Marriott Travel Packages

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Old Sep 2, 18, 1:10 am   -   Wikipost
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Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.

The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:

Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
  • Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
  • Submit your request
As a reminder, status.marriott.com will periodically have additional updates.
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html

The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================

If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.

Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:

"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
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Old Aug 19, 18, 5:52 pm
  #5821  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: IC Amb :-(, UA silver, BA Gold, SPG Plat, A-Club Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 900
I purchased SPG points over past few months because I realised that my existing cat-15 certs were not sufficient for my needs as the ongoing devaluation meant that cat1-5 certs are effectively worthless. I upgraded 3 cat1-5 packages to cat 1-6 packages, with explicitly purchased points (i.e. with a very clear dollar value cost to me).
This direct points.com/SPG spend was now 100% wasted. I feel like I have had that money fraudulently taken from me. it is NOT correct to say no-one loses. I spent money to upgrade something which has now been downgraded directly and precisely back where I started before I spent the money.

This is a loss, and no amount of marketing speak can make this statement not true.
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catharsis is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 5:53 pm
  #5822  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by farnorthtrader View Post
It also doesn't add up that a 30K/night certificate on Friday became a 25K/night certificate on Saturday. And the people selling the certificate knew when they were selling it that they were going to renege on what they were selling.
Yes, IMO, the biggest point of contention is that the phone reps selling TPs sold them as one thing and made guarantees about their features/usability/value/whatever that were patently false, even within hours of some people buying them. If they had even said outright they didn't know, that would be frustrating, though not incorrect. But, to guarantee things like being able to use your certificate to book a hotel of that same category even after the merger (e.g. being able to use a [old] category X cert to book a [new] category X hotels even after the merger) was entirely misleading and inappropriate.

Edit: not mentioning the imminent loss of the flexibility to upgrade and downgrade certificates is also significant. I don't think anything about that was officially sent out to all members ahead of time or disclosed to any purchasers.
ftlurker2 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 5:54 pm
  #5823  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Arcadia, CA
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 754
I may exercise the cancellation to get points back if that's an option come 9/18. I'm still pretty angry at the lack of communication, and not formally publishing these changes given they knew how they wanted to handle the certs. Additionally, a forum representative isn't exactly the best way to release this kind of information. Everyone is pointing to a FT FORUM post as the official announcement. What about people who don't spend their time on here or read travel blogs? Even then, Starwood Lurker is usually on point, but they have given out wrong information on a few occasions already...not confidence inspiring given the resources available to a company like Marriott
chongl is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 6:09 pm
  #5824  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: At an airport-on a cruise ship
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Platinum, SPG-Platinum Thnks to FT
Posts: 4,178
Originally Posted by OssianBlue View Post
I'm not sure what his deal is, but he's been a consistent source of bad information and confusion for a long time on this long thread.
As have many others. It did not help anybody when people posted 5 different answers from 5 different CSRs for the same question. That in and of itself caused me a lot of concern. As someone upthread posted this thread has been around for 17 YEARS with minor activity and I would guess that was a reflection of the level of interest in TPs prior to 6 months ago. Since then its been a mess of bad info after bad info.
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cruisr is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 6:10 pm
  #5825  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,021
Originally Posted by chongl View Post
I may exercise the cancellation to get points back if that's an option come 9/18. I'm still pretty angry at the lack of communication, and not formally publishing these changes given they knew how they wanted to handle the certs. Additionally, a forum representative isn't exactly the best way to release this kind of information. Everyone is pointing to a FT FORUM post as the official announcement. What about people who don't spend their time on here or read travel blogs? Even then, Starwood Lurker is usually on point, but they have given out wrong information on a few occasions already...not confidence inspiring given the resources available to a company like Marriott
Yes as of right now disappointing but the certs are locked for a month and in the end I am confident Marriott will do what is completely fair for the owners of the old TP certs.
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HHonors OUTSIDER is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 6:26 pm
  #5826  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl., Accor-Plat., Former FPC-Plat.
Posts: 578
Originally Posted by OssianBlue View Post
I'm not sure what his deal is, but he's been a consistent source of bad information and confusion for a long time on this long thread.
That poster bought a 40K per night Cat 8 package and attached it to a hotel that was going down in price to 35K. The principal difference between him and others who bought Cat 8 certificates is the other posters didn't make conscious decisions to overpay and they know they lost out. What's that word that goes into the saying ".... is bliss?"
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rny321 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 6:48 pm
  #5827  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Plat, A List Pref, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by HHonors OUTSIDER View Post
Yes as of right now disappointing but the certs are locked for a month and in the end I am confident Marriott will do what is completely fair for the owners of the old TP certs.
I was completely confident that they were going to be fair from the beginning...I was totally wrong. What makes you have such faith? I'm a huge MR supporter (maybe I should change it to past tense) but the way this was handled was purposefully deceptive. They knew the answers to how they would map the TP's, they knew their CS agents were giving out bad information and they knew that bad info would lead to many people getting the screw job. Really there is no other way to see it (aside from the "I told you so crowd"). Marriott has always been fair to me which is why, according to the newly updated app, I have 19 years of elite membership with them. However, the way this was handled was poor and I don't see how they make it right. Sure they could deposit some points back into people's account but that doesn't change the fact that we know they had bad intentions and are only relenting because of peer pressure.
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Old Aug 19, 18, 6:49 pm
  #5828  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Talking

Originally Posted by rny321 View Post
What's that word that goes into the saying ".... is bliss?"
Orgasm?
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ftlurker2 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 7:16 pm
  #5829  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ocean Beach
Programs: Alaska MPVG75, AAdvantage PlatPro, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 529
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun View Post
A month ago cancellation of unattached certificates was a real possibility.



It never added up that an old 30K per night certificate should have converted to a 35K per night new certificate.

Everyone should be happy they still have a certificate with value! Much better than 45K residual "worth" in your account and a cancelled certificate.

James
Marriott could have done many things that would have reduced the value of outstanding certificates or even have made them all but unuseable. But unilateral cancellation and return of points that would not allow booking of equivalent hotel stays is one of the few things they almost certainly could not have done with legal impunity.
25milesfromhome is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 7:45 pm
  #5830  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 266
So, if this is actually true we may actually see some legal activity on the TPs:

https://www.facebook.com/Marriottrewardfraud/
OssianBlue is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 8:15 pm
  #5831  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 86
Here are 2 things I don't understand:

1. Why was Marriott willing to give Cat. 9 holders 10-15k per night of value in excess of their old certificate, but were unwilling to give Cat 6 and 8 holders only 5-10k of potential extra value?

2. Why didn't Marriott just let the certificates convert to a points based certificate, e.g. an old Cat 8 would be good for a 7-night stay for up to 40k per night, and allow the member to book a higher category room but be required to pay the difference in points at time of booking? This would, in effect, be exactly the same position as the member was in before, except for the ability to use on SPG properties and the inability to downgrade the certificate, which we could call a wash. That way Marriott would not have to be either stingy or generous and it would be completely fair to all involved. Seems like that would have been better for Marriott both from a PR angle and to prevent the loss they'll take on Cat.9 appreciation.
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Old Aug 19, 18, 8:20 pm
  #5832  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 266
Originally Posted by Julie17 View Post
Here are 2 things I don't understand:

1. Why was Marriott willing to give Cat. 9 holders 10-15k per night of value in excess of their old certificate, but were unwilling to give Cat 6 and 8 holders only 5-10k of potential extra value?

2. Why didn't Marriott just let the certificates convert to a points based certificate, e.g. an old Cat 8 would be good for a 7-night stay for up to 40k per night, and allow the member to book a higher category room but be required to pay the difference in points at time of booking? This would, in effect, be exactly the same position as the member was in before, except for the ability to use on SPG properties and the inability to downgrade the certificate, which we could call a wash. That way Marriott would not have to be either stingy or generous and it would be completely fair to all involved. Seems like that would have been better for Marriott both from a PR angle and to prevent the loss they'll take on Cat.9 appreciation.
My guesses:

1. They probably wanted to map Cat. 9s to their easier match of new Cat. 6s however they would have lost the ability to argue that no existing TP was harmed because it was at least the value of the new peak (going from a 45K value to peak 40K).

2. They didn't want to deal with legacy certificates and wanted a clean sweep into the new program. This approach probably just requires a single variable with the original TP category for legacy certificates that are detached from reservations.
OssianBlue is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 8:22 pm
  #5833  
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun View Post
Where in the old MR program did it say you could attach your certificate to a former SPG property after migration? You bought a pre-merger TP. A month ago cancellation of unattached certificates was a real possibility. The debate then was "worth" & "value" of the certificate. Clearly, the Cat 1-5 certificate was not "worth" it's 150K "value." in the old or new MR.

Recently everyone was advised that they would be able to apply their unattached certificates post merger and that the new chart would prevail.

By not attaching to a Marriott property, which would have afforded maximum value, and maybe better flexibily, you are still getting better value than the 45K residual "worth" you would have gotten if it had been cancelled.

I purchased a Category 8 TP and attached it to Category 8 property which is now a Category 5. Would I have preferred to book at former SPG property? Yes, I would have. But it wasn't possible to at the time. I locked in a tangible $2100 USD savings for 135K Marriott Points. I wasn't going to risk that for an uncertain outcome. Having attached my certificate, I will be able to, upon request, get 30K points refunded, without a cancel/rebook, as my 40K per night reservation now only requires 35K per night. That 30K refund will provide a night in a Cat 4 with 5K MR extra or a night in a Cat 5 with an additional 5K MR. That is a nice little value added bonus.

It never added up that an old 30K per night certificate should have converted to a 35K per night new certificate.

Most of the value of the former TP was in the FF Miles. No complaints there that I have read. If you didn't have a real need for a hotel certificate under the old program then perhaps speculatively leaving a certificate unattached in anticipation it would offer better value post merger was not a good approach. Now 300K will give you 125K FF Miles. Anything extra with a certificate for a stay is a bonus.

Everyone should be happy they still have a certificate with value! Much better than 45K residual "worth" in your account and a cancelled certificate.

James
Maybe in Canada companies can fleece and knowingly steal from their customers but here in America we have consumer protection laws that every company selling anything (including TP's) must abide by. Marriott knowingly stole points from their customers by selling a product at inflated rates and it is indisputable. How Marriott would think they would not get costly backlash should they not correct this is beyond me.
EL3V3N is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 8:35 pm
  #5834  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: At an airport-on a cruise ship
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Platinum, SPG-Platinum Thnks to FT
Posts: 4,178
As an aside, I wonder what the projected occupancy rates for Domes of Elounda will be? I have a feeling their projections will be off as all the speculative attaching of travel certs will now probably be cancelled.
cruisr is offline  
Old Aug 19, 18, 8:38 pm
  #5835  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,244
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun View Post
Where in the old MR program did it say you could attach your certificate to a former SPG property after migration? You bought a pre-merger TP. A month ago cancellation of unattached certificates was a real possibility. The debate then was "worth" & "value" of the certificate. Clearly, the Cat 1-5 certificate was not "worth" it's 150K "value." in the old or new MR.

Recently everyone was advised that they would be able to apply their unattached certificates post merger and that the new chart would prevail.

By not attaching to a Marriott property, which would have afforded maximum value, and maybe better flexibily, you are still getting better value than the 45K residual "worth" you would have gotten if it had been cancelled.

I purchased a Category 8 TP and attached it to Category 8 property which is now a Category 5. Would I have preferred to book at former SPG property? Yes, I would have. But it wasn't possible to at the time. I locked in a tangible $2100 USD savings for 135K Marriott Points. I wasn't going to risk that for an uncertain outcome. Having attached my certificate, I will be able to, upon request, get 30K points refunded, without a cancel/rebook, as my 40K per night reservation now only requires 35K per night. That 30K refund will provide a night in a Cat 4 with 5K MR extra or a night in a Cat 5 with an additional 5K MR. That is a nice little value added bonus.

It never added up that an old 30K per night certificate should have converted to a 35K per night new certificate.

Most of the value of the former TP was in the FF Miles. No complaints there that I have read. If you didn't have a real need for a hotel certificate under the old program then perhaps speculatively leaving a certificate unattached in anticipation it would offer better value post merger was not a good approach. Now 300K will give you 125K FF Miles. Anything extra with a certificate for a stay is a bonus.

Everyone should be happy they still have a certificate with value! Much better than 45K residual "worth" in your account and a cancelled certificate.

James
This is just brilliant. Here's the translation of the internal Marriott meeting where they decided on the strategy:

"Let's keep getting people to pay 30,000 more points to go from category 1-5 to 6 and from 7 to 8 even though we know that they actually get nothing for those 30,000 points. Then, when they get upset about that, we'll tell them that they should be happy, because as badly as we treated them by knowingly taking 30,000 points from them for nothing, we could have treated them even worse."

If you do work for Marriott (which I sincerely doubt), you should tell your bosses that it's not working.

One other thing: you keep talking about being told to attach to maximize value. But that advice came from Starwood Lurker in a post where he said that floaters would be converted to points. 99.9% of SPG/MR members never saw that because they've never heard of FT or Starwood Lurker. And even the 0.1% who did see if later learned that the entire post turned out to be wrong -- they decided not to turn floaters into points. The only email that they tried (and failed) to send to everyone did not say that you had to attach to maximize value. IMHO, that excuse doesn't fly.

And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a certificate with a maximum value of 30,000 would be converted to one worth 35,000 where they chose to have no 30,000 point properties in 2018. It was either 25,000 or 35,000. They choose to stick it to their customers rather than absorb the cost themselves. I think a good company does the opposite.
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