Eroding Competitiveness: a little venting
 

I have been extremely loyal to Marriott over the years. And why not? I have been all over the world, using points to stay at some fine Marriotts. I used to travel 80% of the time and earning points was easy.

Over the last few years, my business travel has diminished to zero, and most of my points are earned through my credit card and occasional stays.

Until recently, if I was going to book a vacation or weekend getaway, I really didn’t look much further than booking a Marriott. But my disposable $ for vacations is not unlimited.

For weekend getaways, we would go into San Francisco, and use the BOGO at the Stanford Court or one of the other city Marriotts. Great hotels, but the BOGOs are gone. Now I shop for the best rates across all 4-5 star hotels.

My spouse has a business meeting coming up in the Phoenix area in Sept. and we decided to add on a couple of days of R&R. Of course I checked the Marriott resorts. This is low season and yet Camelback and Desert Ridge have rates over $300 a night.

So what did I do? I booked The Four Seasons Troon through a preferred Four Seasons travel agent for $234 a night, including Daily full American breakfast for two, served through In-Room Dining or in the hotel restaurant (including buffets), a food and beverage credit of $100 once during stay, an Upgrade of one category, based on availability at time of check-in (Within a day of making this reservation, I had a confirmed two category upgrade to a Premier King Casita), plus a $100 resort credit per stay.

All that, and I have no status with Four Seasons. Now I know that Marriott has little influence over the rates of an individual hotel, but had I gone with the Marriotts, I might get an upgrade or I might not. Certainly no breakfast.

So as much as I like the points, my leisure dollars are migrating. Perhaps, I’m not really the type of customer Marriott want to focus on. But if I am, Marriott needs to wake up and understand that the points alone don’t cut it anymore. And while you’re working on a fix for the BOGO, I have been discovering the wonders of Four Seasons hotels.;)

Wow...that's a sweet Four Seasons offer!! ^

I wouldn't necessarily blame other brands for not having that same deal, but I would probably ditch any of my "status" brands for that particular offer.

Agree that Marriott makes it tough on the leisure traveler with their withholding of benefits at resorts and on weekends. That's a big reason I moved most of my business stays to Starwood - I can't always take my vacations to international cities where Marriott has a non-resort hotel with a 7-day concierge lounge. When I have, I've enjoyed some nice Marriotts, but I also want the flexibility to do U.S./Canada weekend getaways and resort destinations too. Starwood now gives me this.

The problem with moving "loyalty" to Four Seasons is that there aren't many of them and most of them (sadly) don't have this same kind of deal. If you're mainly a credit card guy, take a look at HHonors. If you're one who uses credit cards and can also put together 21-25 hotel stays per year, look at Starwood.

Exactly
 

.. that is what I have said in a previous thread. There just doesn't seem to be anything "special" on offer, particularly for Plats. In the UK (not sure about internationally) we have another fairly unexciting promotion whereby you get 20% off restaurant spend. Doesn't include room service or the bar. Just uninspiring and probably cheaper to just stay on DB&B anyway.

I keep saying that Marriott should think up some good offers for Plats in place of EEOs. Perhaps free dinner or some good %age discounts. At the moment there is nothing special.

Well Michelle (not the OP) from Marriott Insider eludes that there are new benefits coming. I'm not holding my breath.

FWIW, 95% of my stays are at international properties and all my stays are leisure MOM. At PP and LT Plat I'm staying with Marriott for the time being as bennies overseas properties are very nice.

As far as eroding competitiveness; that is a broad assertion based on one sample. But, I too would go for the Four Seasons offer as that's a no brainer.

As a result of the OP's experience I decided to check the Four Seasons here in Vail since I have to do 1 night prior to my early flight back to my Fairfax home at the end of July. Unfortunately nowhere near the OP's experience; Four Season's best rate is $430, where my current reservation at Vail Marriott is $149. In this case I guess I would surmise that either Four Seasons competitiveness is eroding or Marriott competitiveness is improving. Neither of which is a valid statement considering the sample size.

I think we all know the 4S $234 rate is an outlier - a unique opportunity that most of us would jump on if it fit our travel plans, regardless of our satisfaction level with our preferred mass-market chain.

The other thing is that whenever I'm going to somewhere in an off-peak season (like PHX at the end of the summer), I see stuff all over the board - especially if I'm booking the trip a few months in advance. Some hotels load crazy-low rates well in advance; others don't see to load them until a few weeks in advance.

I also see this when we travel over Christmas or Thanksgiving to cities where those are the lowest-demand weeks possible. One mainline Marriott/Westin/Hilton type hotel will be showing $89/nt. The one next door will be showing normal weekday corp rates of $199/nt. Then, two months later, the latter realizes it's a holiday and also drops to $89/nt. (I run into this in Minneapolis often. There, the area Marriotts tend to load Christmas rates earlier in the year than the Starwoods.)

So it's possible that Camelbak has a special event that weekend and is genuinely close to selling out at high rates. But it's also possible that they simply haven't bothered loading promotional rates for that weekend yet. I'd say "keep looking", but why bother when you can go check out a 4S at a sweet rate? @:-)

I dont think Starwood has anything better when it comes to resort fees and clubs at resorts. I am going to PHX at Thanksgiving and first 2 nights at the Phoenician before going to JW Marriott. They both have rediculus Resort fees and no access to club. However, I can get $1000 in Marriott checks for 135000 points so I can use points to pay resort fees at Marriott. I am not aware of Starwood having Checks for points. Also in Feb, I am going to Maui and splitting time with Marriot and Sheraton. Again, no club at both but both have resort fees. Points can be used for checks to pay resort fee for Marriott, Cash for Starwood.
People often think the grass is greener, but take a look. I use to be a huge Starwood fan, but I feel the points the last few years have greatly devalued. Sorry, that is another argument.

Elite recognition at Marriott brands is probably the worst and at its lowest point ever.

At most of the discounted Marriott brands, elite recognition is 200 points or a bag of doritos. It is pretty embarrassing.

All Marriott branded hotels outside of the US are far better than their domestic brethren when it comes to elite recognition and benefits. However, international Hiltons, for example are even better than international Marriotts. As a Gold at Hilton, i get benefits and recognition at international Hilton properties that are well beyond Marriott Platinum benefits anywhere in the World. There are some easy (and maybe even free) things Marriott could do to dramatically improve their Platinum benefits.

1.) Don't make me wait in line. When i walk in the door, have someone there to hand my key to me so i can go to my room. You've got my credit card on file, you can charge it. If you want me to call ahead fine. But i don't enjoy idle chatter with the front desk people or waiting for someone to resolve their mini bar charges with the front desk.

2.) Pick me up at the airport and hand me my key. Forget about platinum benefits, I'll PAY you to have a driver pick me up at the airport with my key in his/her hand. Chances are i just flew anywhere between 26 to 8 hours to get here imprisoned in an aluminum tube, waiting in immigration lines and i don't feel like waiting any more.

3.) Give me an early check-in if the room is available. I can't tell you how many times hotel staff fight with me on early check-in. 90% of the time they grant it on arrival, but staring at my Platinum status on the reservation they will say "We can't say or give you early check-in until you arrive here, blah blah blah." If i am within 2 hours of arriving at the hotel, block me a room or waitlist me to grab a room early

4.) Breakfast on the weekends. Not having it free for Plats is a joke. Ask for it and you will be sneered at. Hilton is virtually 100% there for me on breakfast--especially in full service properties--and I am a gold there. Courtyards are a joke. Old crappy cheap rooms and furniture that are priced at a premium and they still charge you for the bowl of cereal you would get for free at the Holiday Inn Express which is half the room rate.

Marriott is not entitled to my business. I started staying at Hiltons because most Marriotts are incredibly arrogant and ignore Platinums. I used to be 100% Marriott. Marriott, you've got to earn my business and you can do a lot more at low to no cost if you just tried harder.

I couldn't have said this better myself. I received an offer mid-Sept to stay 20 more nights through the end of the year to retain my Platinum status, because I had only accrued 20-something nights up to that point. I didn't only have 20-odd nights because I was traveling less - I had 20-odd nights because I was staying elsewhere. I have been Plat for almost 10 years, which seems significant enough to me, but maybe not based on the threads that try to guess the number of Plats staying on an average night. Each time I checked-in during this promotional period, I kept questioning whether or not it was worth it to continue towards the 20 nights. I have earned Diamond status with Hyatt (and if you hit their board, you'll hear complaints of their eroding benefits, as well), Hilton Gold and Starwood Gold this year. By far, Marriott offers me the last bang for my status buck....even with lower tiered status at two of the three other chains.

It wasn't that long ago that when staying at second-tier properties like CY or SHS, that you would have a bottle of water and a snack waiting for you in your pre-assigned room. I liked that just fine. Now that one has the option to choose 200 points or "an item from the market," that benefit, for me, is diminished. Usually, after traveling, I'd like a bottle of water. I could mostly care less about the snack, but it was a nice perk. At my last stay at the CY Spokane, I was told I could have "an item from the market" or the 200 points. First of all, let's face it, 200 points is the closest to nothing one could offer. I don't know that I value 200 points to be a dollar. Sometimes, I have been able to talk the front desk into allowing me a water and a bag of M&Ms, or such - but, no, this night manager insisted I was only entitled to one item, and when I chose the bottle of water, she questioned why I didn't choose something more expensive, like a beer or bottle of wine. Because I want the water - and the same bottle of water will be $3-4 in the room. Of course, the previous night, I had stayed at a Hilton Garden Inn - again, with a lower tier of status - and was offered two bottles of water upon check-in, plus breakfast or a $$ credit in their market.

Someone at Marriott might want to consider that they could lose very loyal customers by ticking them off over simple - and cheap things, like a bottle of water and breakfast at a Courtyard. I do have my Platinum status for another year, but I doubt I will use it much. Then, they'll probably offer me another deal at the end of next year, which I will then have to decide if it is worth my time and effort again.

They don't, but to argue their side a bit: they'd say that the ability to exchange Starpoints for so many different airlines is essentially the same thing.

I look at both the Marriott Cheques and Starwood mileage conversions as a safety valve for someone sitting on millions of points and no possible way to use them all as award stays. Both of them involve about a 50% hit in value vs. a well-optimized award stay, but they both fill a need for some people. The last thing either chain wants is for an ultra-road-warrior to say "These points are now worthless to me."

Starwood also has those on-property awards...a few thousand points for a massage or whatnot.

Sometimes it's the little things that make a difference. I just started trying out Hilton as a new Gold (which has lower qualification requirements than Gold at Marriott), and so far have been much more impressed.

Even though it's not a published benefit (I believe at one point years ago it may have been), on my two recent stays at full service properties, there have been two bottles of water (and good water-- once Fiji, once Acqua Panna) waiting for me in my room with a personalized note welcoming me. I have never received that at a FS Marriott in the U.S.

The 1000 dollar cheques for 135000 points can be a great deal. Consider I just stayed at the JW Marriott Dessert Ridge for 99 dollars a night with a 25 dollar resort fee for 5 nights. Total about 540 including Fees and Tax.
To stay on points it would be 120000 point and I would need to pay 125 dollars in resort fees. So I used 15000 point more to get the checks.
After paying for the room, I had over 500 dollars to pay for resort fees, Golf, Drinks, Meals…. In addition, I get points for the charges and credit for the nights.

FWIW, Four Seasons does not have status or a rewards program. When Ritz-Carlton rolled out their rewards program, I recall an interview with a senior leader from FS asking them if they would respond in the same manner.

This person essentially said that they treat all of their guests like "top tier" reward members, and have no need for such a program.

From my own experience, I tend to agree with that.

In case you missed the other thread, the 1000 dollar cheque reward for 135k points is being eliminated after 12/31/12, so make sure you redeem by then if you want to take advantage of this reward. Another platinum benefit bites the dust.

I stayed at a CY in VA Beach Ocean Front this week for work. Place was empty.

Profile states: High floor, extra feather pillows.

Put on second floor. Had to ask for the pillows. I honestly don't make a big deal about room selection/upgrades when I travel alone. My thoughts are that the universe has allotted me fixed number of those. I will use them when traveling with my wife/family. :D SO, I probably could have moved, but didn't.

Asked for a 1:00pm late checkout. Got it with no problem. That morning had to see a client then a conference call before heading to airport. Was conducting the call in my room when (at 11:20-before standard checkout) BANG BANG BANG on the door. Housekeeping wanted in. I had a DND on the door. BANG BANG again. Finally I had to mute and tell them I was still in the room. I mentioned THAT to the front desk.

All in all, aside from the arrival points, it was like I had no status at all. I know its only a CY, but COME ON. Its LOW season at the beach. I know you were occupancy was light. (Had a Bistro Burger in the cafe one night-also left a lot to be desired.)

That sounds like the perfect stay where you should call customer care to report on the property. Hotels are usually responsive when a platinum member complains to customer care.