Westin St. Francis, San Francisco [Master Thread]
#271
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At the minimum, the Westin St. Francis is subject to the oversight by Starwood.
Also - as you have said - SPG is not being sued, the hotel is being sued.
And allow me to refresh your memory of SPG's T&Cs related to cancellation of membership:
12.2.b. Cancelling by Starwood. Starwood may cancel an SPG Member's accumulated Starpoints, suspend SPG Program benefits, suspend Elite Preferred Guest Membership Status, SPG Lifetime Gold Status and SPG Lifetime Platinum Status, or cancel an SPG Member's account at any time with immediate effect and without written notice, for any reason and in Starwood's sole discretion including, without limitation, if Starwood believes the SPG Member has:
- i. Acted in a manner inconsistent with applicable laws, regulations, ordinances;
- ii. Failed to pay any hotel bill when due to Starwood or an SPG Participating Hotel or SPG Partner Hotel or failed to fulfill a Vistana Signature Experiences financial obligation;
- iii. Acted in an inappropriate, fraudulent, abusive or hostile manner;
- iv. Breached or violated any of these SPG Program Terms or the Website Terms of Use;
- v. Fraudulently claimed to qualify as an SPG Pro Professional Meeting Planner, SPG Pro Travel Professional or SPG Pro Executive Assistant or to be eligible to earn any of the benefits offered to an SPG Pro Professional Meeting Planner, SPG Pro Travel Professional or SPG Pro Executive Assistant pursuant to the SPG Program; or
- vi. Engaged in any misconduct or wrongdoing in connection with the SPG Program including, without limitation, with respect to Starpoints, Eligible Stays, Eligible Nights, SPG Award usage, SPG Promotion Reward usage, or any other SPG Member benefits.
Small Claims is definitely an overkill in this situation. However, if this ultimate ends up in court, and the court finds in favor of OP, SPG will be prohibited from taking any negative actions against OP due to the incident (per SPG's own T&Cs, the membership can't be cancelled by SPG without cause).
I know it sounds absurb. But this is the best way to protect OP. Doing the right thing does not always mean right.
#272
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I would personally view chargeback as a last resort. The property does have the ability to involve corporate fraud, which can result in adverse action against the guest's program account. I'm not aware of any instances of this occurring with SPG, but there was a thread earlier this year in the Hilton forum about a guest who had his account closed and points forfeited due to a credit card related misunderstanding with a property.
#273
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I was talking about experiences with any hotel, not just the Starwood hotels, so mea Culpa. As a lifetime Plat, I would not be asking is it free. Agree with you on that.
#274
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After communicating with SPG and getting nowhere, it would be prudent for the OP to file a compliant with the California State Attorney General: https://oag.ca.gov/
California is a very consumer-friendly state, and the laws here tend to err on the side of the consumer in most instances. Indicating to the Westin St Francis that such a complaint has been filed may encourage reconciliation.
California is a very consumer-friendly state, and the laws here tend to err on the side of the consumer in most instances. Indicating to the Westin St Francis that such a complaint has been filed may encourage reconciliation.
#276
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
I too must echo the sentiment that the notion that if the FDC didn't mention the upgrade was free then you shouldn't assume it was free. That is completely inapposite to the tenor of elite participation in loyalty programs. My experience has always been that if an upgrade is not complimentary, the FDC tells you the new price. Incidentally, the Westin St. Francis is an otherwise excellent hotel with a great staff. I'm surprised that they are acting this way. Assuming the OPs version is accurate, I have to believe that's it's just one sketchy FDC.
As posted elsewhere, I was once charged a fee. I resolved that in a hurry.
Cheers,
#277
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I too must echo the sentiment that the notion that if the FDC didn't mention the upgrade was free then you shouldn't assume it was free. That is completely inapposite to the tenor of elite participation in loyalty programs. My experience has always been that if an upgrade is not complimentary, the FDC tells you the new price. Incidentally, the Westin St. Francis is an otherwise excellent hotel with a great staff. I'm surprised that they are acting this way. Assuming the OPs version is accurate, I have to believe that's it's just one sketchy FDC.
Of course, our OP could be mistaken and the FDC did mention a price...and the OP either forgot, or the price was told to a spouse or partner, and the OP doesn’t want to pay for it after the fact. That’s possible. But also possible is a FDC who was supposed to charge more for the suite upgrade but who didn’t mention it. In the latter case, the hotel has to eat it...
#278
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And then you agree with me anyway
And we all know that
cancel an SPG Member's account at any time with immediate effect and without written notice, for any reason and in Starwood's sole discretion
Last edited by CPRich; Dec 22, 2017 at 2:08 pm
#279
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So if it's not free, the FDC always tells you there's a charge, but if the FDC doesn't tell you, you shoulldn't assume it's free? Huh?
#280
Join Date: May 2009
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Since the OP initiated the "upgrade" conversation at check-in, if he had asked "are there any complimentary upgrades available", could all of this not have been averted? They didn't offer him the upgrade preemptively, and even if they did, I'm not embarrassed to ask "oh how nice...it's a complimentary upgrade, right?" and if they say "no, it's $300 more per night", I'm not embarrassed to say thanks but no thanks, I'll keep my reserved room.
#281
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Since the OP initiated the "upgrade" conversation at check-in, if he had asked "are there any complimentary upgrades available", could all of this not have been averted? They didn't offer him the upgrade preemptively, and even if they did, I'm not embarrassed to ask "oh how nice...it's a complimentary upgrade, right?" and if they say "no, it's $300 more per night", I'm not embarrassed to say thanks but no thanks, I'll keep my reserved room.
If the hotel did not reveal there is a cost associated with the upgrade, which to everything we know is the case they cannot charge anything as simply it is fruad! Its $300 but they could say they agreed $1000, but without a signature to back it up the hotel is participating in theft as far as I am concerned and I personally find it amazing that people would somehow try and justify the position of the hotel considering how easily they could end up in a similar senario if any hotel picks to follow this type of routine!
#282
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Since the OP initiated the "upgrade" conversation at check-in, if he had asked "are there any complimentary upgrades available", could all of this not have been averted? They didn't offer him the upgrade preemptively, and even if they did, I'm not embarrassed to ask "oh how nice...it's a complimentary upgrade, right?" and if they say "no, it's $300 more per night", I'm not embarrassed to say thanks but no thanks, I'll keep my reserved room.
#283
Join Date: Jan 2005
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My apologies for my late night typing. I meant to type that "I too must echo the sentiment that the notion that if the FDC didn't mention the upgrade was free then you shouldn't assume it was free" is absurd
#284
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
Posts: 6,072
Since the OP initiated the "upgrade" conversation at check-in, if he had asked "are there any complimentary upgrades available", could all of this not have been averted? They didn't offer him the upgrade preemptively, and even if they did, I'm not embarrassed to ask "oh how nice...it's a complimentary upgrade, right?" and if they say "no, it's $300 more per night", I'm not embarrassed to say thanks but no thanks, I'll keep my reserved room.
If what you are saying here the OP initiated the upgrade then there is the potential of there being an upcharge. If the hotel initiated the upgrade and thanked the OP for his loyalty and was given keys without signing an additional folio or credit card sales receipt reflecting the upcharge then you can assume there is no additional cost. If the OP initiated the Upgrade and was tired and agreed to the $300 charge then I am sorry the hotel or SPG does not have to compensate the OP as he/she agreed to the additional cost and signed for it as I would imagine.
I don't care if you are drunk, tired or sick(not saying the OP was) and you signed the $300 upgrade charge then sorry tough luck you agreed to the hotel[s and SPG terms. There must be a clause in the terms about Upsells and Discounted Upgrades vs Complimentary Upgrades. Now if the Front Desk Agent was pulling a fast one then of course there should be an investigation as perhaps the same Front Desk Agent did the same to other guests. All Westin needs is proof that the OP did or did not sign the additional $300. What we don't know was this just a pre-authorization charge that will fall off after the guest checks out or is it a real charge to the credit card. Some suites require a higher incidental charge which has happened to me and it just falls off 3-5 days after I check out. Now if ti were a true $300 charge I would have had to sign the sales slip and have a copy of it along with the folio reflecting the $300 upgrade.
Last edited by danielonn; Dec 23, 2017 at 9:32 am
#285
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If any hotel provides an upgrade and does not indicate beforehand that there is a charge or does not have you sign for an upgrade fee, then it is unquestionably obvious that the upgrade is complimentary. No hotel offers a room without first taking payment, and no hotel offers a paid upgrade without first taking payment authorization for that upgrade. Period. End.
There are only two possibilities with our OP’s scenario:
(1) The OP forgot or somehow innocently missed or now is lying about the hotel FDC mentioning an upgrade charge for the suite. In this case, the OP is responsible for the suite upcharge fee, and that would explain why the hotel is not relenting. Period, end.
(2) The hotel FDC forgot to mention and/or get authorization for the upgrade charge for the suite and now is lying to cover his/her butt. In this case, the hotel is responsible for the FDC’s error and the hotel should obviate the charge. Period, end.
There is no way for anyone else to know if the OP or FDC is telling the truth. Further speculation is absolutely pointless. But have at it!
There are only two possibilities with our OP’s scenario:
(1) The OP forgot or somehow innocently missed or now is lying about the hotel FDC mentioning an upgrade charge for the suite. In this case, the OP is responsible for the suite upcharge fee, and that would explain why the hotel is not relenting. Period, end.
(2) The hotel FDC forgot to mention and/or get authorization for the upgrade charge for the suite and now is lying to cover his/her butt. In this case, the hotel is responsible for the FDC’s error and the hotel should obviate the charge. Period, end.
There is no way for anyone else to know if the OP or FDC is telling the truth. Further speculation is absolutely pointless. But have at it!