Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
Aug 20, 2018, 4:09 pm
#5986
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
Check this thread out:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...es-update.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...es-update.html
If you want to upgrade, wait some time. It is possible per the supervisor when I asked the very same question.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:10 pm
#5987
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
No it is not because we are talking about the Old Cat 6 which was for 30K hotels, and the Old Cat 7 which was for 35K hotels. The price difference between the Old Cat 6 and the Old Cat 7 was only 30K.
Now EVEN IF your new Cat 1-4 from the Old Cat 6 still holds 30K more than the Old Cat 5, i.e. 75K versus 45K, you would need to pay 60K to be able to book the new Cat 5 - versus the old TP you only need to pay 30K additional to do that.
So just how this is not a devaluation?
Hence the upgrade cost has jumped 100% from the Old TP to the New TP. That as you would agree, is a major devaluation of the program, not to mention many better or more desirable hotels have gone up in categories.
To give you an example, this is a Springhill, nobody would ever associate a Springhill with "aspirational".
When we stayed at Springhill Kallispell, Montana in last Sept, it was a 10K property. It went to 15K shortly afterward in the usual sleazy way of category creep during the span of a year. Today said hotel is 25K property.
It jumped from 10K to 25K in less than 12 months.
There are quite some numbers of similar jumps in very basic hotels that nobody here or the bloggers even know these properties exist.
There are a lot devaluation going on other than the TP that is the focus on this thread.
I think those who said the bigger issue is, you have LESS number of hotels that can be used with the same level of certs after August 18th, and that is very true.
Now EVEN IF your new Cat 1-4 from the Old Cat 6 still holds 30K more than the Old Cat 5, i.e. 75K versus 45K, you would need to pay 60K to be able to book the new Cat 5 - versus the old TP you only need to pay 30K additional to do that.
So just how this is not a devaluation?
Hence the upgrade cost has jumped 100% from the Old TP to the New TP. That as you would agree, is a major devaluation of the program, not to mention many better or more desirable hotels have gone up in categories.
To give you an example, this is a Springhill, nobody would ever associate a Springhill with "aspirational".
When we stayed at Springhill Kallispell, Montana in last Sept, it was a 10K property. It went to 15K shortly afterward in the usual sleazy way of category creep during the span of a year. Today said hotel is 25K property.
It jumped from 10K to 25K in less than 12 months.
There are quite some numbers of similar jumps in very basic hotels that nobody here or the bloggers even know these properties exist.
There are a lot devaluation going on other than the TP that is the focus on this thread.
I think those who said the bigger issue is, you have LESS number of hotels that can be used with the same level of certs after August 18th, and that is very true.
Second, I am trying to objectively beat that drum for the real hit was the hotel coverage and not the 30k overpayment. I hope the fervor continues in that vain and people don't get tricked by the 30k refund and think they won.
If I understand correctly -
I was assuming the 30k rebate in there for OC6 holders converted to NC4.
So before, you had OC6 but needed OC7, so you add 30k to get your hotel.
Now, you have NC4 + 30k refund, have to pay 60k to get to NC5. The same net 30k to get your hotel.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:10 pm
#5988
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
Aug 20, 2018, 4:15 pm
#5989
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 211
This is what it shows on the email I received yesterday when the supervisor did the cancellation of the old Partial Cat 6 and reordered the Partial Cat 1-4 (it does not show any point value online but she reiterated to me it had 75K and the email confirmed that.)
- Description: PARTIAL PACKAGE - 7 NIGHTS CATEGORY 1-4
- Reward code: QP80
- Valid through: Monday, August 19, 2019
- Total points redeemed: 75,000
- Confirmed on: Sunday, August 19, 2018
Does this imply that I can just wait until my old C1-5 cert gets converted to the new C1-4, then cancel it and I got 30k more?? (45k vs 75k)
Aug 20, 2018, 4:15 pm
#5990
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
First of all, fantastic choice, Glacier is my favorite park and I am planning a trip there as we speak.
Second, I am trying to objectively beat that drum for the real hit was the hotel coverage and not the 30k overpayment. I hope the fervor continues in that vain and people don't get tricked by the 30k refund and think they won.
If I understand correctly -
I was assuming the 30k rebate in there for OC6 holders converted to NC4.
So before, you had OC6 but needed OC7, so you add 30k to get your hotel.
Now, you have NC4 + 30k refund, have to pay 60k to get to NC5. The same net 30k to get your hotel.
Second, I am trying to objectively beat that drum for the real hit was the hotel coverage and not the 30k overpayment. I hope the fervor continues in that vain and people don't get tricked by the 30k refund and think they won.
If I understand correctly -
I was assuming the 30k rebate in there for OC6 holders converted to NC4.
So before, you had OC6 but needed OC7, so you add 30k to get your hotel.
Now, you have NC4 + 30k refund, have to pay 60k to get to NC5. The same net 30k to get your hotel.
The upgrade cost is based on the surrender value of what your original cert is. So for an OC6 to NC5, you pay 60K, versus in the defunct TP you only need to pay 30K from OC6 to OC7.
With the 30K refund, your NC1-4 has ONLY 45K surrender value, and therefore to get up to 135K for the NC5, you would need to pay 90K.
This is how the supervisor explained to me when she told me the system would DIFFERENTIATE what the value of the Partial NC4 is, based on where it originally came from.
She specifically told me Mine has 75K because it was from the Partial Cat6. That is why the upgrade to NC5 would be 60K for my 75K Partial NC1-4.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:16 pm
#5991
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,411
You are very naive. Had it not be a lot of people calling Marriott on the weekend AND lots of negative publicity on various Social Media platform, you can continue patiently waiting...
Many who received the short-ends are NOT outsiders nor gamblers - they are misled by the CSRs and the strange "official" channel that is the Starwood Lurker who is given bogus information to feed the members. (Not his fault as he is just a messenger who has to do his job.)
Note that the last blow of the bad news is delivered by a different, much junior Lurker instead of William who has told us unattached floaters would be converted to points according to the "Loyalty Team", any coincidence?
Many who received the short-ends are NOT outsiders nor gamblers - they are misled by the CSRs and the strange "official" channel that is the Starwood Lurker who is given bogus information to feed the members. (Not his fault as he is just a messenger who has to do his job.)
Note that the last blow of the bad news is delivered by a different, much junior Lurker instead of William who has told us unattached floaters would be converted to points according to the "Loyalty Team", any coincidence?
I do find it odd that the news now comes from Starwood Lurker IV and that William has been out of the office since August 1 without an expected date of return. I truly hope he returns; he was extremely helpful to many people on FT.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:19 pm
#5992
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Doesn't spending points to buy a TP count as "qualifying activity" for the purposes of keeping Marriott points alive? In my account, it lists the date of my last qualifying activity as the day I bought a TP last year and lists my points expiration date as 2 years from that date, completely ignoring the TP I bought more recently. I would chalk it up to a glitch/the merger, but this isn't something that should have been affected by it and the merging is supposedly done and an IT success story.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:20 pm
#5993
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,377
You can say that because now you would enjoy the fruit from others effort. Yes, that is one of the many options as well. It has nothing to do being civilized or not. It is much more to whether consumer rights are protected. That major corporations can not just bully the customers at will. It will backlash them.
I am sure in Canada the consumer protection is equally strong. No idea about Switzerland which should be very civilized based on own experiences. Yet, EU has even stronger consumer protection laws than in the US, but of course Switzerland is not belonging to EU.
Now while we are at it, I remember you have posted numerous lengthy posts on whatever "info" you were getting (being fed) by "Mr Marriott's Office". Guess what? None of the "info" turned out to be truth. All were deceiving lies. Good for you still have patience and virtue to wait for Marriott to do the right thing... The company has never intended to do the right thing from the beginning. Else it would not be such ridiculous conversion chart and betting on members would just take it lying down.
It should have announced the one time refund on the overcharge at the same time the new conversion table was announced.
Did it do so? Or rather, this is just an Ad Hoc reaction to the disgruntled customers everywhere?
I can tell that Marriott has totally lost my confidence as a corporation that I am willing to give my business to. All these subsequent gestures are not going to make up the damage on goodwill it has done. full stop.
I am sure in Canada the consumer protection is equally strong. No idea about Switzerland which should be very civilized based on own experiences. Yet, EU has even stronger consumer protection laws than in the US, but of course Switzerland is not belonging to EU.
Now while we are at it, I remember you have posted numerous lengthy posts on whatever "info" you were getting (being fed) by "Mr Marriott's Office". Guess what? None of the "info" turned out to be truth. All were deceiving lies. Good for you still have patience and virtue to wait for Marriott to do the right thing... The company has never intended to do the right thing from the beginning. Else it would not be such ridiculous conversion chart and betting on members would just take it lying down.
It should have announced the one time refund on the overcharge at the same time the new conversion table was announced.
Did it do so? Or rather, this is just an Ad Hoc reaction to the disgruntled customers everywhere?
I can tell that Marriott has totally lost my confidence as a corporation that I am willing to give my business to. All these subsequent gestures are not going to make up the damage on goodwill it has done. full stop.
It's of course up to everyone to decide how they want to approach their real or perceived slight, all I'm asking for is to not take it out on the poor front line agents both on this board and on the phones. I've been in that situation (not Marriott, of course), and I'm sure anyone who's worked in any customer-service facing job can relate.
Thanks for posting that here - I was already aware and that's kind of what I was referring to. It's the Monday after a Friday merger and Marriott's announced it'd take a month to get everything figured out properly, so fixing this in less than one business-day is really, really fast as far as I'm concerned.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:22 pm
#5994
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
You will able to do upgrade, see my post on that based on the conversation with a supervisor over the weekend. Just not immediately but it is in the plan. Only that you would pay up to the new chart cost - that again, is a devaluation because the cost between the old 30K to old 35K hotels was only 30K from old Cat 6 to old Cat 7. Now it is 60K from old Cat 6 (75K surrender value) to new Cat 5 (the same 35K as the old Cat 7), as the surrender value of the new Cat 5 is 135K.
If you want to upgrade, wait some time. It is possible per the supervisor when I asked the very same question.
If you want to upgrade, wait some time. It is possible per the supervisor when I asked the very same question.
Last edited by rny321; Aug 20, 2018 at 4:32 pm
Aug 20, 2018, 4:25 pm
#5995
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
I have zero doubt that William told us exactly what he was told by the Loyalty Team. I believe (but am less certain) that those people subsequently changed their minds (as opposed to having lied from the start). But then those people decided to hide the facts from their customers, for reasons that no one can explain.
I do find it odd that the news now comes from Starwood Lurker IV and that William has been out of the office since August 1 without an expected date of return. I truly hope he returns; he was extremely helpful to many people on FT.
I do find it odd that the news now comes from Starwood Lurker IV and that William has been out of the office since August 1 without an expected date of return. I truly hope he returns; he was extremely helpful to many people on FT.
It was a fishing expedition by Marriott from the beginning, many test balloons have launched and the top basses made decisions based on reactions they got.
I also felt the fires fanned by the blogs, especially Greg of the Frequent Miler to tell his reader that Cat 8 was the category that would reap the biggest windfall, really brought attention to the Marriott management. With no less than 6 or 7 articles written by him and his other writer on the topic of How to Maximize the potential windfalls/ profits on the Upcoming Conversion, Marriott decides to show WHO IS THE BOSS.
Then it saw the latest test balloon had caught fire, i.e. the outright devalue of Cat 6, 8 and the Tier 1 to 3, essentially took money from people's hands without anything in return, has gone too far. So an Ad Hoc remedy is announced.
Else, why would it not announce the remedy the same time when the final conversion table is out?
Aug 20, 2018, 4:27 pm
#5996
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
NO. The upgrade cost is NOT as your assumption. You totally misunderstand how it is caucluated.
The upgrade cost is based on the surrender value of what your original cert is. So for an OC6 to NC5, you pay 60K, versus in the defunct TP you only need to pay 30K from OC6 to OC7.
With the 30K refund, your NC1-4 has ONLY 45K surrender value, and therefore to get up to 135K for the NC5, you would need to pay 90K.
This is how the supervisor explained to me when she told me the system would DIFFERENTIATE what the value of the Partial NC4 is, based on where it originally came from.
She specifically told me Mine has 75K because it was from the Partial Cat6. That is why the upgrade to NC5 would be 60K for my 75K Partial NC1-4.
The upgrade cost is based on the surrender value of what your original cert is. So for an OC6 to NC5, you pay 60K, versus in the defunct TP you only need to pay 30K from OC6 to OC7.
With the 30K refund, your NC1-4 has ONLY 45K surrender value, and therefore to get up to 135K for the NC5, you would need to pay 90K.
This is how the supervisor explained to me when she told me the system would DIFFERENTIATE what the value of the Partial NC4 is, based on where it originally came from.
She specifically told me Mine has 75K because it was from the Partial Cat6. That is why the upgrade to NC5 would be 60K for my 75K Partial NC1-4.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:32 pm
#5997
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
When looking at the new travel packages, the difference in cost between a Cat 1-4 package and a Cat 5 is based on peak rates. The same is true for other categories. Since MPG is using peak values for new travel packages and tried to sell the concept that 30K old Cat 6 was equal to a new 30K peak Cat 1-4, it is possible that the same value is used for each. My speculation is the cost to upgrade a new Cat 1-4 to a Cat 5 will be 60K, the cost to upgrade from a 40K peak Cat 5 to a 60K peak Cat 6 will be 120K and so forth.
The cost is based on the existing Surrender Value of YOUR OWN Cert and the surrender value of the new certs per the new chart.
Please note up till the latest announcement of the one time refund and downgrade, people who own Cat 6 have a different surrender value of the owners who own the Cat 5 certs. She did not mention even one time what points of the NC1-4 would be, she just used MY Partial Cat 6 cert that had a 75K surrender value to calculate the NC5 upgrade cost.
FWIW, as early as Friday night, there were already sporadic DPs that people dumped their Partial Cat 6 for 75K, despite the "lock down".
Basically the lessons I take away in this ordeal is, NEVER trust a company that is on its way to become a monopoly in its industry, or at least has full intention to do so. In that context, it will no longer care about customers well being. Customers will be foolish to trust such a corporation.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:36 pm
#5998
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
If this is true:
"You actually have until these certificates expire in order to exchange them, and once you do, the certificates will once again be valid for a year, so you can potentially make that work in your favor."
and if they will indeed no longer allow extensions then the old cat 5, 7, 9, and T4-5 are suddenly put at a disadvantage. Why should some get a 1-year extension when others can't?
and if they will indeed no longer allow extensions then the old cat 5, 7, 9, and T4-5 are suddenly put at a disadvantage. Why should some get a 1-year extension when others can't?
Aug 20, 2018, 4:37 pm
#5999
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,411
I agree William has been excellent over the years in helping us SPG members. He was just doing his job when he related the information, and he had more than once, specifically reminded the forum that whatever he posted in any channel, has to be first approved by the "Loyalty Team". So he was doing a thankless job being the messenger.
It was a fishing expedition by Marriott from the beginning, many test balloons have launched and the top basses made decisions based on reactions they got.
I also felt the fires fanned by the blogs, especially Greg of the Frequent Miler to tell his reader that Cat 8 was the category that would reap the biggest windfall, really brought attention to the Marriott management. With no less than 6 or 7 articles written by him and his other writer on the topic of How to Maximize the potential windfalls/ profits on the Upcoming Conversion, Marriott decides to show WHO IS THE BOSS.
Then it saw the latest test balloon had caught fire, i.e. the outright devalue of Cat 6, 8 and the Tier 1 to 3, essentially took money from people's hands without anything in return, has gone too far. So an Ad Hoc remedy is announced.
Else, why would it not announce the remedy the same time when the final conversion table is out?
It was a fishing expedition by Marriott from the beginning, many test balloons have launched and the top basses made decisions based on reactions they got.
I also felt the fires fanned by the blogs, especially Greg of the Frequent Miler to tell his reader that Cat 8 was the category that would reap the biggest windfall, really brought attention to the Marriott management. With no less than 6 or 7 articles written by him and his other writer on the topic of How to Maximize the potential windfalls/ profits on the Upcoming Conversion, Marriott decides to show WHO IS THE BOSS.
Then it saw the latest test balloon had caught fire, i.e. the outright devalue of Cat 6, 8 and the Tier 1 to 3, essentially took money from people's hands without anything in return, has gone too far. So an Ad Hoc remedy is announced.
Else, why would it not announce the remedy the same time when the final conversion table is out?
I'm not sure to whom their "we are the boss" message was directed. To the bloggers? To us, Marriott's customers? If the bloggers, it's sure odd for Marriott to send a message to them by hurting its own customers. If it's the customers, that's really weird marketing, especially as they try to keep the SPG loyalists. And while they'd be right about who the boss is for dollars already spent to earn MR/SPG points, they'd be wrong about future dollars to be spent. This is a marketing program that's supposed to make us want to spend more with Marriott in the future, right?
Aug 20, 2018, 4:37 pm
#6000
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
I am just relaying on WHAT I was told by a supervisor over the weekend when I asked about the Upgrade possibility and the cost.
The cost is based on the existing Surrender Value of YOUR OWN Cert and the surrender value of the new certs per the new chart.
Please note up till the latest announcement of the one time refund and downgrade, people who own Cat 6 have a different surrender value of the owners who own the Cat 5 certs. She did not mention even one time what points of the NC1-4 would be, she just used MY Partial Cat 6 cert that had a 75K surrender value to calculate the NC5 upgrade cost.
FWIW, as early as Friday night, there were already sporadic DPs that people dumped their Partial Cat 6 for 75K, despite the "lock down".
Basically the lessons I take away in this ordeal is, NEVER trust a company that is on its way to become a monopoly in its industry, or at least has full intention to do so. In that context, it will no longer care about customers well being. Customers will be foolish to trust such a corporation.
The cost is based on the existing Surrender Value of YOUR OWN Cert and the surrender value of the new certs per the new chart.
Please note up till the latest announcement of the one time refund and downgrade, people who own Cat 6 have a different surrender value of the owners who own the Cat 5 certs. She did not mention even one time what points of the NC1-4 would be, she just used MY Partial Cat 6 cert that had a 75K surrender value to calculate the NC5 upgrade cost.
FWIW, as early as Friday night, there were already sporadic DPs that people dumped their Partial Cat 6 for 75K, despite the "lock down".
Basically the lessons I take away in this ordeal is, NEVER trust a company that is on its way to become a monopoly in its industry, or at least has full intention to do so. In that context, it will no longer care about customers well being. Customers will be foolish to trust such a corporation.
