Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
Aug 19, 2018, 8:40 pm
#5836
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
Marriott could have done many things that would have reduced the value of outstanding certificates or even have made them all but unuseable. But unilateral cancellation and return of points that would not allow booking of equivalent hotel stays is one of the few things they almost certainly could not have done with legal impunity.
Opting not to "attach" a certificate is a "gamble" and when the house can, and did, change the T&Cs at any time, with or without notice, it is not a gamble I was willing to take.
Since Marriott was "generous" in allowing unattached certificates to be added to reservations post Merger, bound by new T&Cs, after the dormancy, the legality of an outright cancellation with or without a return of the certificate "worth" is moot.
James
Aug 19, 2018, 8:43 pm
#5837
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
My guesses:
1. They probably wanted to map Cat. 9s to their easier match of new Cat. 6s however they would have lost the ability to argue that no existing TP was harmed because it was at least the value of the new peak (going from a 45K value to peak 40K).
2. They didn't want to deal with legacy certificates and wanted a clean sweep into the new program. This approach probably just requires a single variable with the original TP category for legacy certificates that are detached from reservations.
1. They probably wanted to map Cat. 9s to their easier match of new Cat. 6s however they would have lost the ability to argue that no existing TP was harmed because it was at least the value of the new peak (going from a 45K value to peak 40K).
2. They didn't want to deal with legacy certificates and wanted a clean sweep into the new program. This approach probably just requires a single variable with the original TP category for legacy certificates that are detached from reservations.
For #1 , in my opinion it was a hotel coverage numbers game. They picked a threshold of old hotels covered in new cert, and aligned accordingly. The numbers below are for the old to new hotel coverage for n-1, n and n+1 new cats where n is the converted new cat.
Cat5 ->4 38% 99% 100%
Cat6->4, 2% 71% 99%
Cat7->5, 18% 98% 100%
Cat8->5, 0% 70% 99%
Cat9->6, 2% 76% 99%
T3->6 0% 82% 100%
T5->7 0% 21% 100%
Looks like the threshold was about 70%, but it falls off a cliff at n-1 which probably drove it more than anything. I know people are upset about paying 30k more than they had to for the same result, but the real loss was the ~30% hotel coverage. Even Cat9 people lost here. This essentially is a devaluation, which is fine, but should have been announced or avoided by mapping to a higher hotel coverage. Neither happened.
Last edited by zozeppelin; Aug 19, 2018 at 8:51 pm
Aug 19, 2018, 8:48 pm
#5838
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
Aug 19, 2018, 8:50 pm
#5839
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AA EP; HH Diamond; Marriott Plat; IHG Plat; National EE
Posts: 342
Certificate upgrade BEFORE the merger
Question for those who have upgraded a travel cert before the programs merged. I upgraded a cert from a cat 6 to a cat 9 on Friday, and then booked a cat 9 property all in the same transaction with customer service.
I expected the cost of the upgrade to be the difference between the cat 9 and and cat 6 package, which was 90K points. However, I ended up with 120K points deducted. My account shows the cat 6 certificate was cancelled and I was refunded 75K points, and then a new cat 9 "partial" certificate was issued for 195K. My assumption here is that the 75K is the point value of the certificate if one were to get it refunded as points instead of using it to book a cat 6 stay. I also assume this was the wrong method to upgrade the cert given I've never heard before that upgrading would cost more than the difference between the two packages.
Any thoughts from those who have experience with upgrading under the old packages?
I expected the cost of the upgrade to be the difference between the cat 9 and and cat 6 package, which was 90K points. However, I ended up with 120K points deducted. My account shows the cat 6 certificate was cancelled and I was refunded 75K points, and then a new cat 9 "partial" certificate was issued for 195K. My assumption here is that the 75K is the point value of the certificate if one were to get it refunded as points instead of using it to book a cat 6 stay. I also assume this was the wrong method to upgrade the cert given I've never heard before that upgrading would cost more than the difference between the two packages.
Any thoughts from those who have experience with upgrading under the old packages?
Aug 19, 2018, 8:55 pm
#5840
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: Marriott
Posts: 46
I would argue with that. They were encoraged to attach their cetificates for maximum value. Everyone had the "ability" to attach their certificate to a reservation, up to the final hour. That program is now defunct and consequently the "value" of the certificate is moot but the 45K + 30K per category upgrade "worth" might (I say that loosely, but would establish good faith) have some bite. I still maintain a plaintiff would not be successful when it was evidenced he neglected to maximize the value of his certificate before his ability to do so expired, in hopes he would get a better outcome in "value" in the new combined program. The incentive to "gamble" was fueled by an anticipation of huge windfall.
Opting not to "attach" a certificate is a "gamble" and when the house can, and did, change the T&Cs at any time, with or without notice, it is not a gamble I was willing to take.
Since Marriott was "generous" in allowing unattached certificates to be added to reservations post Merger, bound by new T&Cs, after the dormancy, the legality of an outright cancellation with or without a return of the certificate "worth" is moot.
James
Opting not to "attach" a certificate is a "gamble" and when the house can, and did, change the T&Cs at any time, with or without notice, it is not a gamble I was willing to take.
Since Marriott was "generous" in allowing unattached certificates to be added to reservations post Merger, bound by new T&Cs, after the dormancy, the legality of an outright cancellation with or without a return of the certificate "worth" is moot.
James
Aug 19, 2018, 9:04 pm
#5841
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
James
Aug 19, 2018, 9:22 pm
#5842
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Laguna Beach CA
Programs: AA EXP/4MM UA 1MM, HY Global, Bon Lft Plat, HH Dia
Posts: 720
Marriott blew it with the small mindedness that infected their previous loyalty program. They seem to think that the size and scale will mask their attempts to limit rewards in the larger program.
Marriott could've erred on the smaller side of generosity and earned a tremendous amount of good will. As it is, they've inherited a huge number of skeptics from SPG and have shown that the skepticism was well deserved.
Consumers still have choices and larger presence doesn't make their selection inevitable.
Marriott could've erred on the smaller side of generosity and earned a tremendous amount of good will. As it is, they've inherited a huge number of skeptics from SPG and have shown that the skepticism was well deserved.
Consumers still have choices and larger presence doesn't make their selection inevitable.
Aug 19, 2018, 9:25 pm
#5843
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ocean Beach
Programs: Alaska MPVG75, AAdvantage PlatPro, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 535
I would argue with that. They were encoraged to attach their cetificates for maximum value. Everyone had the "ability" to attach their certificate to a reservation, up to the final hour. That program is now defunct and consequently the "value" of the certificate is moot but the 45K + 30K per category upgrade "worth" might (I say that loosely, but would establish good faith) have some bite. I still maintain a plaintiff would not be successful when it was evidenced he neglected to maximize the value of his certificate before his ability to do so expired, in hopes he would get a better outcome in "value" in the new combined program. The incentive to "gamble" was fueled by an anticipation of huge windfall.
Opting not to "attach" a certificate is a "gamble" and when the house can, and did, change the T&Cs at any time, with or without notice, it is not a gamble I was willing to take.
Since Marriott was "generous" in allowing unattached certificates to be added to reservations post Merger, bound by new T&Cs, after the dormancy, the legality of an outright cancellation with or without a return of the certificate "worth" is moot.
James
Opting not to "attach" a certificate is a "gamble" and when the house can, and did, change the T&Cs at any time, with or without notice, it is not a gamble I was willing to take.
Since Marriott was "generous" in allowing unattached certificates to be added to reservations post Merger, bound by new T&Cs, after the dormancy, the legality of an outright cancellation with or without a return of the certificate "worth" is moot.
James
Aug 19, 2018, 9:25 pm
#5844
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
Let's just all remember this:
"Floater certificates, including outstanding Marriott Travel Package certificates, will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption. <added clarity by Starwood Lurker 21Jun18>"
This entire feeding frenzy was touched off by an official Starwood/Marriott representative posting an official position of the corporation that turned out to be a complete lie.
"Floater certificates, including outstanding Marriott Travel Package certificates, will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption. <added clarity by Starwood Lurker 21Jun18>"
This entire feeding frenzy was touched off by an official Starwood/Marriott representative posting an official position of the corporation that turned out to be a complete lie.
Aug 19, 2018, 9:35 pm
#5845
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E75, Marriott LT Ti, IHG Dia Amb, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 15,521
I have no skin in this game as I bought primarily Cat 1-5 certs, but I fully understand why people are upset. I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but what would have happened if Marriott had mapped the certs as follows?
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 5
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 6
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 7
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
You'd have really unhappy people at the Cat 7, 9 and Tier 4-5 levels! There is no way to win at this unless they allow people to downgrade their certs and get a refund on points.
Sorry to the people who feel ripped off, but I have a feeling that Marriott will come through for you and make things right again.
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 5
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 6
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 7
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
You'd have really unhappy people at the Cat 7, 9 and Tier 4-5 levels! There is no way to win at this unless they allow people to downgrade their certs and get a refund on points.
Sorry to the people who feel ripped off, but I have a feeling that Marriott will come through for you and make things right again.
Aug 19, 2018, 9:37 pm
#5846
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 25
Just tried calling Platinum Rewards line. Of course it was completely pointless. I asked the rep if he knew anything about cancelling TP certs for some points back. He replied that it was impossible and they were use it or lose it. Realizing there was no point in responding, I also asked about Marriott and SPG accounts being separate stil and when/how they would be combined. Once he heard the word "Starwood", he had that transfer button on quick draw to get rid of me. The SPG rep couldn't even look up my account. He tried by old SPG #, new SPG #, Marriott number, phone number, and email address. Said it was pretty typical of today.
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised in my results but has anyone else had any different answers when trying to cancel a certificate for a "reduced amount"?
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised in my results but has anyone else had any different answers when trying to cancel a certificate for a "reduced amount"?
Aug 19, 2018, 9:41 pm
#5847
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
I'd hold off on doing anything hasty at this point in time. Marriott's given themselves a month to sort through the travel package mess so we can see what, if anything, they're going to do.
Aug 19, 2018, 9:43 pm
#5848
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YVR to SEA
Posts: 2,535
Since there's a lockout on travel certs for the next month, I think it's pointless to call in. The agents don't make the decisions and we'll hear about possible reimbursement if it happens.
Aug 19, 2018, 9:48 pm
#5849
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
I have no skin in this game as I bought primarily Cat 1-5 certs, but I fully understand why people are upset. I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but what would have happened if Marriott had mapped the certs as follows?
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 5
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 6
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 7
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
You'd have really unhappy people at the Cat 7, 9 and Tier 4-5 levels! There is no way to win at this unless they allow people to downgrade their certs and get a refund on points.
Sorry to the people who feel ripped off, but I have a feeling that Marriott will come through for you and make things right again.
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 5
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 6
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 7
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
You'd have really unhappy people at the Cat 7, 9 and Tier 4-5 levels! There is no way to win at this unless they allow people to downgrade their certs and get a refund on points.
Sorry to the people who feel ripped off, but I have a feeling that Marriott will come through for you and make things right again.
The issue isn't paying more for the same hotels as someone else, it is getting significantly less hotels than what you originally purchased, without notice.
Aug 19, 2018, 9:53 pm
#5850
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,411
I have no skin in this game as I bought primarily Cat 1-5 certs, but I fully understand why people are upset. I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but what would have happened if Marriott had mapped the certs as follows?
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 5
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 6
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 7
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
You'd have really unhappy people at the Cat 7, 9 and Tier 4-5 levels! There is no way to win at this unless they allow people to downgrade their certs and get a refund on points.
Sorry to the people who feel ripped off, but I have a feeling that Marriott will come through for you and make things right again.
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 5
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 6
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 7
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
You'd have really unhappy people at the Cat 7, 9 and Tier 4-5 levels! There is no way to win at this unless they allow people to downgrade their certs and get a refund on points.
Sorry to the people who feel ripped off, but I have a feeling that Marriott will come through for you and make things right again.