Aha! So that explains why the Courtyard Blackstone of Ft. Worth, TX, & CY Downtown Detroit are Cat. 2 despite revenue rates around $200 buxanite weekdays!

Too few vacationers dream of spending points there. I've reserved the Blackstone on points for the April 21-23 Do :) !

Don't feel pregnant folks, Hilton just did theirs too!

Aaahhhh...thanks for extra bit of insight. That explains why so many Orlando properties (in all of the major chains) have categories that seem 1-2 levels out of line with their rates. We visit there all the time to see family, and I've always found it to be a relatively cheap hotel town - never a really good award value to be found.

But...if you are a casual member of the programs (as opposed to geeks like us), Orlando probably seems like an attractive place to use points. Plus, those hotels seem to sell a lot of rooms through travel agents as part of prepaid packages, so the "points earned" variable is probably somewhat lower than in most markets.

We're going for a long weekend in late March, and it'll be our first award stay in the Orlando area. Westin Bohemian...and then only because there is a 50% off award promo, making it 5,000 pts/nt instead of the usual 10.

Great bit of information! Thanks! Explains inconsistencies between rates and award categories at many Marriott properties. My guess is something similar is being used within HHonors because there are unexplainable inconsistencies between rates & award categories there too. Curious that SPG uses average room rate to assign their award categories.

I understand that hotel chains regularly change categories/classes of their hotels. Starwood did this at the beginning of the year and Hilton is going through it right now. What I like about Starwood is that Starwood Lurker actually gives a list of properties changing (both up and down) on FT. Hilton gave us advanced warning on their changes but what have we gotten from Marriott?

Can the Marriott Lurker/Concierge (I think it was Chris) please provide us with a listing of the changes or are the 8 hotels listed in the OP the only changes. I'm not complainging about the changes as they will always occur but I would like to see a complete list of properties that changed.

Note to Detroiters...while I don't live there today I say once a Detroiter always a Detroiter (which means I can say the following)

What....you don't see a reason to vacation in downtown DTW? :D

Do not agree
 

I've been a Marriott owner for 13 years and as well as 7 family members and friends that bought after me, we all did it almost exclusively to take advantage of the point option. This allowed me to travel around the world so the devaluation of my yearly fixed amount of points is a real concern.

frisbeeace,

Yes, if you purchased TS entirely because of the MR points, then devaluation is understandably a big concern to you.

But as I note, the majority of MVCI folks do not purchase solely because of the points. Timeshare is not real estate, it's destination travel. Likewise the MR point incentives offered with MVCI is not an ends of ownership, but rather an additional means to serve as a tool for adjunct travel options in addition to the usual prerogatives of timeshare ownership ( occupancy or trades ).

You have owned for 13 years and you have indeed enjoyed many trips with Travel Packages garnered from your ownership. As you know, early in the Marriott TS program, owners at some resorts could redeem for MR points every year if they so choose, an option no longer availible as EOY redemptions is now the norm. Hopefully your weeks are the former rather than the later thus retaining your flexibility.

regards,

Barry

I don't know about MR, but I do know that Starwood owners (my brother included) place a HIGH value on being able to convert TS to SPG points. And most are not too happy when they learn their 50K points will no longer buy 6 nights in Hawaii (or Venice, or wherever) because the properties have all been moved to Cat. 5, which requires more points. IMO this is a sophisticated fraud, and I have referred it to several class action lawyers (though I would never buy one myself).

Contrary to your statement, most timeshare IS real estate, you get a deed which provides you 1/52 ownership of an actual unit that you can bequeath to your heirs, etc. There are some vacation ownership programs which don't provide a deed - an even bigger ripoff as we can see how easily rates, points and categories are manipulated.

If you want a real good vacation investment, take your 25K and buy a vacation home in a popular area, then rent or do vacation exchanges with other owners. At the end of 20 years, your property will be worth double, you won't have to share the other 51 weeks nor worry about devaluation of your points.

Ah yes, the inevitable "class action lawsuit". Gimme a break. I'd ask if the lawyers you "referred it to" laughed at the idea, but sadly they probably didn't

If anyone bought a timeshare to convert to points, they made a very, very poor decision.


25K for a vacation home in a popular place? Did you forget a zero or two? Or have a flashback to 1950?

. . . Starwood owners (my brother included) place a HIGH value on being able to convert TS to SPG points . . . most timeshare IS real estate . . .

Yes, TS is real estate and most of it is deeded etc. But TS is not the same sort of investment as purchasing a vacation home that one owns & utilizes year round and can hopefully sell in the future for a good profit over time.

TS is fractional ownership of destination travel that has been gussied up with all sorts of points programs by Marriott, Starwood, RCI, and others to make the product more appealing. But the bottom line remains that you're buying TS and not a points program.

Marriott has brought a great deal of credibility to the TS market and the MR option is more of an ownership enhancement than it is the raison detre to purchase a Marriott TS. That said, an MVCI owner can indeed utilize the points to extract more value from ownership. I'm very satisfied with our MVCI ownership and the travel and flexibility that the program affords us.

I don't buy into incredulous outrage just because Marriott ( or any company ) makes alterations in their points program. It's not a static world out there and one must to learn to adapt & change with the times sans litigation.

Barry

I don't know why people keep bringing up litigation. There's no chance you'd win. In the eyes of the law, miles/points don't really have a very firm legal standing.


As for timeshares, I know Marriott is a reputable player in an otherwise seedy industry. I've talked with a couple of financial advisors about whether it makes sense to get one, and the consensus seems to be if I really truly am dead-set sure I want to go to the same place year after year, then buying a timeshare on the secondary market might make sense. Buying in hopes of always trading for other places or getting points doesn't seem like a strong play long term. We considered buying one in Orlando because we have family there and visit several times a year...

Actually, I can think of two LA hotels (both starwood, not Marriott) which went down a category when room revenue was low.

Remembering 2006...

Actually they were quite interested, I referred them to my brother (as I would never buy an overpriced timeshare from the developer). The question is not "if" but when you will get notice - just as the resorts were sued not so long ago on resort fees (and settled - I got some nice certs that I have already used)

Agreed. Unfortunatly quite a few did, as it is a major part of the sales pitch for most hotel companies like SPG, Hilton and Marriott.

Until recently you could get a nice vacation home for $25K down plus monthly payments on the mortgage balance. There are still many places in the country where you can get a great vacation home for $500k. Unfortunately, 5% down may not be possible right now as the lending standards are tightening. But I will be happy to stack a vacation home (which can be rented - sometimes at rates that will cover the PITI) against a timeshare as an investment any day.