SPG flooding Marriott with platinums
Jan 18, 2018, 6:20 am
#211
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All worthy of a good discussion for a new thread...but nothing to do with the false premise that "SPG is flooding Marriott with Platinums".
Jan 18, 2018, 6:24 am
#212
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I think you also raise an interesting question. What is the purpose of elite-status with a hotel? In thinking about this, I believe there are four defined schools of thought on hotel elite-status:
1) To reward your best customers (I suspect most on Flyer Talk subscribe to this thinking).
2) To provide certain services or amenities to compensate for not providing other services. For example, most Marriott or Sheraton hotels won't have a shoeshine service, but they offer a club lounge with some food and drinks.
3) To provide the minimum benefits -- be they services or amenities -- that other competing hotels in the same market offer guests. This seems especially common to North America, where your typical Marriott or Sheraton club lounge is basic and unwilling to offer more than the minimum, unless the local market demands it.
4) To generate additional sources of revenue by monetizing the club lounge, which is the most commonly associated benefit or amenity of elite-status. By providing a high-quality experience, the hotel can make money by selling access to guests without elite-status. This seems to be the prevalent school of thought in Asia, where club lounges are industry-leading and almost always sold to guests willing to pay for access. Increasingly, corporate Marriott is embracing this strategy in North America with the M Club at its new and fully renovated flagship Marriott properties. This could also reduce labor costs, as a hotel's club lounge probably doesn't need the staffing levels of a full-service restaurant or bar.
1) To reward your best customers (I suspect most on Flyer Talk subscribe to this thinking).
2) To provide certain services or amenities to compensate for not providing other services. For example, most Marriott or Sheraton hotels won't have a shoeshine service, but they offer a club lounge with some food and drinks.
3) To provide the minimum benefits -- be they services or amenities -- that other competing hotels in the same market offer guests. This seems especially common to North America, where your typical Marriott or Sheraton club lounge is basic and unwilling to offer more than the minimum, unless the local market demands it.
4) To generate additional sources of revenue by monetizing the club lounge, which is the most commonly associated benefit or amenity of elite-status. By providing a high-quality experience, the hotel can make money by selling access to guests without elite-status. This seems to be the prevalent school of thought in Asia, where club lounges are industry-leading and almost always sold to guests willing to pay for access. Increasingly, corporate Marriott is embracing this strategy in North America with the M Club at its new and fully renovated flagship Marriott properties. This could also reduce labor costs, as a hotel's club lounge probably doesn't need the staffing levels of a full-service restaurant or bar.
It's been demonstrated many times that lounges are not core to the SPG loyal experience..if they were, they would have been Marriott loyals all these years vs. SPG loyals.
Part of the reason SPG is NOT flooding Marriott with Platinums is that for I and many others, the point of "elite status" has quite little to do with a lounge.
Jan 18, 2018, 6:53 am
#213
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And now you're making the same assumption that all Marriott loyalists number one interest is in lounge access that you're arguing is not yours as an SPGite - once again, no fact basis, pure supposition based upon your obvious biasness
TBH three of your four elite status points involve lounges...frankly that is a very Marriott-centric POV.
It's been demonstrated many times that lounges are not core to the SPG loyal experience..if they were, they would have been Marriott loyals all these years vs. SPG loyals.
Part of the reason SPG is NOT flooding Marriott with Platinums is that for I and many others, the point of "elite status" has quite little to do with a lounge.
It's been demonstrated many times that lounges are not core to the SPG loyal experience..if they were, they would have been Marriott loyals all these years vs. SPG loyals.
Part of the reason SPG is NOT flooding Marriott with Platinums is that for I and many others, the point of "elite status" has quite little to do with a lounge.
Jan 18, 2018, 7:18 am
#214
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I responded to poster who had suggested lounges are the top elite benefit by saying, No, for many people they are way down the list in calculation.
Am I saying that ALL Marriott loyals put it first and NO Starwood loyals put it first? Of course not. Don’t be so snide.
It is PROBABLY a fair statement that the average Marriott loyal finds the lounge benefit more important than the average Starwood loyal. But that wasn’t the discussion at hand.
Jan 18, 2018, 8:06 am
#216
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Second, perhaps you aren’t aware of the Luxury Hotels & Travel Forum here on FlyerTalk that easily is as active as the Marriott and Starwood Forums?
Last edited by bhrubin; Jan 18, 2018 at 9:48 am
Jan 18, 2018, 8:59 am
#217
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...wouldn't be caught dead at the DFW Airport Marriott. I suspect that's not the view of the average SPG elite road warrior. Others of us who travel 150 nights a year and have experience as Plats in both programs with a broad enough experience to have a representative sample assert that the Fair Oaks/Tysons Marrioitt's offer better experiences to Plats than ...
What is the purpose of elite-status with a hotel? In thinking about this, I believe there are four defined schools of thought on hotel elite-status:
1) To reward ...
2) To provide certain services or amenities ...
3) To provide the minimum benefits...
4) To generate additional sources of revenue ....
1) To reward ...
2) To provide certain services or amenities ...
3) To provide the minimum benefits...
4) To generate additional sources of revenue ....
Jan 18, 2018, 9:10 am
#218
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My opnion, backed up by the brand profiles and much of the FT and other blog discussion, is that lounges are more important to your standard MR loyal vs a standard SPG one. Nothing too controversial there.
If if you have a different opinion, by all means offer it and the rationale why. Otherwise you are arguing for the sake of being argumentative and inflammatory, which is pretty much the definition of trolling.
Jan 18, 2018, 9:57 am
#219
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I think the reasonable people have recognized that the premise for this thread is completely ridiculous and faulty...and that SPG Plats are not flooding Marriott lounges. Any crowding at Marriott lounges is likely more the result of new Marriott Golds from Amex Platinum or the United arrangement.
Also well established is that SPG Plats are far less likely to be interested in lounges in the first place compared with Marriott Golds and Plats—since only Sheraton has a lounge as a brand standard of all the many SPG brands, while Marriott, JW Marriott. and Renaissance all have lounges as a brand standards. Not to mention that there are far fewer SPG Plats than there are Marriott Golds with lounge access in the first place.
This thread seems now to be a complete waste of anyone’s time...unless trolling is the objective.
Also well established is that SPG Plats are far less likely to be interested in lounges in the first place compared with Marriott Golds and Plats—since only Sheraton has a lounge as a brand standard of all the many SPG brands, while Marriott, JW Marriott. and Renaissance all have lounges as a brand standards. Not to mention that there are far fewer SPG Plats than there are Marriott Golds with lounge access in the first place.
This thread seems now to be a complete waste of anyone’s time...unless trolling is the objective.
Jan 18, 2018, 10:18 am
#220
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If Conde Nast puts it in their Top 100 list, I trust it's going to be good regardless of whether it has a star rating.
I generally think of the basic Marriott/Sheraton/Westin/Hilton as a 3-star hotel, even though it's quite possible that the hotel hasn't been formally assessed that by anyone.
Well, it *is* a bulletin board that is first and foremost about a form of coupon-clipping to get free rides on mass transitExcellent observation. "Luxury" means nothing. It's marketing-speak. Yes, I know that often a hotel's star rating can is marketing and very subjective, as many of these rating systems don't consider the hotel's capability to perform services nor its actual delivery of services into consideration. Merely offering or claiming to offer certain services and amenities is good enough in most or all cases.
I think you also raise an interesting question. What is the purpose of elite-status with a hotel? In thinking about this, I believe there are four defined schools of thought on hotel elite-status:
1) To reward your best customers (I suspect most on Flyer Talk subscribe to this thinking).
2) To provide certain services or amenities to compensate for not providing other services. For example, most Marriott or Sheraton hotels won't have a shoeshine service, but they offer a club lounge with some food and drinks.
3) To provide the minimum benefits -- be they services or amenities -- that other competing hotels in the same market offer guests. This seems especially common to North America, where your typical Marriott or Sheraton club lounge is basic and unwilling to offer more than the minimum, unless the local market demands it.
4) To generate additional sources of revenue by monetizing the club lounge, which is the most commonly associated benefit or amenity of elite-status. By providing a high-quality experience, the hotel can make money by selling access to guests without elite-status. This seems to be the prevalent school of thought in Asia, where club lounges are industry-leading and almost always sold to guests willing to pay for access. Increasingly, corporate Marriott is embracing this strategy in North America with the M Club at its new and fully renovated flagship Marriott properties. This could also reduce labor costs, as a hotel's club lounge probably doesn't need the staffing levels of a full-service restaurant or bar.
I think you also raise an interesting question. What is the purpose of elite-status with a hotel? In thinking about this, I believe there are four defined schools of thought on hotel elite-status:
1) To reward your best customers (I suspect most on Flyer Talk subscribe to this thinking).
2) To provide certain services or amenities to compensate for not providing other services. For example, most Marriott or Sheraton hotels won't have a shoeshine service, but they offer a club lounge with some food and drinks.
3) To provide the minimum benefits -- be they services or amenities -- that other competing hotels in the same market offer guests. This seems especially common to North America, where your typical Marriott or Sheraton club lounge is basic and unwilling to offer more than the minimum, unless the local market demands it.
4) To generate additional sources of revenue by monetizing the club lounge, which is the most commonly associated benefit or amenity of elite-status. By providing a high-quality experience, the hotel can make money by selling access to guests without elite-status. This seems to be the prevalent school of thought in Asia, where club lounges are industry-leading and almost always sold to guests willing to pay for access. Increasingly, corporate Marriott is embracing this strategy in North America with the M Club at its new and fully renovated flagship Marriott properties. This could also reduce labor costs, as a hotel's club lounge probably doesn't need the staffing levels of a full-service restaurant or bar.
In my years as an SPG Plat, I actually looked forward to at least some of the stays - knowing it was a property that took really good care of Plats. Marriott...calm assurance that it'll be a good stay. Starwood...more anticipation that it could be a memorable stay. (Again, at *some* properties.)
Once again, YOUR opinion and totally lacking any facts. Pure supposition.
Maybe you should conduct a worldwide survey ?
I do think it's probably a fair statement that the executive lounge has long been a part of both the Marriott and Renaissance brands. That is, the bulk of the business-stay hotels under the Marriott umbrella. At Starwood, of their 4 brands that are your likely business hotel destination, only 1 is really known to have lounges at the same rate as Mar/Ren. I could easily see a Westin/W/Le Meridien guest spending years as a Plat and not really think much about lounges. If you're a Marriott regular, you begin to learn where the good lounges are at your destinations. It's just a different model...not saying one is better than the other.
Maybe you should conduct a worldwide survey ?
I do think it's probably a fair statement that the executive lounge has long been a part of both the Marriott and Renaissance brands. That is, the bulk of the business-stay hotels under the Marriott umbrella. At Starwood, of their 4 brands that are your likely business hotel destination, only 1 is really known to have lounges at the same rate as Mar/Ren. I could easily see a Westin/W/Le Meridien guest spending years as a Plat and not really think much about lounges. If you're a Marriott regular, you begin to learn where the good lounges are at your destinations. It's just a different model...not saying one is better than the other.
Having stayed at hundreds of FS properties across North American, Europe and Asia, I just want to point out that you chose two of the absolute worst properties as examples. There are nicer FIs and SHSs near DFW, and the Fair Oaks FS is a horribly run hotel. Friends should not let friends stay at either. My experiences at both, as a Plat, PP and/or LTP would convince me to join the Hilton, Hyatt, Holiday Inn or Carlson programs instead.
Jan 18, 2018, 10:55 am
#221
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However, when staying at a non-resort/non-RC/St.R/LC property -- as many of us do 100 nights a year -- the choices are (a) Marriott/Ren/JW.Autograph with a lounge offering a continental breakfast, soda/coffee, lights evening snacks, and a $10 voucher or (b) Westin/Sheraton/LM/W offering a voucher for a "continental breakfast" -- quoting the one I received a few days ago at a Westin.
Between those two, the Marriott/Ren/JW is objectively a better perk. If I received a voucher at the Westin/Sheraton/LM/W, for appetizers and a drink, that would be a matching perk, although the ability to pop in and grab something quickly has value.
As to which decor or vibe, that's really a subjective matter of personal preference.
Jan 18, 2018, 11:16 am
#222
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As a Marriott loyal I'd like to raise my hand and say the lounge benefit does not drive very much of my decision making or loyalty.
Jan 18, 2018, 11:24 am
#223
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That's great! I'm sure there are plenty others like you - all people are different, and we all have our own priorities in terms of what we patronize.
Jan 18, 2018, 11:28 am
#224
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Ditto, but as I'd found out from how important breakfasts (which I couldn't care less about) are on FT, I suspect I'm in the minority on this, too.
Jan 18, 2018, 11:38 am
#225
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I don't think its the lounge, per se.
However, when staying at a non-resort/non-RC/St.R/LC property -- as many of us do 100 nights a year -- the choices are (a) Marriott/Ren/JW.Autograph with a lounge offering a continental breakfast, soda/coffee, lights evening snacks, and a $10 voucher or (b) Westin/Sheraton/LM/W offering a voucher for a "continental breakfast" -- quoting the one I received a few days ago at a Westin.
Between those two, the Marriott/Ren/JW is objectively a better perk. If I received a voucher at the Westin/Sheraton/LM/W, for appetizers and a drink, that would be a matching perk, although the ability to pop in and grab something quickly has value.
However, when staying at a non-resort/non-RC/St.R/LC property -- as many of us do 100 nights a year -- the choices are (a) Marriott/Ren/JW.Autograph with a lounge offering a continental breakfast, soda/coffee, lights evening snacks, and a $10 voucher or (b) Westin/Sheraton/LM/W offering a voucher for a "continental breakfast" -- quoting the one I received a few days ago at a Westin.
Between those two, the Marriott/Ren/JW is objectively a better perk. If I received a voucher at the Westin/Sheraton/LM/W, for appetizers and a drink, that would be a matching perk, although the ability to pop in and grab something quickly has value.
However - you have to look at things holistically as well...for you, between those two, the Marriott offering is better. For me and others, it's not quite so clear cut (I like the Starwood "package" more), and thus it's actually more subjective than objective:
- I'm a business traveler, and thus when I travel, everything is reimbursed. For my standard 1-2 day stays at a hotel, I'd rather take the 500 Starpoints as a Plat amenity, as I value that at probably ~$15. But I have a good per diem; others who have a lesser per diem, and/or want to save more for a nice meal out, would prefer the lounge/drink/appetizer benefit.
- Of course, I could also take the Plat breakfast amenity, and I sometimes do if it's a property that goes above and beyond w/ a full breakfast (as many properties, especially those OUS, do). In that case, I find it's a higher quality offering than what one would get in a standard hotel lounge (different from the elevated M Club)
- However, you may have some business stays at limited service properties...some may prefer the offerings (hot breakfast?) at a RI/SHS, others (like me) appreciate the ~$12-$15 credit or whatever I might get at an Aloft.
- But then, I'm also not just a business traveler - on vacation, typically redeeming my points at luxury/resort properties, that's when I always take the free breakfast (and again, it's almost always a full one, possibly priced at $30-$40, which I'd never pay for myself). As often noted, this is a benefit I get with Starwood that is not comparable to what Marriott offers (less).
- If you're a majority leisure traveler, and want to reduce F&B expenditures whenever possible, then agreed Marriott is probably better.
As noted elsewhere, things are rarely black & white.
