itsaboutthejourney

Reason #7078 that SPG folks are worried that Marriott will impose their "knowledge" on our beloved W and Westin Bars.

JBord

But this is a brand difference. It would be rare, and unacceptable, to have a bartender in a JW, Ren, etc. that couldn't make a martini or other cocktails. As I've said in other threads, it just doesn't make sense to compare a Westin to a Courtyard, or a Four Points to a Renaissance. Just as pre-merger, I wouldn't have compared a Renaissance to a Courtyard and expected similar style, amenities, and service. And for what it's worth, Marriott has, in the past, celebrated their brand differences rather than trying to make them more similar.

I can't say I've stayed at the lower level SPG brands, but I think a CY compares more to a Four Points?

IMO, a lot of the "worrying" by SPG folks is because they aren't comparing similar brands across the two companies. I'm not saying some of the worrying isn't valid, and there's a little on the Marriott side too. But some of the worries just don't make a lot of sense to me.

itsaboutthejourney

My worry is that Marriott can't help themselves and will standardize (doublespeak for cost savings) across brands bringing lower standards to the upper tier brands. They are really good at running backoffice functions across multi-brand buildings that I wouldn't be surprised to see Bubba the bartender from the Fairfield asked to go over to the Westin to cover for someone and he just isn't equiped to make a cocktail of the caliber of a Westin bar. Marriott as a company doesn't generally excel at innovative or healthy F&B no matter the brand; 'safe' F&B they've got hands down hence Mr. Marriott's decree of a decent burger no matter the country. Of course there are outliers of great bars and restaurants and let's hope they generate enough profits for Marriott to leave them as well as W's and LeM's bars alone. Pepsico brands and the same bottled water across many brands is another example of the downgrade us SPG folks are seeing.

JBord

This is a perfect example of what I've stated. Pre-SPG, Marriott had different brands with different levels of service. If Bubba from Fairfield couldn't make a martini, he wouldn't be sent to a JW bar, the same way Bubba from Four Points would not be sent to the Westin bar. Marriott hotels were NOT all the same across brands, same as SPG. No offense to you, because this seems to be a common concern among SPGer's, but this belief is just not founded in reality.

For what it's worth, I agree Marriott isn't great at F&B. Fewer and fewer people are looking for that in a hotel these days, but at some properties I agree it's still important. I would hope the SPG properties don't change here, at least at the higher brands.

Also, I guess I don't see how Pepsi is a downgrade. It's a preference. To some people it's an upgrade, to some a downgrade. That's a personal issue, not a verifiable, factual downgrade.

hockeyinsider

For the vast majority of hotels, regardless of brand, a hotel restaurant is a last resort. Nobody in their right mind expects the restaurant in the office park hotel along the highway in the suburbs to have a Michelin-starred restaurant. I think outside of flagship properties, luxury brands and isolated resorts, you'd better off eating at a Ruby Tuesday or Outback Steakhouse.

rylan

Wow, more marketing garbage for Courtyards just to jack the price up, while not even giving rewards points to customers who are paying those absurd prices.
Its just the same food with 'fancier' sounding descriptions and higher price.

itsaboutthejourney

Office parks, I fully agree no need for a Michelin-starred restaurant, unrealistic and doesn't match the clientele. But in a major city, a hotel should have a good restaurant. So much business is conducted over meals and cocktails. Even better for the hotel's profile when it's a destination restaurant/bar or one that locals come to. Can you imagine the Westin Palace in Madrid without a high-end bar, it wouldn't be the same. Kimpton seems to have that in their formula as well. Now if Kimpton started opening in suburban office parks then I'd see them changing their strategy as the clientele will likely be more aligned with going to an Outback Steakhouse or whatever.

Of course I've taken a Courtyard convo off topic, my apologies.

hockeyinsider

I think some of the Renaissance and J.W. Marriott properties have good restaurants and bars, but the food-and-beverages outlets at many Marriott and even Gaylord properties are weak. A good example is the Gaylord National Harbor. Yes, it's a convention hotel, but the lobby bar is small, the bar itself is weak for the only standalone bar in the hotel (they don't even have champagne), and the restaurants kind of dull.

itsaboutthejourney

Ever since the merger I've been getting emails from those tacky Gaylord hotels. I want nothing to do with them and their CPAC conferences. How do I get Marriott to tell them to stop sending me their unsolicited emails?

JBord

I think your comment applies to any hotel, but I only partially agree with it. If your point is that a hotel should try to capitalize on a city location by having a high-end restaurant, that's fair, but up to each property to determine. But as a customer expectation, I stay in a city hotel that is within easy walking distance of great restaurants when I can. I'd much rather go next door or a block away to a great restaurant, and have choices. I believe that's how many people feel today and why room service is dying out. A downtown location brings a lot of restaurant competition for a hotel to compete with. So, to your point, if the hotel has a great restaurant, that's cool, and I may try it. But it shouldn't be a requirement or a necessity. It's interesting that you bring up Madrid. I've sensed that in some European countries, hotel bars and restaurants are more of a classy, prestigious location for locals. That isn't really the US culture, even where hotels have really nice bars and restaurants.