garykung

Independently owned? Yes. Independently operated? Definitely not.

At the minimum, the Westin St. Francis is subject to the oversight by Starwood.

Per OP's posts, OP seems exhausted all avenues with the hotel management. So I believe the 1 phone call method has been used.

Also - as you have said - SPG is not being sued, the hotel is being sued.

And allow me to refresh your memory of SPG's T&Cs related to cancellation of membership:

I am not saying SPG will take any actions for or against OP (in fact, I doubt SPG will do anything at all). Literally speaking, if SPG deems the chargeback as inappropriate, OP's membership could be in fact in jeopardy because of the chargeback.

Small Claims is definitely an overkill in this situation. However, if this ultimate ends up in court, and the court finds in favor of OP, SPG will be prohibited from taking any negative actions against OP due to the incident (per SPG's own T&Cs, the membership can't be cancelled by SPG without cause).

I know it sounds absurb. But this is the best way to protect OP. Doing the right thing does not always mean right.

Kacee

I would personally view chargeback as a last resort. The property does have the ability to involve corporate fraud, which can result in adverse action against the guest's program account. I'm not aware of any instances of this occurring with SPG, but there was a thread earlier this year in the Hilton forum about a guest who had his account closed and points forfeited due to a credit card related misunderstanding with a property.

mapleg

I was talking about experiences with any hotel, not just the Starwood hotels, so mea Culpa. As a lifetime Plat, I would not be asking is it free. Agree with you on that.

bhrubin

After communicating with SPG and getting nowhere, it would be prudent for the OP to file a compliant with the California State Attorney General: https://oag.ca.gov/

California is a very consumer-friendly state, and the laws here tend to err on the side of the consumer in most instances. Indicating to the Westin St Francis that such a complaint has been filed may encourage reconciliation.

Flews

The Sheraton Centre Toronto once tried to charge me for an upgrade. The exchange wasn't pleasant, but I had the charges removed on the spot.

One of many fails at this property that has caused me to refrain from returning.

Cheers,

Flews

Totally disagree. I have been upgraded a thousand times - including to several multi room "Presidential Suites" - and never once have I had to ask the FDC if there was a fee.

As posted elsewhere, I was once charged a fee. I resolved that in a hurry.

Cheers,

bhrubin

CPRich

I'm not sure what you're "refreshing my memory" about. Is there something in there that says being is sued less likely to get you booted vs. a phone call, which is what you quoted from me?

And then you agree with me anyway

And we all know that
so the discussion is pretty much moot.

CPRich

This doesn't make sense. The tenor of an elite program is exactly that you get benefits at no cost, like room upgrades for free. (though I must admit that your grammar makes it uncertain what you're actually saying. What is inapposite - assuming free upgrades (the phrase immediately preceding "that"), paying for upgrades, asking about paying for free upgrades?)

So if it's not free, the FDC always tells you there's a charge, but if the FDC doesn't tell you, you shoulldn't assume it's free? Huh?

Eujeanie

Since the OP initiated the "upgrade" conversation at check-in, if he had asked "are there any complimentary upgrades available", could all of this not have been averted? They didn't offer him the upgrade preemptively, and even if they did, I'm not embarrassed to ask "oh how nice...it's a complimentary upgrade, right?" and if they say "no, it's $300 more per night", I'm not embarrassed to say thanks but no thanks, I'll keep my reserved room.

UKTraveller4Fun

As a Platinum and a LTP at that it is quite normal to ask if there is an upgrade, there is absolutly no onus on the OP to ask these questions about cost and it is completly down to the Hotel to outline if there is a cost! The OP did not ask is there any paid upgrades, simply upgrades which any person with an ounce of common sense would know coming from a LTP will mean any upgrades due to status and to suggest otherwise is simply boarding on the ridicululas!

If the hotel did not reveal there is a cost associated with the upgrade, which to everything we know is the case they cannot charge anything as simply it is fruad! Its $300 but they could say they agreed $1000, but without a signature to back it up the hotel is participating in theft as far as I am concerned and I personally find it amazing that people would somehow try and justify the position of the hotel considering how easily they could end up in a similar senario if any hotel picks to follow this type of routine!

Keyser

i get upgraded on 95% of my stays....sometimes to suites & sometimes to deluxe / superior / enhanced rooms....the check-in agent always mention that they have upgraded me for being a platinum member....but never have i been charged for the upgrade & there has never been a need for me to ask....the op did ask for an upgrade but she was never informed that there would be a charge associated with it....if she was not informed of an additional charge then the upgrade is free....

clarkef

My apologies for my late night typing. I meant to type that "I too must echo the sentiment that the notion that if the FDC didn't mention the upgrade was free then you shouldn't assume it was free" is absurd

danielonn

So my response here is not absurd. I am trying to play devil 's advocates here. Even if I have the highest level of Frequent Flyer Status does not mean I am getting a complimentary upgrade but albeit I could get a Discounted Upgrade. Same with hotels. So please don't assume that just because you have the highest level of status does not mean you are going to get a room going for $1000 a night To me paying $300 for a multi night stay in a suite going for more is not a bad offer. If I thought it was worth it then I would take it if not I would politely decline it and ask for other options such as Club Level access etc.

If what you are saying here the OP initiated the upgrade then there is the potential of there being an upcharge. If the hotel initiated the upgrade and thanked the OP for his loyalty and was given keys without signing an additional folio or credit card sales receipt reflecting the upcharge then you can assume there is no additional cost. If the OP initiated the Upgrade and was tired and agreed to the $300 charge then I am sorry the hotel or SPG does not have to compensate the OP as he/she agreed to the additional cost and signed for it as I would imagine.

I don't care if you are drunk, tired or sick(not saying the OP was) and you signed the $300 upgrade charge then sorry tough luck you agreed to the hotel[s and SPG terms. There must be a clause in the terms about Upsells and Discounted Upgrades vs Complimentary Upgrades. Now if the Front Desk Agent was pulling a fast one then of course there should be an investigation as perhaps the same Front Desk Agent did the same to other guests. All Westin needs is proof that the OP did or did not sign the additional $300. What we don't know was this just a pre-authorization charge that will fall off after the guest checks out or is it a real charge to the credit card. Some suites require a higher incidental charge which has happened to me and it just falls off 3-5 days after I check out. Now if ti were a true $300 charge I would have had to sign the sales slip and have a copy of it along with the folio reflecting the $300 upgrade.

bhrubin

If any hotel provides an upgrade and does not indicate beforehand that there is a charge or does not have you sign for an upgrade fee, then it is unquestionably obvious that the upgrade is complimentary. No hotel offers a room without first taking payment, and no hotel offers a paid upgrade without first taking payment authorization for that upgrade. Period. End.

There are only two possibilities with our OP’s scenario:

(1) The OP forgot or somehow innocently missed or now is lying about the hotel FDC mentioning an upgrade charge for the suite. In this case, the OP is responsible for the suite upcharge fee, and that would explain why the hotel is not relenting. Period, end.

(2) The hotel FDC forgot to mention and/or get authorization for the upgrade charge for the suite and now is lying to cover his/her butt. In this case, the hotel is responsible for the FDC’s error and the hotel should obviate the charge. Period, end.

There is no way for anyone else to know if the OP or FDC is telling the truth. Further speculation is absolutely pointless. But have at it!