FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Marriott | Marriott Bonvoy (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy-766/)
-   -   St Regis San Francisco 2008 on [Master Thread] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/606824-st-regis-san-francisco-2008-master-thread.html)

JFKSFOLAX_friend Sep 18, 10 4:15 pm


Originally Posted by peteropny (Post 14697046)
I like the property itself - probably would prefer it to any SPG or Hyatt property in SF. But the continued shenanigans on the upgrade issue including myself last Sept will assure the property that it will never see a revenue stay from me.

Have you let anyone at Starwood or the property itself know about your decision?

IncyWincy Sep 19, 10 10:10 am


Originally Posted by andrewpartyman (Post 14684633)
Not so much a lie as not telling the whole truth? That is a lie. Try that one in court.

Agree. In fact, lies are lies, whether something is partially true or entirely false. to mislead is as bad as to lie.

What is even more disturbing is Lurker's statement that not telling the whole truth is not a so much a lie, and seems fine with it.

IncyWincy Sep 19, 10 10:18 am


Originally Posted by taipeiflyer (Post 14692685)
frankly, i am getting so sick and tired of all the excuses being used to deny room upgrades. next time i get one of those sorry-... excuses, i am going to go back to my room, and continue to book all of the remaining upgradeable suites for the night in question until it says i cannot book any more. i will then go back downstairs and let them know that i was able to "help their system catch up. after all, i would hate to see another customer book a suite only to arrive at the hotel and be told there are none left." and they can't try and charge me for the booked suites, because how can you charge me for something you dont have? in fact, they should be thankful that they dont have to deal with angry guests who are thinking they are booking suites when in fact none exist. enough is enough with spg.

Cannot agree more.

In fact, with a hotel like this, Plats should refrain from giving them revenue stays and only stay there on awards. This gives them what they deserve.

The reason why they are in Starwood, presumably is to benefit from being in a chain. There are pros and cons, as always. One of the biggest pros is to partake in the pool of frequent travellers and gain their loyalty, esp the elites.

However, with this kind of behaviour, this hotel is alienating the elites, as only Plats are entitled to suite upgrades, and getting bad press. What for?

IncyWincy Sep 19, 10 10:26 am


Originally Posted by JFKSFOLAX_friend (Post 14694482)
PLEASE file a Customer Service complaint against the hotel. Give the dates you stayed there (and confirmation number if you have it handy) and indicated that spg.com showed many better room types. At a minimum, they will know that Platinum SPG members ARE checking spg.com. Even if you get nothing out of it, the file does go to the GM and they will have to research it. It will let them know that we are paying attention.

It will take two seconds. Either call or simply send an email to customer care. Just give the facts and say that you would like to open a "Customer Care File." Thank you.

800-328-6242
[email protected]

Agree that it would be good to contact Customer Service although as I said above I found Lurker's statement disturbing. Hopefully the Lurkers and CS do not degenerate into what this hotel is like.

It is difficult to imagine that the problem is really with the Front Desk as if they were out on a limb to deny upgrades. They have no axe to grind. Indeed, withholding upgrades leaves them with disgruntled/angry customers which cannot be pleasant. Thus I tend to think that there are clear and firm instructions from above and that the GM is well aware of the sneaky policy, if not the instigator.

Starwood Lurker Sep 20, 10 9:56 am


Originally Posted by IncyWincy (Post 14706591)
Agree. In fact, lies are lies, whether something is partially true or entirely false. to mislead is as bad as to lie.

What is even more disturbing is Lurker's statement that not telling the whole truth is not a so much a lie, and seems fine with it.


Originally Posted by IncyWincy (Post 14706800)
Agree that it would be good to contact Customer Service although as I said above I found Lurker's statement disturbing. Hopefully the Lurkers and CS do not degenerate into what this hotel is like...

So, I went back and re-read what I wrote and I find no endorsement of this practice. In fact, my personal belief is that when one is faced with an embarrassing situation, it is just better to come clean, apologize, and move on.

But, a question for you...for those who come here and give only their side of the story...what do we call them? Personally, I don't call them liars, but they are, after all, not telling the whole truth because that would involve giving some information up that doesn't make their case quite as egregious otherwise.

The point is this...it is just part of the human condition and it happens all of the time in every imaginable instance. But, it certainly is not an advisable path to take.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

JFKSFOLAX_friend Sep 20, 10 11:27 am


Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker (Post 14721212)
So, I went back and re-read what I wrote and I find no endorsement of this practice. In fact, my personal belief is that when one is faced with an embarrassing situation, it is just better to come clean, apologize, and move on.

I just think people are frustrated with properties that take the good with SPG (loyal and robust customer base, access to spg.com reservation engine, etc.) but don't want to play by the rules when it comes to upgrades and other benefits.

The problem is, there is no transparency. And, if a property develops a reputation, then guests get defensive/assume they are being hosed.

While maybe 100% of the stories on here aren't true (possibly), certainly 100% aren't false. And with the lack of transparency, it doesn't help when the hotel backtracks/changes its story.

FD1971 Sep 20, 10 1:08 pm

Once again, do not expect award rooms or upgrades, if the hotel expects to be fully booked. As pointed out numerous times already, some hotels also sell all room categories, although they only have premium rooms and/or suites available. CRS availability at $ 400 still looks better than $ 1400 and somebody will be upgraded anyway.

Good, old KLM logic, actually we sell any seat at any price, as long as we can get some revenue. We might jeopardize some $$$, but prefer hard cash…


Originally Posted by tommy777 (Post 14665829)
Funny, I was thinking the same thing.. I would love to hear some examples, because I sure haven't seen a Westin room or suite even getting close to the St. Regis San Fran.

+1, sounds more like a not too creative rant by somebody, who did expect too much and is not able to appreciate certain, more subtle, aspects of real upscale hotel rooms. Park Hyatt Milan and Zurich have the same problem, because people do not see the cost of real wood or rare marble…


Originally Posted by tommy777 (Post 14665842)
Well, it's now mid September and I still have all 4 of my Diamond upgrades in my account... Availability is controlled by the Hyatt properties and it usually stinks.

Availability is normally very good, however certainly more limited during high demand periods.


Originally Posted by peteropny (Post 14697046)
… - as a Diamond, I almost always received a suite for every stay even though suite upgrades are not part of Hyatt's T&Cs. Since the changeover to LM from PH, I haven't received such upgrades regularly but at rates of 1/3 of the typical St R rate, I can live with it. If the St R can demonstrate a record of honoring the Suite upgrades per SPG's T&Cs, I may reconsider.

Considering that the Park San Francisco had more than 5 dozen suites and upgraded Diamonds frequently, I can confirm the very nice treatment there. IIRC, I was almost always upgraded to a suite as well, albeit some of them were in the 600 sqft. range with a small bedroom. Somehow shocking to read about your low batting percentage after the changeover…

ramalama8 Sep 20, 10 1:36 pm


Originally Posted by FD1971 (Post 14723486)
Once again, do not expect award rooms or upgrades, if the hotel expects to be fully booked.

I think the emphasized portion (emphasis added) of your statement is what gets people worked up - SPG's terms and conditions mention nothing about hotels being able to hold back upgrades if they expect to sell out. The way I read it, if, at check-in, it's not yet been reserved by an actual customer, the room/eligible suite should be available for an upgrade.

JFKSFOLAX_friend Sep 20, 10 1:41 pm


Originally Posted by ramalama8 (Post 14723863)
I think the emphasized portion (emphasis added) of your statement is what gets people worked up - SPG's terms and conditions mention nothing about hotels being able to hold back upgrades if they expect to sell out. The way I read it, if, at check-in, it's not yet been reserved by an actual customer, the room/eligible suite should be available for an upgrade.

B.I.N.G.O.

allset2travel Sep 20, 10 3:24 pm


Originally Posted by ramalama8 (Post 14723863)
I think the emphasized portion (emphasis added) of your statement is what gets people worked up - SPG's terms and conditions mention nothing about hotels being able to hold back upgrades if they expect to sell out. The way I read it, if, at check-in, it's not yet been reserved by an actual customer, the room/eligible suite should be available for an upgrade.

Well said.

After reading many more recent posts, I've decided to book on an award stay so that I can post my experience here. I will also be monitoring availability of suites online. Awaiting to see if front desk CSR would use the code word: expects all suites to be fully booked.

OT: the W one block away treats elites the same way.

JFKSFOLAX_friend Sep 20, 10 3:44 pm


Originally Posted by allset2travel (Post 14725419)
OT: the W one block away treats elites the same way.

When you say "treats elites the same way," do you mean they withhold upgrades in anticipation of selling the room? Haven't most of the reviews on here said that the W is good with upgrades?

IncyWincy Sep 20, 10 6:39 pm


Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker (Post 14721212)
So, I went back and re-read what I wrote and I find no endorsement of this practice. In fact, my personal belief is that when one is faced with an embarrassing situation, it is just better to come clean, apologize, and move on.

But, a question for you...for those who come here and give only their side of the story...what do we call them? Personally, I don't call them liars, but they are, after all, not telling the whole truth because that would involve giving some information up that doesn't make their case quite as egregious otherwise.

The point is this...it is just part of the human condition and it happens all of the time in every imaginable instance. But, it certainly is not an advisable path to take.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

Good to hear from you on this Lurker.

What I found disturbing, as already explained above, was that you tried to draw a distinction between a lie and not telling the whole truth. Whether that was an attempt to somehow exonerate the hotel is a matter for readers to judge.


I agree in principle with your statement (see above) that when faced with an "embarrassing situation", one should come clean and apologise. The "embarrassing situation" you were referring to above must have been a nice euphemism for being exposed for lying as you followed up with coming clean etc. What is also necessary is for the person/company caught lying to take remedial action to make good the default. Simply coming clean and apologising is only the first step and is insufficient without rectifying the breach.

Indeed, honesty, apologising for errors/lies and making good default are basic requirements for decency, whether of human beings or corporations.

In any case I hope that your statement of your "personal belief" (to come clean and apologise when faced with such an embarrassing situation) by no means indicates that it is not SPG corporate policy but purely your own.

As for your question regarding people telling "only their side of the story" - the point is not "telling one's side of the story" but whether one is lying (which covers distortions). Different opinions are fine, but lies and distortions (telling half the truth or withholding material parts of the truth thereby giving a misleading picture) are not. The same rule applies to all.

FD1971 Sep 21, 10 1:43 am


Originally Posted by ramalama8 (Post 14723863)
I think the emphasized portion (emphasis added) of your statement is what gets people worked up - SPG's terms and conditions mention nothing about hotels being able to hold back upgrades if they expect to sell out. The way I read it, if, at check-in, it's not yet been reserved by an actual customer, the room/eligible suite should be available for an upgrade.

Of course, it gets people worked up..., but expecting 'reality' probably helps them to cool down again... ;)

Do you honestly believe the marketing blabla of a multinational co-operation based in the US in the year 2010? :rolleyes:

Expect the guaranteed perks...and complain if they were not granted, however never ever expect to get something for free which could have been sold ten minutes later...

taipeiflyer Sep 21, 10 6:55 am


Originally Posted by FD1971 (Post 14731400)
Of course, it gets people worked up..., but expecting 'reality' probably helps them to cool down again... ;)

Do you honestly believe the marketing blabla of a multinational co-operation based in the US in the year 2010? :rolleyes:

Expect the guaranteed perks...and complain if they were not granted, however never ever expect to get something for free which could have been sold ten minutes later...

sorry, but i dont agree with your take at all. available suite upgrades ARE A GUARANTEED PERK! if they want to give their properties more leeway, than dont say GUARANTEED!!! or do like hyatt, and offer suite upgrade vouchers. at first, i thought hyatts system was stupid, but considering how evasive SPG properties are (especally the cat 5-6 properties), i have come to believe that hyatt's system is better. it helps manage expectations, and prevents properties from giving the runaround. but dont say it is a guaranteed perk EXCEPT if we expect to sell the room later, because that will just give the properties another opportunity to deny a GUARANTEED PERK of spg platinum.

JFKSFOLAX_friend Sep 21, 10 9:36 am


Originally Posted by taipeiflyer (Post 14733062)
sorry, but i dont agree with your take at all. available suite upgrades ARE A GUARANTEED PERK!

No reason to get worked up. Simply point the uneducated to https://www.starwoodhotels.com/prefe...gram_tour.html.

Read the text under Platinum Preferred Guest. It's right there in black and white.

Yes, upgrades to the best available room at check-in (including standard suites), are part of the program. It's not debatable.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:48 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.