I believe everyone understands that to be the issue which is why the process is changing

BTW: Your Club Marquis Benefits (edited to add Marriott Reward Elite member for you youngins :)) do not vary by the rate which you were charged; ie if your a platinum member and staying on a wholesaler rate you will still receive your benefits but not stay credit or points on room & tax

Personally I've changed my view on this over the years...at the end I never cared much for this, I understood it's reasoning but thought the thought process was flawed for exactly the reason you state above, government travelers aren't able to use it so I've always believed the guests paying the rate are the ones who arent eligible in the first place

Absolutely correct.

I would argue that a Platinum Premier who uses rates that he is not entitled is one of the WORST customers. He's not just getting a one-time "real good deal", he's taking up rooms at a very low-margin (or perhaps even negative margin) rate at least 75 times a year!

Understood that. Also, the VIP does get points/nights credit (I understand you were giving a different example, just don't want anyone confused).

It's a great deal for me -- allows me to stay in a full Marriott where many time I would otherwise stay at a CY because of the room rate.

How would you define a negative marging in hotels perspective?

Most of the rates are capacity controlled. If the hotel is relatively full they are not offered at all.

Isn't there a way for Marriott to just put the Gov rate in the users profile and be done with it? So far, for all my '07 stays, I've been asked by 6 properties for my Gov ID. I have the ID, but find it annoying to have to go digging for it all the time along with my CC, elite card, etc.. Why not just put it in my profile and call it a day.

Perhaps a better example would be speeding down the freeway, if you there are no cops present a few will drive as fast as they wish but as soon as the person suspects one is around they usually will immediately slow down to the speed limit....just because the police officer wasn't present when the person was speeding doesn't reduce the fact that the person was speeding

:D I love you guys....

The reason I said Platinum Premier in my hypothetical example is that a PP has been determined to be one of Marriott's BEST customers overall. In my example, I never said whether the person was a government employee or not. It just "looked suspicious". My question was how the front desk would handle it in a way that would not ailenate a known good customer. Most of the respondents missed that point completely.

As for "negative margin", Marriott sells thousands of GOV rates every day. If they didn't want/couldn't handle the business, they wouldn't offer the rate.

To that, as I mentioned before here, I sat next to Marriott VP from marketing on a UA flight recently. She stated to me that if a hotel doesn't offer a certain rate to a company, it means they are doing very well at that location, business wise. On the opposite side of that, if they are offering the rate, they need the business. Trust me guys...this is Marriott we are talking about here. These room rates are so inflated regardless of what they charge, they are still profitable. Besides...at the FS properties, you get nickel and dimed to death and back (internet, parking, etc.) Marriott ain't hurtin.

Generally true.

Not necessarily true. Perhaps the company books a LOT during slow periods and has exchanged that for a last-room-available guarantee. Consider it to be like a loss-leader at retail.

If it were only that simplistic. Competitive factors enter into the equation. The typical hotel has a pretty high fixed cost (especially the lower priced hotels)... once that cost is met, there is a stepped-fixed/variable cost (housekeepers, for example, because once you reach a certain number of rooms occupied, you have to have another)... and a variable cost per room (laundry, soap, shampoo, etc). The goal, of course, is to come out profitable. You can't do that with only one room occupied (fixed costs eat it up), or a few rooms occupied. On the other hand, if your rate is so low that the entire hotel fills but no profits are earned, the rate is too low.

The problem is not much different than an airline or an entertainment venue (where the artist receives a guarantee that is a substantial percentage of the gate). In the case of an entertainment venue/promoter, most of the profit is generated from ancillaries.

Hotels are a competitive business with a strong cyclical cycle. Right now, the economy is strong, and there is a lot of business and leisure travel. This is the time for hotels to rake in the money. As Global_Hi_Flyer noted, hotels have high fixed costs.

Competition also forces hotels to remodel their rooms and common areas, and this must be paid for from operating cash flow. Construction costs have increased with higher commodity prices in recent years, and Bill Marriott is not going to be making up the difference.

The hotel industry is financially healthy. In the long run, we all benefit from that instead of having a race to the bottom for customer service that the airlines have. When employees are insecure about their futures, it has a definite impact on customer service. People on FT can talk about domestic airlines needing to improve customer service, but it won't happen until those companies are profitable for a consistent period of time.

This whole 'government rates above maximum per diem means the only people taking advantage of them aren't eligible' thing is patentily false.

(1) you can book more expensive accomodations and receive reimbursement for the maximum per diem (covering the difference yourself)

(2) sometimes the federal amounts are just wrong, and there is a procedure in place to get an area amount changed (though admittedly this is hardly a worthwhile endeavor)

(3) perhaps most importantly, you can get approval for actual expenses up to 300% of the normal allowable amounts under 5 U.S.C. 5707... see http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/cha...html#wp1089951

A hotel doesn't have to make any government rates available, or it might make some available over the standard amount recognizing that many government travelers won't go through the necessary hoops to take advantage of them... but they still offer gov't travelers a discount in periods of peak demand.

Undoubtedly use of the rates drops sharply when they're above the standard reimbursement amounts but that DOES NOT MEAN that anyone actually using the rates is doing so illegitimately.

No, but it means that virtually no government employees will book that rate. Sure anybody is free to pay for their own business travel for their employer, but what percentage of business travelers opt to do this? The idea that government, or any other non-self employed workers, are going to pay for travel on behalf of their employer out of their own pocket is ludicrous.

By the way, getting approval for over the per diem travel is not, as you imply, as simple as just asking for it.

The fact is that virtually no government employee on official business will use over per diem hotel rates. And the fact is that most travelers utilizing over per diem government rates are not entitled to them. The hotels offer them because they don't give a hoot whether the person occupying the room is government or not, as long as the rate charged betters the bottom line. If they have the rooms available, the typical property would rather charge a discounted "government rate" of $150 to a non-qualified customer, than a real government per diem rate of $125 to a legitimate government traveler.

The government's "fedrooms" program largely does away with this nonsense. But, while many Hilton properties participate, I'm not aware of any Marriott property that does.