Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
May 31, 2018, 12:29 am
#3226
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 981
They absolutely can (and almost certainly will) justify giving a lower number of points. The airline miles have value too.
Currently, a redeposited Cat 1-5 cert gives 45K, and a redeposited Cat 6 cert gives 75K. The fact that 45K = 7.5K * 6 is likely a coincidence.
If you could redeposit a Cat 6 cert for 240K points, people would be continually buying Cat 6 packages, getting the miles, and redepositing the certs in order to get virtually limitless airline mile transfer at a 1:1 ratio.
Currently, a redeposited Cat 1-5 cert gives 45K, and a redeposited Cat 6 cert gives 75K. The fact that 45K = 7.5K * 6 is likely a coincidence.
If you could redeposit a Cat 6 cert for 240K points, people would be continually buying Cat 6 packages, getting the miles, and redepositing the certs in order to get virtually limitless airline mile transfer at a 1:1 ratio.
May 31, 2018, 9:25 am
#3227
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
I decided to redeem all the points sitting in my account for three travel packages and called the number on the travel package page
First attempt = A bit of a wait time followed by CSR picking up and disconnecting me without saying a word.
Second attempt = I got through after about 5 minutes and CSR had no clue what I was talking about and kept asking me for my travel dates. Then suggested I call Marriott vacations.
Third attempt = On hold for over 15 minutes then get a CSR who is super professional and helpful and handled everything in like five minutes.
Really seems to depend on who you get connected to.
First attempt = A bit of a wait time followed by CSR picking up and disconnecting me without saying a word.
Second attempt = I got through after about 5 minutes and CSR had no clue what I was talking about and kept asking me for my travel dates. Then suggested I call Marriott vacations.
Third attempt = On hold for over 15 minutes then get a CSR who is super professional and helpful and handled everything in like five minutes.
Really seems to depend on who you get connected to.
May 31, 2018, 11:14 am
#3228
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
Even if they are the ones cancelling? As has been pointed out, the certificates have value, and with Category 6-9, they have a fixed value. It would be dishonest of them to suddenly devalue specifically valued certificates with minimal warning. And right now it is barely over two months and giving you less than 6 nights value at a fixed value level seems incredibly short. I can see how they can justify giving you Category 1 value for the 1-5 certificate but when you get a Category 6 you know how much the nights are supposed to cost. I hope they say something definitive soon.
Refunding the points seems to be an easier way to manage the existing floater certs given the hotel categories will be totally revamped. But refunding at the same value as if you cancel it yourself is NOT RIGHT and NOT A FAIR TREATMENT to the members - it should be an exchange of certs to the category that the old category is mapped to and those who choose to use the certs to stay in future dates are not forced to book a bogus date now. Those who want to cancel later would get the fair amount of pts on however that might be under the new program.
One thing almost certain is, if the TP still exists, the refund of a voluntary canceled cert would never be at the same points needed to book those nights period. Unless they revamp the portion of miles you would get - so it would be a more even split versus the current very lopsided split with most value goes to the miles.
May 31, 2018, 12:30 pm
#3229
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,361
The miles you receive carry the bulk of value.
Refunding the points seems to be an easier way to manage the existing floater certs given the hotel categories will be totally revamped. But refunding at the same value as if you cancel it yourself is NOT RIGHT and NOT A FAIR TREATMENT to the members - it should be an exchange of certs to the category that the old category is mapped to and those who choose to use the certs to stay in future dates are not forced to book a bogus date now. Those who want to cancel later would get the fair amount of pts on however that might be under the new program.
Refunding the points seems to be an easier way to manage the existing floater certs given the hotel categories will be totally revamped. But refunding at the same value as if you cancel it yourself is NOT RIGHT and NOT A FAIR TREATMENT to the members - it should be an exchange of certs to the category that the old category is mapped to and those who choose to use the certs to stay in future dates are not forced to book a bogus date now. Those who want to cancel later would get the fair amount of pts on however that might be under the new program.
One thing almost certain is, if the TP still exists, the refund of a voluntary canceled cert would never be at the same points needed to book those nights period. Unless they revamp the portion of miles you would get - so it would be a more even split versus the current very lopsided split with most value goes to the miles.
By that accounting, the hotel cert is nearly worthless.
May 31, 2018, 2:47 pm
#3230
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
That's what seems fair to me, but all reports seem to be that they will be doing some sort of exchange for points instead of new certificates.
Right. The value of airline miles, in Marriott's mind, is clearly defined (post-Auugst) at 60K points for 25K miles. So, consider somebody who booked a Category 6, Package 1 package -- 120K miles + 7 hotel nights for 300K points. I think most people are looking at that as "6 nights + fifth night free at a category 6 = 6 * 30K = 180K for the hotel and the other 120K points for the 120K miles." But Marriott clearly thinks 120K miles are worth 288K Marriott points all by themselves (120K / 25K * 60K). In fact, using the old charts, to get 120K miles, you'd need 2 * the 50K award plus 2 * the 10K award = 2 * 140K points + 2 * 30K points = 340K points (!).
By that accounting, the hotel cert is nearly worthless.
Right. The value of airline miles, in Marriott's mind, is clearly defined (post-Auugst) at 60K points for 25K miles. So, consider somebody who booked a Category 6, Package 1 package -- 120K miles + 7 hotel nights for 300K points. I think most people are looking at that as "6 nights + fifth night free at a category 6 = 6 * 30K = 180K for the hotel and the other 120K points for the 120K miles." But Marriott clearly thinks 120K miles are worth 288K Marriott points all by themselves (120K / 25K * 60K). In fact, using the old charts, to get 120K miles, you'd need 2 * the 50K award plus 2 * the 10K award = 2 * 140K points + 2 * 30K points = 340K points (!).
By that accounting, the hotel cert is nearly worthless.
The TP has been the most valuable redemption in Marriott program, the SPG transfer makes it outsize value. Marriott has felt the pain and would definitely eliminate this very sweet spot once SPG is no more.
May 31, 2018, 2:49 pm
#3231
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MCO, YEG
Posts: 1,181
Yes, by that accounting, it would suggest that the hotel nights are nearly worthless, however, it seems doubtful that Marriott would like to make public that their hotel nights are nearly worthless. It would seem in their best interest to convince people that a Marriott point is really worth just about as much as an airline mile, given the right circumstance and that their hotel rooms actually have some value, so I can't see them drastically devaluing the certs. This is besides the fact that they would face considerable legal jeopardy for entering into a contract to provide a category 6 hotel room for 7 nights and then not giving you enough points to stay in any of their hotels for 7 nights. I don't know that they will necessarily give out 6 nights worth of points in the chosen (or equivalent) category, but I can't imagine their lawyers would go for unilaterally breaking the contract and only providing the equivalent of one or two nights in the same hotels. It seems like a recipe to spend a great deal of time in court over the next several years even if they did end up winning in the end.
The only thing holding me back from picking up a number of packages is the possibility that they will make me actually use the certificates. I am quite comfortable that if they exchange them for points, it will be at a level that will make it a good deal.
The only thing holding me back from picking up a number of packages is the possibility that they will make me actually use the certificates. I am quite comfortable that if they exchange them for points, it will be at a level that will make it a good deal.
May 31, 2018, 5:35 pm
#3232
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: MR PP, UA Silver, SW A-List, HH Diamond
Posts: 345
They absolutely can (and almost certainly will) justify giving a lower number of points. The airline miles have value too.
Currently, a redeposited Cat 1-5 cert gives 45K, and a redeposited Cat 6 cert gives 75K. The fact that 45K = 7.5K * 6 is likely a coincidence.
If you could redeposit a Cat 6 cert for 240K points, people would be continually buying Cat 6 packages, getting the miles, and redepositing the certs in order to get virtually limitless airline mile transfer at a 1:1 ratio.
Currently, a redeposited Cat 1-5 cert gives 45K, and a redeposited Cat 6 cert gives 75K. The fact that 45K = 7.5K * 6 is likely a coincidence.
If you could redeposit a Cat 6 cert for 240K points, people would be continually buying Cat 6 packages, getting the miles, and redepositing the certs in order to get virtually limitless airline mile transfer at a 1:1 ratio.
So this means there is a chance now for a ONE TIME game-able massive increase in value that will never again be seen. Obviously risky, since we know the lower bound on the points package is the poor rate you state. But that would not be remotely fair to people currently holding certificates (most of them attained by those not trying to game the merger).
May 31, 2018, 6:08 pm
#3233
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
But refunding at the same value as if you cancel it yourself is NOT RIGHT and NOT A FAIR TREATMENT to the members - it should be an exchange of certs to the category that the old category is mapped to and those who choose to use the certs to stay in future dates are not forced to book a bogus date now. Those who want to cancel later would get the fair amount of pts on however that might be under the new program.
May 31, 2018, 6:34 pm
#3234
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,324
I agree. I am not sure why they are making it way more difficult then necessary. One option which makes the most sense to me is just let existing certs be used with the new chart. Yes that will add slightly more value to the certs but that would make all members with the certs happy and impressed with the new MR. In another thread it was pointed out to me a possible cause to this problem is the new low and high season chart starting in 2019 and it may require even more points for the same category in the current chart. So it seems that MR obsession with the new "point based" certs and their higher point cost makes them think its a good plan to force cancel the existing certs at a low refund rate instead honoring what they already promised when it was redeemed.
May 31, 2018, 6:44 pm
#3235
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,361
I would assume that the refund would happen after the programs merged, and they would make the current travel packages no longer be attainable, so this could not be repeated as you state.
So this means there is a chance now for a ONE TIME game-able massive increase in value that will never again be seen. Obviously risky, since we know the lower bound on the points package is the poor rate you state. But that would not be remotely fair to people currently holding certificates (most of them attained by those not trying to game the merger).
So this means there is a chance now for a ONE TIME game-able massive increase in value that will never again be seen. Obviously risky, since we know the lower bound on the points package is the poor rate you state. But that would not be remotely fair to people currently holding certificates (most of them attained by those not trying to game the merger).
I doubt that there are actually very many unattached certificates in the first place. Outside of the FlyerTalk/blog community, I don't know how many people even know that these packages exist, and, furthermore, understand that you can get the miles first and keep the certificate in your account until you need it.
I, too, would like to see some guidance on this. I hope that they'll tell people what to expect before they lock people into either using the certificates or getting a point rebate.
They probably shouldn't have called the groupies in the new program "Categories." If they had called them "Levels," I don't think anybody would be making the argument you seem to be making.
May 31, 2018, 8:28 pm
#3236
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 107
Yes, by that accounting, it would suggest that the hotel nights are nearly worthless, however, it seems doubtful that Marriott would like to make public that their hotel nights are nearly worthless. It would seem in their best interest to convince people that a Marriott point is really worth just about as much as an airline mile, given the right circumstance and that their hotel rooms actually have some value, so I can't see them drastically devaluing the certs. This is besides the fact that they would face considerable legal jeopardy for entering into a contract to provide a category 6 hotel room for 7 nights and then not giving you enough points to stay in any of their hotels for 7 nights. I don't know that they will necessarily give out 6 nights worth of points in the chosen (or equivalent) category, but I can't imagine their lawyers would go for unilaterally breaking the contract and only providing the equivalent of one or two nights in the same hotels. It seems like a recipe to spend a great deal of time in court over the next several years even if they did end up winning in the end.
The only thing holding me back from picking up a number of packages is the possibility that they will make me actually use the certificates. I am quite comfortable that if they exchange them for points, it will be at a level that will make it a good deal.
The only thing holding me back from picking up a number of packages is the possibility that they will make me actually use the certificates. I am quite comfortable that if they exchange them for points, it will be at a level that will make it a good deal.
I wouldn't even look at the court angle, you have no chance there as T&C states Marriott can close the program and take all the points if they wanted to, so no sane lawyer will take your case.
Having said that, I hope they do provide some advance notice so members can attach their certificate if they end up going down that route.
May 31, 2018, 9:13 pm
#3237
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
That's not a particularly reasonable approach to this particular change, though. I don't expect to be able to book 7 nights at a Category 7 property under the new table using a 7-night Category 7 cert from the old table. They're not anywhere close to the same thing. They probably shouldn't have called the groupies in the new program "Categories." If they had called them "Levels," I don't think anybody would be making the argument you seem to be making.
Reasonable? Let's not start using smoke and mirrors by calling categories by any other name. Maybe you don't expect to book a category 7 hotel under the new table but that would be the easiest thing Marriott could do. We've all come to expect category changes each year so reorganizing the categories come August shouldn't be any different. Sure some will lose and some will win but that's always been the case each year with people who have certificates and a hotel moves up or down.
Marriott is going to have legal issues if they decide to just simply cash out everyone's certificates.
May 31, 2018, 10:53 pm
#3238
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,076
Anyone know, or speculate, what happens if you attach a TP certification to a booking for after Aug 1, and then decide to cancel after Aug 1?
Do you think Marriott would automatically cancel your TP certificate, and credit you whatever points the floater certificates were converted to?
Do you think Marriott would automatically cancel your TP certificate, and credit you whatever points the floater certificates were converted to?
Jun 1, 2018, 12:09 am
#3239
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,361
The more reasonable request, in my opinion, is for Marriott to convert them at the equivalent point level on the new chart, rounding up: Cat 1-5 becomes New Category 4; Cat 6 or Cat 7 becomes New Category 5; Cat 8, Cat 9, or Tier 1-3 becomes New Category 6, and Tier 4-5 becomes New Category 7. However, to reiterate, it doesn't look like they're going to do that.
Anyone know, or speculate, what happens if you attach a TP certification to a booking for after Aug 1, and then decide to cancel after Aug 1?
Do you think Marriott would automatically cancel your TP certificate, and credit you whatever points the floater certificates were converted to?
Do you think Marriott would automatically cancel your TP certificate, and credit you whatever points the floater certificates were converted to?
Jun 1, 2018, 8:56 am
#3240
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,324
It's not a matter of smoke and mirrors. It's a matter of trying to compress about 20 separate reward levels into seven/eight. By your logic, anyone who purchased a Tier 4-5 certificate would get exactly the same benefit as someone who purchased a Category 7 certificate for 210K fewer points. The fact is, the new Category 7 has no relationship whatsoever to the old Category 7.
The more reasonable request, in my opinion, is for Marriott to convert them at the equivalent point level on the new chart, rounding up: Cat 1-5 becomes New Category 4; Cat 6 or Cat 7 becomes New Category 5; Cat 8, Cat 9, or Tier 1-3 becomes New Category 6, and Tier 4-5 becomes New Category 7. However, to reiterate, it doesn't look like they're going to do that.
My speculation is that you're correct; they'd cancel the certificate and turn it into points.
The more reasonable request, in my opinion, is for Marriott to convert them at the equivalent point level on the new chart, rounding up: Cat 1-5 becomes New Category 4; Cat 6 or Cat 7 becomes New Category 5; Cat 8, Cat 9, or Tier 1-3 becomes New Category 6, and Tier 4-5 becomes New Category 7. However, to reiterate, it doesn't look like they're going to do that.
My speculation is that you're correct; they'd cancel the certificate and turn it into points.