MR defections
 

Was on the Starwood forum and a little suprised at how many fellow Flyertalkers who are/were MR elite members that have become so unhappy that they are/have defected to SPG.

I should add that I travel just enough most years to make it to the MR Silver level and have been happy with the overall MR benefits and promo's compared to the other chains. And having stayed at many brands, I prefer the overall Marriott experience over the others. That's why I keep going back, after all.

But is there really a growing level of frustration with the higher MR elite members that could turn a trickle into a flood? And is anyone at Marriott doing anything to answer these concerns?

I am one of those defectees if you could call me that since I already have 98 nights at Marriott this year. But lately I have been trying to stay at SPG properties (37 nights so far this year) if possible (they simply don't have as many as Marriott, specially in suburbs). But it seems as if Marriott isn't trying hard enough to keep my business. For instance, the free weekends don't do anything for me. I do not want to stay at a hotel if I don't want to. I'd rather be in my bed on the weekends. So this promotion is worthless to me, specially since its not even transferrable. At least then I could give them away to friends and family. The 500 (now 1,000) point online booking promo at SPG is great, in fact its more points than the points 2 paid nights would generate on average. To me points are much more valuable. Since points do not expire, maybe I will use them when I have a job which does not require extensive travel or maybe I'll use them on my honeymoon if I were to get married. SPG gives a 50% bonus to elites relative to Marriott's 30%. I have gotten upgrades more often at SPG properties than Marriott ones even though I have probably spent 10 times the number of nights at Marriott. I still get above average level of service at Marriotts and its consistent for the most part, but there are not many occassions at Marriotts that I would call outstanding. Maybe its that level of consistency thats getting to me - green, red and yellow rooms with green chairs (yikes). I have begun to enjoy the individuality of SPG hotels (although Renaissance hotels are fairly individual). Another reason to switch to SPG is that hotel points can be easily converted to airline miles that too with a 25% bonus when exchanged in larger numbers. Maybe I am just points/miles greedy, but it seems like Hilton and SPG understand that and Marriott does not. Its not like that I don't like Marriott. Marriott is still my back-up chain; though I have more nights year-to-date at the backup than the primary chain. A minor reason to avoid Marriott properties is the Neutrogena soap which makes the skin very dry. Renaissance however has great soap.

I have not defected yet, but I am seriously looking at taking the leap to Hilton or Starwood. I hope there are some MR marketing folks watching because the business is transferring and once they lose me, I am gone for good.

I assume that you are talking about this thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum74/HTML/004755.html

Anyhow, I defected... As a MR Platinum, I have yet to see a suite (via upgrade).. as a Starwood Platinum, it is rare when I do not see a suite.

But the real reasons I defected were the lousy reward availability at Marriott as well as the very generous Free Friday, Free Saturday Promos at Starwood. I was rarely able to book a Marriott Rewards room at the property I wanted, when I wanted, even when planning months in advance. With Starwood, I have always gotten an award booking the property I wanted, when I wanted (and I don't have to worry about paper certificates either)...And lets face it, there are no Category 1-4 hotels anywhere worth redeeming free weekend certificates... I wanted to use one in Manhattan, but no category 4 hotel. Starwood, on the other hand, allowed me to use my free weekends at almost all the Manhattan properties...

But Marriott still does beat Starwood hands down on the high speed internet access, and the *more reasonable* local telephone rates

[This message has been edited by uschpr (edited 08-17-2002).]

I dunno...

Is the grass greener on the other side?

I have 83 nights so far this year with Marriott. I have managed to find a Marriott or Fairfield etc in every city I have traveled to, with the exception of Brattleboro, VT and Portales, NM.,

In Brattleboro, I used my Priority Card with the Holiday Inn and they upgraded me to a jacuzzi suite :-). I didn't even have to ask. When I checked out, they had charged me double but they quickly credited my account.

There was a Hampton Inn in Portales...clean, comfortable...

I guess it becomes a question of expectations. I would like it if Marriott recognized me as a very frequent traveler, and offered goodies (more than just 2 cans of soda), but they don't. Would I switch as a result? I don't know.

I guess it boils down to convenience. I know them, they know me, it takes 1 call to book...it's easy to stay, and requires "action" to leave.

If I could defect, I would. I find that SPG has better overall customer service than Marriot. Unfortunately, my company has a strict preferred hotels policy and mandatory use of the corporate travel agent (so no booking bonuses) so I'm not able to take advantage of the offers that SPG and even HHonors has.

But of I had a choice, I wouldn't be staying with Marriot. It also rankles me that I have to *fax* my missing stay request and for almost every stay. SPG and HH has email/web submission, but for Marriot I have to fax international from SIN to AUS. Drives me nuts.

[This message has been edited by fimo (edited 08-17-2002).]

I defected from Marriott partly because my (very large) company dumped Marriott as a preferred hotel making it difficult to stay there. Starwood and Hilton are both preferred now, so I have made Platinum at Starwood and now stay at Hilton, with a smattering of Holiday Inns (so far so good) in the areas where I don't have access to either.

Ditto... we are no longer allowed to book Marriott - so I moved to Hilton and have been happy happy .. however I am still happily using my MR points - just cashed in a couple of 100K for a nice trip next spring...

SimonC

I've got no allegiance really. I split my stays equally among Hilton, Marriott and Starwood, with a few Hyatt's here and there if the rate is especially good for the property.

If you are thinking about defecting to SPG from Marriott but do not relish the thought of starting out with no status, I still have a few Gold membership referral cards that are yours for the asking (first-come/first-served). The card is yours to enjoy until February 2004. Plus, if you complete 5 stays by October 31, 2002, you also get 5,000 bonus starpoints. Also, if you book those stays on a SPG website by August 25, 2002, you get an additional 1,000 bonus starpoints per booking (regular 500 starpoints per Internet booking applies after 8/25). So, you end up with SPG Gold status with all its attended benefits including immediate room upgrades and late checkouts and potentially 10,000 bonus starpoints in your account. E-mail me with your name and snail mail address. However, if you think you might try to take advantage of the current 1,000 starpoints Internet booking bonus promotion, please so indicate and I will be only too glad to expedite your sign-up by e-mailing you the instructions for activation of your new card. Sorry, my fax machine is broken.

Short answer.....yes

I'd be curious to hear from Starwood as to whether they have noticed an influx of seasoned travelers at their properties. Likely no way for them to know, but it would be interesting if it is just a small number from this forum or if it is widespread departures. My gut tells me it isn't prevalent or we'd see Marriott stepping up the promo's, making sure points post and offering competitive benefits.

I have been Plat with Marriott since 1994 and I was booked into the Hyatt in SF by the corporate travel folks so I called Hyatt and asked if they would match my elite status. They asked me to fax a statement and, lo, I am now a Diamond member. I really am preferring Hyatt to Marriott, and with George Bush's recession hitting San Francisco very hard, I'm staying at the Park Hyatt for $102 on weekends and the Hyatt Regency for $114 during the week. I'm looking forward to earning enough points for a stay at the Park Hyatt Tokyo, a far better hotel than anything Marriott has to offer

Injecting politics into a debate of chains...perhaps if you'd choose a state of residence that embraces capitalism more...you'd be on the front end of recovery from the Clinton recession.

Darn and everyone else had told me it was Clinton's recession.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Sometimes its necessary to bring a state back to the real world.....


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AA member since 1981

Thought I would throw my $.02 in (I posted that I am defecting recently in the *wood board)...

Marriott has always treated me fine. I have plenty of points, spent a week with my wife in Kauai on Marriott, etc.

There are just a couple reasons I am changing:

-My wife and I have spent a couple free weekends at Westins and LOVE the Heavenly Bed/Bath combos as well as the rest of the amenities. I realized that I make my travel choice for our vacations together and if we are happier in those beds and rooms, then that is where I need to be.

-I have lurked on the *wood board for some time and it appears that suite upgrades occur fairly regularly for platinums in the SPG program. I have been plat with Marriott a couple years and have only gotten a suite twice; both at the San Mateo Marriott where I have spent an inordinate amount of time.

-Starwood makes it much easier to do business with them: no faxing for stays not captured, points posting quickly, no certs for award stay bookings, no capacity controls for awards (this is big).

-Finally, the Starwood Lurker represents a great innovation in customer service and is very deft in straddling the line b/w promoting his company and giving straight answers/solutions to issues that arise. The guy is even human and gives his own opinion on occasion that conflicts with corporate policy (this is rare, but is the kind of person I prefer to do business with).

Am I abandoning Marriott permanently? No. I am simply taking advantage of a status comp and seeing what life is like over there. I will still stay in Marriotts occasionaly, but until I notice some of the above qualities appearing at Marriott or if Starwood isn't nearly what I have read about; they won't be my first choice anymore.

Just thought I would share my rationale-
Kevin

ps- I apologize if there is a helpful Marriott Lurker that I haven't noticed; I don't check these boards too often, but the presence of the one from the other chain is unmistakable. IMHO, Marriott is missing the boat not having a similar, intimate link with an important cross-section of the traveling public

I am moving towards Hilton also. The lack of upgrades at Marriott properties is bothersome as a Platinum member.The wear and tear and often horrible beds at CY is also irritating. Also, the earning opportunity at HH blows Marriott away. Beside the obvious Double Dip, HH gives points for website bookings, Marriott does not. Hilton just ran a promom that gave 50,000 points for 4 paid nights. Marriott has done nothing so lucrative. In last two years I have stayed at Marriott 150+ nights and have about 250,000 points. I have stayed at Hilton 13 nights ( however 9 were in last 30 days) during the same period and have accrued 180,000 points. There is no comparison.

care to elaborate at all?????

Yes, there are a few of us lurker's here that do try to help and answer questions but we are only here in unofficially...and yes we agree there should be someone here officially

Unfortunately I'm not close enough to the discussions to know exactly what their current strategies are, but I do know it is quite often looked at

maybe I will get my platnium card by then... 3+ months at Plat and still waiting.

Here I come Starwood. Watch out.

These type of discussions are always one constant we can expect on FT. As a gold in HH, Starwood, Marriott (lowly silver with Hyatt) I am proof of the on-going dilemma, where-TODAY- is the best program to be a part of. I,probably,should settle with one for its highest status,but I generally flow with the current promotions and most "bang for my bucks" in a specific city. HH's CNTU has been the most recent best promo,so I've recently concentrated on them. In my personal experience Marriott (no upgrades)has the best overall selections of hotels, HH gives me the best upgrades and I like Starwood's Westins (some upgrades,but I don't trust their other brands). So the debate continues...

Several things have prompted us to switch from Marriott as our choice of hotel brand to the Hilton brand.

First it was the mattresses. Two days on the 4" mattress and I'm in pain.

Other things included the failure to get points for Marriott timeshare referrals that resulted in purchases, lack of follow through on a "walk" situation and a snooty front desk clerk. Irritations were piling up and wore our loyalty thin enough to get a couple HHonors cards.

Since we're doing comparisons we should probably look into the Starwood and Hyatt programs.

Originally posted by bnaboy:

Keep in mind, though, that HH points are worth only 20% of Starwood's.

SPN Lifer - please explain. I am not familiar with Starwood program and your comment has raised my interest.

Thanks

I manage to make Marriott Platinum and Gold on Starwood and Hilton but NOTHING compares to Hyatt imho. They don't have as many hotels as Marriott or Starwood, but they have some real gems and both Hyatt corporate as well as most individual hotels treat me incredibly well, and consistently.

I know on the face of it, Hyatt's program is harder to earn pts. in and not as flexible as Marriott or certainly Starwood, but after staying in suites at the Hyatt in Kauai, Maui, Scottsdale, Park Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Shanghai all for free, I really try and stick with Hyatt. And if you work the promos right, its a very rich program.

I was primarily thinking of the airline mileage equivalent via "Point Exchange," as Hilton calls it. The ratio of points to miles on most airlines is 1:1 for Starwood but 5:1 for Hilton. In other words, a Hilton point is worth approximately 20% of a Starwood point. (I recognize, however, that you can do better redeeming an airline award directly with Hilton, so that is a gross oversimplification.)

There is nothing inherently good or bad about a "strong" or "weak" hotel point "currency." It's just something to be aware of.

If you look at the number of points required for free hotel nights, except at the bottom end, the ratio is not as low as 20%, depending on what award you want. More like 30%, narrowing at the high end properties:

http://www.starwood.com/preferredgue...rd_search.html

http://www.hilton.com/en/hhonors/rew...jhtml#standard

So it depends how you plan to spend your points.

I have minimal hotel stay experience compared to you. The Starwood board explains all of this much better than I could.

There is a particularly lucrative "Gold Referral" program going on now. If you can get referred and stay 5 times by the end of October, you'd get a 5K bonus, plus 2.5K for booking the five stays online, plus 3 points (includes 50% Gold bonus) per dollar spent.

Check it out on the Starwood forum, searching for "Gold referral."

As a former Diamond at Hyatt and now only a Plat.. I have to agree with KV99.. When I was living in LA and flying bi weekly to Northern VA before moving here, I stayed at Hyatts and was treated like a King almost all the time.

Unfortunately Hyatts are just not in the places I travel any more. There are not enough of them, maybe when Hawthorn Suites gets in the program things will change, but as of today.. I just can't find them in enough locations. Pure and simple.. thats the only reason I have no requalified as Diamond on the Hyatt program. As for your comment on the promos.. you are so right..

I guess I am like jabez, I'm Gold with Marriott (just missed renewing Platinum last year), Diamond with Hilton, and Platinum with Starwood. I tend to follow the offers - just took advantage of the 4 stays 50,000 points for Hilton, and next week booking Marriott for the free weekend. But, if I had to choose only one program, I would have to go with Hilton - I almost always get upgrades and being able to earn both points and miles is very nice.

After three years as Platinum with Marriott, I've given up for the greener pastures of Starwood and Hyatt.

I always received top-flight treatment at the Marriott I visited most frequently, but the other didn't seem to give a rat's you-know-what about Platinum level membership.

While Marriott certainly provides some of most consistent lodging and service out there, the top tier service pales in comparison to Hyatt and Starwood when it comes to amenities, upgrades, and personalized service.

Add me to the list of disillusioned Plats. I have been a plat for 3 years and I have moved on to Starwood, & Hilton.

Adios.

I think I've responded before, but I'm a Marriott Platinum for three years who moved to Starwood.. They're ok (great customer service, Starwood Lurker is what all other customer service should try to be), but I found better hotel selection at Hilton. Both Starwood and Hilton comped me Platinum and Diamond and I in return easily made the top tiers in both.. while my Marriott Platinum card stays snugly on my desk...

I have thrown most of my business this year to Hilton and Starwood! Primary reason, Ease of use on Starwood. I needed a place for my fiance and her parents to stay on a rood trip from ATL to SDF, a last minute thing. MR couldn't or wouldn't help. No time to create certs and ship them. Starwood was handled with one phone call. It went off without a hitch. was a nice place too by all accounts. Starwood is just easier to deal with at redemption time and they act like they value my business.

Dittos here. I've stayed 200 nites at Marriott over the past 365 (exactly), but have spent the last three weeks at Hilton & SPG properties. Hilton, for the CNTU promo. SPG because I just think it's the best program for my needs: lotso properties in France & Italy. No stupid coupons for reward stays. No Category limits on weekend promos. . . and NO ROSE PICTURES on EVERY WALL!

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AA Platinum,1MM, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Starwood Platinum