Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
Aug 20, 2018, 1:10 am
#5866
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 14
Sanity check please - we've bought our Cat 9 specifically for JW Marriott Hong Kong, now my TP is a Cat 6 and JW has also been downgraded to Cat 6 so we've haven't lost any value/utility?
Aug 20, 2018, 1:13 am
#5867
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,394
Aug 20, 2018, 2:08 am
#5868
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYZ
Programs: Ex-Bonvoyed, Hyatt, Hilton, BR, AC, AA
Posts: 1,291
If Marriott wishes to use next year's peak pricing to value the converted certificate, then they need to be honest about screwing over people with tier 4-5 certs, as those certs will no longer be able to redeem for top tier properties come next year, despite costing a staggering 540k points. Basically you get 2 and a half months to attach it, or you're screwed.
Marriott completely bungled this transition for people who got cat 6, cat 8, tier 1-3 and tier 4-5, all for what? To save on a one time only expense, but draw the ire of so many Marriott/SPG/RC Elites. How is this worthwhile for them?
Marriott needs to wise up and just be generous with their members, and chalk up the cost as a one time good will gesture or cost of merging programs. Start the new program on the right foot.
Marriott completely bungled this transition for people who got cat 6, cat 8, tier 1-3 and tier 4-5, all for what? To save on a one time only expense, but draw the ire of so many Marriott/SPG/RC Elites. How is this worthwhile for them?
Marriott needs to wise up and just be generous with their members, and chalk up the cost as a one time good will gesture or cost of merging programs. Start the new program on the right foot.
Aug 20, 2018, 2:37 am
#5869
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,431
Any word on extending it for another year from current expiration date?
Aug 20, 2018, 2:38 am
#5870
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Silver, AA, WN, DL
Posts: 4,091
I know that emotions are running high right now, but I am genuinely curious how this specific Travel Package devaluation stacks against the big picture of the Marriott/SPG merger.
Obviously the TP outcome was bad for those expecting a better outcome, but on the whole, is it really that bad? I haven't been keeping up as I burned through my points last year with a TP and I have yet to decide whether Hilton would be better (benefits and redemption value wise).
So, in all fairness, is this the worst thing that happened from the merger? I don't suspect the TP was of major value to most Marriott members (except for those that had a ton of points to convert in the first place or trying to find maximum ROI on their Marriott points).
Obviously the TP outcome was bad for those expecting a better outcome, but on the whole, is it really that bad? I haven't been keeping up as I burned through my points last year with a TP and I have yet to decide whether Hilton would be better (benefits and redemption value wise).
So, in all fairness, is this the worst thing that happened from the merger? I don't suspect the TP was of major value to most Marriott members (except for those that had a ton of points to convert in the first place or trying to find maximum ROI on their Marriott points).
Aug 20, 2018, 2:44 am
#5871
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
I know that emotions are running high right now, but I am genuinely curious how this specific Travel Package devaluation stacks against the big picture of the Marriott/SPG merger.
Obviously the TP outcome was bad for those expecting a better outcome, but on the whole, is it really that bad? I haven't been keeping up as I burned through my points last year with a TP and I have yet to decide whether Hilton would be better (benefits and redemption value wise).
So, in all fairness, is this the worst thing that happened from the merger? I don't suspect the TP was of major value to most Marriott members (except for those that had a ton of points to convert in the first place or trying to find maximum ROI on their Marriott points).
Obviously the TP outcome was bad for those expecting a better outcome, but on the whole, is it really that bad? I haven't been keeping up as I burned through my points last year with a TP and I have yet to decide whether Hilton would be better (benefits and redemption value wise).
So, in all fairness, is this the worst thing that happened from the merger? I don't suspect the TP was of major value to most Marriott members (except for those that had a ton of points to convert in the first place or trying to find maximum ROI on their Marriott points).
Marriott seems to be playing out of the Delta SkyMiles playbook.
Aug 20, 2018, 5:16 am
#5873
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 19
This is just brilliant. Here's the translation of the internal Marriott meeting where they decided on the strategy:
"Let's keep getting people to pay 30,000 more points to go from category 1-5 to 6 and from 7 to 8 even though we know that they actually get nothing for those 30,000 points. Then, when they get upset about that, we'll tell them that they should be happy, because as badly as we treated them by knowingly taking 30,000 points from them for nothing, we could have treated them even worse."
If you do work for Marriott (which I sincerely doubt), you should tell your bosses that it's not working.
One other thing: you keep talking about being told to attach to maximize value. But that advice came from Starwood Lurker in a post where he said that floaters would be converted to points. 99.9% of SPG/MR members never saw that because they've never heard of FT or Starwood Lurker. And even the 0.1% who did see if later learned that the entire post turned out to be wrong -- they decided not to turn floaters into points. The only email that they tried (and failed) to send to everyone did not say that you had to attach to maximize value. IMHO, that excuse doesn't fly.
And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a certificate with a maximum value of 30,000 would be converted to one worth 35,000 where they chose to have no 30,000 point properties in 2018. It was either 25,000 or 35,000. They choose to stick it to their customers rather than absorb the cost themselves. I think a good company does the opposite.
"Let's keep getting people to pay 30,000 more points to go from category 1-5 to 6 and from 7 to 8 even though we know that they actually get nothing for those 30,000 points. Then, when they get upset about that, we'll tell them that they should be happy, because as badly as we treated them by knowingly taking 30,000 points from them for nothing, we could have treated them even worse."
If you do work for Marriott (which I sincerely doubt), you should tell your bosses that it's not working.
One other thing: you keep talking about being told to attach to maximize value. But that advice came from Starwood Lurker in a post where he said that floaters would be converted to points. 99.9% of SPG/MR members never saw that because they've never heard of FT or Starwood Lurker. And even the 0.1% who did see if later learned that the entire post turned out to be wrong -- they decided not to turn floaters into points. The only email that they tried (and failed) to send to everyone did not say that you had to attach to maximize value. IMHO, that excuse doesn't fly.
And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a certificate with a maximum value of 30,000 would be converted to one worth 35,000 where they chose to have no 30,000 point properties in 2018. It was either 25,000 or 35,000. They choose to stick it to their customers rather than absorb the cost themselves. I think a good company does the opposite.
My boyfriend and I booked 27 category 6 packages for our wedding. The hotel is now category 5 and our certs are worthless.
I opened a Facebook page calling Marriott out.
Share if you agree Marriott just defrauded their customers
Aug 20, 2018, 5:22 am
#5874
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 177
Agree on #2 .
For #1 , in my opinion it was a hotel coverage numbers game. They picked a threshold of old hotels covered in new cert, and aligned accordingly. The numbers below are for the old to new hotel coverage for n-1, n and n+1 new cats where n is the converted new cat.
Cat5 ->4 38% 99% 100%
Cat6->4, 2% 71% 99%
Cat7->5, 18% 98% 100%
Cat8->5, 0% 70% 99%
Cat9->6, 2% 76% 99%
T3->6 0% 82% 100%
T5->7 0% 21% 100%
Looks like the threshold was about 70%, but it falls off a cliff at n-1 which probably drove it more than anything. I know people are upset about paying 30k more than they had to for the same result, but the real loss was the ~30% hotel coverage. Even Cat9 people lost here. This essentially is a devaluation, which is fine, but should have been announced or avoided by mapping to a higher hotel coverage. Neither happened.
For #1 , in my opinion it was a hotel coverage numbers game. They picked a threshold of old hotels covered in new cert, and aligned accordingly. The numbers below are for the old to new hotel coverage for n-1, n and n+1 new cats where n is the converted new cat.
Cat5 ->4 38% 99% 100%
Cat6->4, 2% 71% 99%
Cat7->5, 18% 98% 100%
Cat8->5, 0% 70% 99%
Cat9->6, 2% 76% 99%
T3->6 0% 82% 100%
T5->7 0% 21% 100%
Looks like the threshold was about 70%, but it falls off a cliff at n-1 which probably drove it more than anything. I know people are upset about paying 30k more than they had to for the same result, but the real loss was the ~30% hotel coverage. Even Cat9 people lost here. This essentially is a devaluation, which is fine, but should have been announced or avoided by mapping to a higher hotel coverage. Neither happened.
People are upset that their travel package can't be used on certain properties when a few days ago it could, but the issue here isn't that they got screwed in the travel package conversion, the problem is that some properties increased in price. But that is completely unrelated to travel packages... think about it this way: if instead of a travel package you were planning on booking using points, you would need more points to book those properties today than you did a few days ago.
Some will argue that because they bought the travel package before the category changed then they should be able to use it at the same properties regardless of what the new categories are. But that's flawed logic and it has never worked that way: at least once a year there is a round of category updates and the only way to lock in the old price is to make a reservation before the changes take effect. It's always been that way.
Aug 20, 2018, 5:28 am
#5875
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 19
The problem is that you're mixing two different things: the old travel packages being converted into new travel packages, and hotels changing categories. While they did happen on the same day, they are still two independent and different events.
People are upset that their travel package can't be used on certain properties when a few days ago it could, but the issue here isn't that they got screwed in the travel package conversion, the problem is that some properties increased in price. But that is completely unrelated to travel packages... think about it this way: if instead of a travel package you were planning on booking using points, you would need more points to book those properties today than you did a few days ago.
Some will argue that because they bought the travel package before the category changed then they should be able to use it at the same properties regardless of what the new categories are. But that's flawed logic and it has never worked that way: at least once a year there is a round of category updates and the only way to lock in the old price is to make a reservation before the changes take effect. It's always been that way.
People are upset that their travel package can't be used on certain properties when a few days ago it could, but the issue here isn't that they got screwed in the travel package conversion, the problem is that some properties increased in price. But that is completely unrelated to travel packages... think about it this way: if instead of a travel package you were planning on booking using points, you would need more points to book those properties today than you did a few days ago.
Some will argue that because they bought the travel package before the category changed then they should be able to use it at the same properties regardless of what the new categories are. But that's flawed logic and it has never worked that way: at least once a year there is a round of category updates and the only way to lock in the old price is to make a reservation before the changes take effect. It's always been that way.
The logic of prices going up is flawed. the certificates stated (some people even have paper certs sent to them) that this cert is good for any hotel up to category 6.
How can they replace a paper certificate or gift voucher for something of lesser value.
Aug 20, 2018, 5:54 am
#5876
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
“Marrirot ruins destination wedding and honeymoon plans for its biggest point collectors” is the kind of headline that grabs attention.
Aug 20, 2018, 6:29 am
#5877
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 177
The logic of prices going up is flawed. the certificates stated (some people even have paper certs sent to them) that this cert is good for any hotel up to category 6.
How can they replace a paper certificate or gift voucher for something of lesser value.
How can they replace a paper certificate or gift voucher for something of lesser value.
This exact scenario literally happens every year and everyone knows the rules. For example, if you had bought a category 5 certificate in February 2018, and the property you were eyeing went up to category 6 during the March 2018 category update, you would not be able to use your certificate at that property anymore unless you had booked before the category change went into effect to lock in the old rate. Category changes are always announced ahead of time to give people time to book at the old rate and this was no exception.
Going back to your case, if you compare the point value of your certificate with the cost of the property that you're interested in, it's easy to see why this doesn't work:
- The certificate you bought (old category 6) was worth 30k points per night.
- The property you want to book now (new category 5) is worth 35k points per night.
Why you would expect this to be possible is beyond me.
Aug 20, 2018, 7:12 am
#5878
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 298
While I don't know your exact plans you had with these certificates, just a few points to note:
- If you were planning on redeeming all 27 certs at the same time at the same property this may have been difficult.
- Even if you were planning on an extended stay at this property, it may have been difficult to secure that many consecutive nights for rewards redemptions.
In order to avoid any such unwanted occurrence one could have reserved the room(s) at the property in question and then attach the certificates later. This way you can secure the availability and also the old awards category. Hindsight is 20/20, but since you have so many unused certificates now, you may well try and max the value out of those.
BTW: Congrats on being able to spend 8.1m MR-points many people will never earn that many in a lifetime. And: you still have the airline miles to live it up in the sky.
Aug 20, 2018, 7:43 am
#5879
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
In order to avoid any such unwanted occurrence one could have reserved the room(s) at the property in question and then attach the certificates later. This way you can secure the availability and also the old awards category. Hindsight is 20/20, but since you have so many unused certificates now, you may well try and max the value out of those.
Aug 20, 2018, 7:49 am
#5880
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
I think it's Marriott's decision for the conversion. But it can do it better, either:
- Publish the conversion chart before Aug 18
- or, allow certificates upgrade/downgrade after Aug 18
I got my tier 1-3, hoping get cat 7. I know I am gambling. But either of the thing happens above, I would still be happy to get what I need for my 7 night stay.
- Publish the conversion chart before Aug 18
- or, allow certificates upgrade/downgrade after Aug 18
I got my tier 1-3, hoping get cat 7. I know I am gambling. But either of the thing happens above, I would still be happy to get what I need for my 7 night stay.