bhrubin

Hi Ritz Carlton/JW Marriott guests:

As an SPG elite who loves to stay in luxury level properties, I was curious as to which JW Marriott properties are considered the best in the USA/world...as well as which Ritz Carlton properties are considered the best in the USA/world. With the Marriott-Starwood merger coming to completion in 2016 or 2017, this seems like a good idea to start getting feedback!

SPG elites already have a good sense of the best SPG properties among the St Regis, Luxury Collection, and W brands. It would be great to hear from Ritz/Marriott elites about the best Ritz Carlton and JW Marriott properties. And if there are any Autograph/Edition properties that are comparably luxurious, please let me know.

I'm particularly looking for Ritz Carlton/JW Marriott properties that stand out as comparable to even the best luxury hotels in the same locations...or in locations where there may be no other other luxury options.

Thanks!

lucycan

My favorite Ritz in the US is Dove Mountain in AZ. The JW in Orlando is quite nice. New JW in Cabo also looks very nice.

leeky

From your other posts both in this forum and others, I seriously doubt you'll ever find any Marriott properties that will meet your satisfaction vrs your love affair with Starwood properties.

lucycan

Keep in mind there are many nice Autograph Collection and Renaissance properties that are similar to JW/Ritz levels as well.

UpInTheAir

The best Ritz-Carltons in the world tend to be in the major financial centers of the world. I think SPG elites who enjoy staying in Luxury Collection and St Regis properties will find JW Marriotts disappointing as JW Marriott is an entry-level luxury brand offering affordable luxury.

rgrobins

JW is hit or miss. LA Live, Delhi, and Chicago are amazing. Santa Monica, and Hong Kong are old and disappointing. I think it'll come down to when it was built.

Ritz is great in their focal properties. Key Biscayne, Hong Kong (my favorite in the world), Tokyo, LA Live, Half Moon Bay, and Singapore (not rewards participant) are stand outs. When Marriott started expanding Ritz at a faster pace, you get properties like Buckhead, Marina del Rey, Seoul, Kuala Lumpur, and Boston which are luxury but boring. Never had a bad Ritz experience, but I've had underwhelming fit and finish.

Autograph certainly has its fair share of top notch properties. Atlantis, Cosmo Vegas, Tulsa Ambassador, Hotel Chicago, and St Ermin's London put JW to shame. Threadneedle London, a couple FL ones I can't name, Hotel Carlton NYC, and the Envoy Boston were below a JW. I will give the Envoy credit for being closer to an SPG-type hotel, but I don't care for bare concrete floors in my hotel room.

I love Renaissance hotels, but they will look like an overly conservative approach to SPG.

Unfortunately, you have to do your research, but the same applies to Westins and Ws I've stayed at. For every JW, Ren, Autograph, Ritz, Westin, W, and St Regis I've stayed in that was incredible, I could name another one that is blacklisted from my stays going forward.

Saidoh

JW Marriott Marquis Dubai ftw!

bhrubin

Thanks. My best RC stay so far was Moscow--nice property. I agree that the RC Hong Kong is beautiful and among the best, but its location is a bit off-putting for my tastes.

I disagree about the Autographs you list, but perhaps that's my tastes differing from yours. We despised the Cosmo (noise, broken showers, services issues galore).

I think Renaissance aren't luxury--more akin to the upper upscale like SPG's Le Meridien brand as even the Marriott CEO called it. Westin also hits that space. Upscale, but not luxury. I agree that Renaissance (and most Marriotts) are more conservative in style compared to most newer/upscale SPG.

You could be right. I don't think there are as many misses with StR as there may be with RC, but as you said--all are very good and luxurious, but some underwhelm (especially those with older edifices).

Autograph doesn't have close to the luxury that Luxury Collection has, which is why I'm certain Luxury Collection will remain as a stand-alone soft brand. W is the only other luxury brand in SPG, and it is far more luxurious abroad on average than in the USA (where the hotels are older, built before Starwood decided it was turning into a luxury brand). But that's why Starwood has been refurbishing Ws in N. America for the past 3 years. Edition is the closest to W.

I'm just trying to get a handle on which RCs (and perhaps a few JW Marriotts) will be worth my attention for my normal business travel...or for any aspirational stays for holiday.

bhrubin

That's probably true...but then there are cities like Lima, with an excellent JW Marriott even relative to the other top hotels in town. Starwood doesn't have anything that nice there.

And there will be times when the less costly luxury or even location of JW Marriott might be more appealing for a business stay than the more costly StR, RC, LC, or even W. W is another closer to entry-level luxury brand, even if W has more edge/style than JW Marriott. Either way, having the additional option is always a nice thing.

Plus, the StR and RC locations don't actually overlap in too many places, surprisingly. So the merger does allow for true luxury opportunities in many new locations with the 2 brands. I'm sure Marriott will expand both with less overlap in the future--barring big business markets and resort destinations which are appropriate for and can accommodate both. RC has a slightly more feminine Art Deco design aesthetic with its newer properties, while StR has a slightly more masculine/modern chic aesthetic.

bhrubin

Thanks. It will be the new RC Reserve and Luxury Collection properties in Cabo that likely interest us more. I've also heard many good things about the RC Dove Mntn.

leeky

you took your SPG Plat membership and got matched to Hyatt Diamond then immediately bashed the entire Hyatt chain as well as the Hyatt GP program touting how much better the SPG program and their props were WITHOUT having not even one stay at a Hyatt in 2015, so I'm not at all surprised that once again you knock both the JW, Renaissance and Auto Coll props as inferior to your beloved SPG props as IMO that was your entire intent - let other tout a Marriott so you could knock it in favor of your beloved SPG even though you never had a stay. Typical..............

bhrubin

Ah, first, this is the Marriott forum, and your post is totally off-topic. Second, I didn't bash the entire Hyatt chain or Hyatt GP program. I do believe that SPG is superior for me compared to Hyatt GP based on my travel destinations. That isn't bashing. Third, as noted elsewhere, I did stay at numerous Hyatt properties in 2015, including the Hyatt Arlington, Andaz West Hollywood, Grand Hyatt San Francisco, etc. And I dined in 2015 at the Park Hyatt Washington and Park Hyatt NYC. In 2014, I also stayed at the Park Hyatt Istanbul, Park Hyatt Aviara, and Park Hyatt Moscow, and dined at the Park Hyatt Siem Reap. Fourth, I have bookings in 2016 for the Park Hyatt Chicago and Andaz Maui already. It's hard to imagine that I'm bashing Hyatt hotels if I stay at them in the past and future, as I obviously have and will be.

I didn't knock the JW Marriotts; I responded to someone else who did laud some and knock others:

I knocked a single Autograph Collection property at which we've stayed, the Cosmopolitan:

And I didn't knock Renaissance. I merely state the fact that Renaissance is not considered a luxury segment brand; it is an upper upscale segment brand, along with the Le Meridien, Westin, and Autograph brands. I also responded by agreeing with someone else calling Renaissance more conservative:

Your analysis isn't cogent based on what I've already stated in this thread. Everyone else is being constructive in this discussion. It would be great if you could do the same.

leeky

that's right, this is the Marriott forum yet all that you seem to post is how GREAT your beloved SPG props are and your posts don't talk about any Marriotts you've stayed at but only, once again, praise Starwood props.

IMO you'd be VERY happy if this merger never takes place as then you can continue your myopic stays in SPG.

leeky

need to keep your stories straight -

rgrobins

I agree Edition is closer to LuxCol. I've never stayed in one because their locations are never convenient for my travel. I included FS non lux only because the Ritz/JW portfolio doesn't cover my locations so I supplement with Auto and Ren to round out my picks.

Ren is lux abroad. Paris are borderline lux where Ritz/JW don't play. Bangkok is in the lux space because their JW is smaller and old.

There are certainly properties in Ritz I've never stayed but hear are amazing. Bachelor Gulch and Dove Mt are on my list to visit. I can't say the same for anything in St Regis, but I also can't say I've been looking.

I'm certainly Marriott heavy but I've had my fair share of SPG stays. I stayed in over 10% of Marriotts entire portfolio and maybe 2% of SPG. I just wasn't going to flood with my entire list of must-go-back and never-go-back. SF I flip back and forth between JW and Ritz. They're both great, but I'm not dying to stay in them again.

I've stuck with Marriott because I've had some awful service issues with SPG. Westin Hyderabad, St Regis Houston, and W Hong Kong were absolutely awful. Ritz service levels are always on point in my book, even if the fit and finish weren't there.

At the end of the day, the merger will create compliments to your existing preferences. I like the Ritz and JW over the W in SF for example, so the merger isn't going to add the W to my SF go-to list. I'm not about to start splitting hairs between properties in cities like HK or Tokyo because where I stay is perfect and what I don't know won't kill me. The Four Seasons might be better, but I don't care. I will welcome SPG properties where Marriott plays poorly like Kuala Lumpur and Boston.

So think of this as an expansion of SPG. You now get to play in a bigger sandbox, but feel free to stay in the same corner you started in. Just beware that Ritz doesn't give points on anything but room rate, which greatly reduces my appetite for them given the amount of incidentals I have.