've never eaten anything other than breakfast at one.) But I've never (even with about 4 years as a Diamond) been upgraded to a two room suite at an HGI. They've upgraded me to a Jr suite, which has more room, but doesn't provide that temperature separation a true 2-room suite allows. When I was travelling to Overland Park monthly for a few years, I could choose the CY next to the Sheraton conference center or the HGI right next to it. Other than for a bit while the CY was being renovated, I usually would go with the CY over the HGI because I'd almost always get a suite. Note that as a business traveler my meals were paid for, so free breakfast and an HGI having a restaurant wasn't really a big deal to me. There were lots of other "better" breakfast/lunch/dinner places I tended to hit than the hotel restaurant.

pinniped

To be honest, I don't eat at Courtyard often, nor do I actually have to stay at them often to begin with.

Denver was one example though. They were next door to our office, we had a nice corporate rate with them, and the 16th Street Mall is a place where I don't mind taking a little walk for breakfast. They had opened this nice Courtyard there with a pretty good restaurant (not just the usual bistro). Well, okay "good" means "decent enough as a lunch spot" and "nice selection of craft brews on tap for happy hour", not Michelin star or anything. You would think the hotel would want to entice guests to use it: we pay a bit of a hotel premium for everything on the menu, but at a full-service hotel we get some points back for that. Yet there, within walking distance of 50 other things, I hardly ever went in there because of the no-points thing.

Seattle was another example of a place where I might have grabbed a beer at the hotel more often if were earning points.

I don't eat a lot of meals in hotels because I too like to explore the surrounding area, but at FS properties I'm more likely to grab a beer, appetizer, etc. Or if I arrive late on the first night, have a burger at the bar. With newer Courtyards building out these kinds of bars/restaurants, why not include them for earning points?

hhoope01

Maybe things will change when the new "merged" program is rolled out. I've always thought that Marriott didn't include non-rate room charges as they wanted to keep the general costs down for both building/deploying a new CY (non-FS hotel) and for day-to-day management (i.e. not having to spend on putting in a restaurant). Having a restaurant increases the costs for both. And they probably thought the CY "market" would tend to go out more than they would eat at the hotel restaurant or order room service. Basically, the cost of putting a restaurant in to a CY hotel would cost more than any extra revenue it might generate.

I probably stayed more than 1000 nights at CYs during the first half of the 90s (and none of those nights show up on my lifetime status either. ) Back then I can remember having corporate rates in the $40 or less range. I doubt the hotel's were running with huge profit margins at those rates. So anything that helped reduce the building and management costs would be key to profitability. So no restaurant and no need for charging much to the room. And if that is your corporate hotel model and it worked very well (back in the 90s and earlier), changing can be hard.

I'm guessing they know their market better than we know it (though we may think we know it very well). Maybe things have changed in the last 20 years given from your statement Marriott is putting restaurants now in to CYs or maybe it hasn't and those CYs with restaurants are exceptions to the standard, but in any case, it will be interesting to see what the new Marriott program will look like when it is rolled out.

SkiAdcock

Yawn on the CYs don't provide free brekkie. FTers have been complaining for years, but CY does find w/o providing it so Marriott isn't going to change it. From what I've read on the financials, CYs are very good to MAR. FWIW - it's only elites who kvetch. I have lots of friends/relatives (not elite) who like CY & don't say a word about no free brekkie. Suites can be had, but may take pro-active asking.

Cheers.

s0ssos

You can still get the $50 guarantee after checkout. At least I did. They didn't give me my free food/beverage (rather, they charged me, and when I called to get them to refund it they did nothing (front desk clerk said he'll take care of it, a week later charge still on my card). So instead of wasting time further I just contacted Marriott saying I never got my benefits).

CJKatl

For me, and I believe some others, it's not that breakfast isn't free, it's that The Bistro makes breakfast inconvenient. And horrible. But inconvenient is the bigger issue. You have to wait in line behind the guy getting something that has to be microwaved in order to pay for your banana. The cream cheese is regulated instead of being self serve. If you order anything hot you have to sit and wait. Even coffee is a wait-in-line event now, and no, I'm not fooling around with potchkied toilet coffee in the room. What is a two minute grab and go at an RI/FI/SHS/FS/Ren/JW turns into a time drain at a CY. When CY had the buffet, you could be out quickly.

Nobody questions my breakfast charge, but I still dislike The Bistro.

sannmann

The lack of breakfast at CY is one reason to be loyal to Hilton Honors instead. Honors Gold and higher get free breakfast at HGI, which is Hilton’s competitor for CY.

soy

Ha, Ha, as evidenced by the fact that this is a 10yr old thread that sprang back into life a couple of days ago.
It seems the complaints in 2017 are the same as in 2007, wonder what we will be saying in 2027