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29 Mar 2022 : Introduction of Dynamic award pricing and removal of award chart

Old Feb 25, 22, 8:38 am
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Last edit by: beltway
*** It seems the Free Night Certificate + Points "top-off" redemption went live on April 29 or 30th 2022 - Discussions here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...on-thread.html ***

Starting March 29, our new flexible point redemption rates will go into effect. That means free nights will align more closely with nightly rates and availability. For stay dates in 2022, you can expect that nearly all of our hotels will have the same minimum and maximum number of points required for redemption similarly to how they were previously categorized.

All the ways you earn points will not change youll just have more flexibility when youre ready to redeem.

Plus, starting at the end of April, you can combine your Free Night Award with up to 15,000 points to access more hotels youll love.

Our current redemption process will remain in place through March 28. After that, you will not see hotel categories (18) or redemption rates classified as Off-Peak, Standard, or Peak. At the same time, as part of our yearly redemption assessment process (similar to our annual category changes in previous years), the minimum point redemption rates will increase for approximately 200 hotels on March 29 thats less than 3% of all hotels. You can explore this list of hotels and decide when and where to maximize your free nights.

With our flexible cancellation policy, you can reserve your redemption stay and still modify your reservation if you find a lower rate in the future.

Want to learn more? Check out all our flexible point redemption rates FAQs.
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29 Mar 2022 : Introduction of Dynamic award pricing and removal of award chart

Old Feb 26, 22, 4:33 pm
  #61  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AA LT PLAT - BONVOY PLAT
Posts: 205
Booking 2022 for 2023?

[QUOTE=friedablass;34024334] My question is if this increase to 130k is only for 2022 stays and then for stays in 2023 the sky is the limit? Or will we be able to book in 2022 for stays on 2023 at the 130k cap just like we can currently book stays at the beginning of 2023 using the current award chart rates (i.e. 100k for peak top tier hotels)?

Same question - can we book post march 29 for stays in 2023 and expect (relative word) things to be similar to as they are now except for the 200 on the list?
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Old Feb 26, 22, 6:42 pm
  #62  
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I find it quite amusing that a SpringHill at Orange Beach, AL is on the 10K increase list. Last night I was looking at this property and the Fairfield at the same area but a better location on the beach. Finally decided to book Fairfield despite it is an old property while the SpringHill is fairly new looking, but its location is rather away from the beach while on a Wharf by the river but the Beach is the draw in that area. The cash rates of these, even during Spring Breaks, are $95 for SH and $80 for FF. Both are Cat 4 IIRC, and now SH will go up by another 10K?! Who would be stupid enough to spend 50K for a property even at Spring Breaks is at $105 incl taxes?!

And the SH at Ocala also is on the 10K list... Dont understand why Ocala can be popular.

Some of the properties on the 10K list dont make any sense, such as the Fairfield at West Palm Beach, Residence Inn at Palm Beach Garden and the Four Points at Orlando.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 6:50 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by rrgg
Here's the list of hotels decreasing in price:
I was expecting half that number to be on the list.
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Last edited by Herb687; Feb 26, 22 at 6:55 pm
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Old Feb 26, 22, 6:54 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by ChurnieEls
I think this is going to precipitate a ton of disengagement from the program. At least Hilton have a ceiling on standard rooms (Assuming they're available), with this a property can simply choose to effectively shut off to award stays.
Marriott properties already shut off award stays entirely on certain dates. Award blackout dates are already very common.


Originally Posted by gudugan
My plan
  • Blow all points now on aspirational properties
  • Mattress run on 2x nights promo in cheap countries for Titanium for a few years
  • Hit lifetime Platinum
  • Become a hotels dot com loyalist

Too hard to hit Globalist, footprint is really annoying
List items #1 and #4 seem a decent plan but why bother with items #2 and #3?
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Old Feb 26, 22, 7:18 pm
  #65  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: HH Silver, MR Plat Prem & LT Plat, Hyatt Plat,SPG Plat, Hertz PC, National EE, UA 1K
Posts: 3,383
I am a loyal hotels dot com (due to booking a few hundred nights a year for others that work for me...and most dont have credit cards to "front the money" so it works out for both of us ) user. I have around 65 nights right now "banked" with them. I have been trying to use them quickly, as my understanding is now that they are owned by the same company as booking dot com, the program may/will change!

Careful what you wish for!
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Old Feb 26, 22, 7:37 pm
  #66  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Programs: Marriott Titanium (Lifetime Gold), Caesars Diamond, MGM Gold
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Originally Posted by Herb687
List items #1 and #4 seem a decent plan but why bother with items #2 and #3?
I already have 350 nights and 8 years platinum. Currently at Royal Hawaiian in a non-junior suite (booked on points with SNA). I like the program and Hilton Diamond doesnt give the benefits I like (upgrades, breakfast, 4pm checkout).

I only like Hotels dot com for the 10% rebate, Booking has tons more properties especially in Europe
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Old Feb 26, 22, 7:47 pm
  #67  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 238
are you guys keeping track of the devals?
the ones i remember:
- from 1:3 to 1:2 earning ratio on spg cards
- introduction of cat 8
- off peak / regular / peak
- frequent category bump
- removal of non-blackout policy
- and now, dynamic pricing
all that in the span of 3-4y? that hurts

Last edited by randomdude; Feb 26, 22 at 8:10 pm
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Old Feb 26, 22, 11:19 pm
  #68  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: UA Au Marriott Ti Hilton C
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Originally Posted by randomdude
are you guys keeping track of the devals?
the ones i remember:
- from 1:3 to 1:2 earning ratio on spg cards
- introduction of cat 8
- off peak / regular / peak
- frequent category bump
- removal of non-blackout policy
- and now, dynamic pricing
all that in the span of 3-4y? that hurts
I agree, but I think you missed the worst deval of all, which was the destruction of Travel Packages a few years ago. I realize they lived on until recently, though the value was long gone.

Its been pretty clear for a while where MR was headed. I had about four million equivalent (MR + SPG) points at the time of the merger and Ive been burning them ever since. There were many years where Mrs. 1120 and I only booked Marriott properties for both business and personal travel. Im lifetime Ti and she is lifetime Pt so we are (presumably) the kind of customers that Marriott wants to keep.

Honestly, Im fine with what theyve done since it kind of made me remove my blinders and the grass really is greener as a free agent.

Im down to about 300K points and Ill see if I can get one more good redemption before the next set of devals.

I love the Hotel Park City (which is on the list) and maybe we can pull off one more trip next ski season with points.

As a final word to Marriott (and yes, I get that they dont care) I anticipate spending about $40K between hotel and Airbnb this year. Right now, less than $2K of that will go to Marriott.

It was good while it lasted.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 11:34 pm
  #69  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
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I thought for sure the Cat 8s in Italy would get slammed - Gritti Palace, Excelsior Florence. DId I miss it?

I booked 12 nights between the two - but I really wanted to go 2023 as I had other plans this year.

St
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Old Feb 27, 22, 1:13 am
  #70  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
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Posts: 9,825
Originally Posted by randomdude
are you guys keeping track of the devals?
the ones i remember:
- from 1:3 to 1:2 earning ratio on spg cards
- introduction of cat 8
- off peak / regular / peak
- frequent category bump
- removal of non-blackout policy
- and now, dynamic pricing
all that in the span of 3-4y? that hurts
Originally Posted by 1120
I agree, but I think you missed the worst deval of all, which was the destruction of Travel Packages a few years ago. I realize they lived on until recently, though the value was long gone.

It’s been pretty clear for a while where MR was headed. I had about four million equivalent (MR + SPG) points at the time of the merger and I’ve been burning them ever since. There were many years where Mrs. 1120 and I only booked Marriott properties for both business and personal travel. I’m lifetime Ti and she is lifetime Pt so we are (presumably) the kind of customers that Marriott wants to keep.

Honestly, I’m fine with what they’ve done since it kind of made me remove my blinders and the grass really is greener as a free agent.

I’m down to about 300K points and I’ll see if I can get one more good redemption before the next set of devals.

I love the Hotel Park City (which is on the list) and maybe we can pull off one more trip next ski season with points.

As a final word to Marriott (and yes, I get that they don’t care) I anticipate spending about $40K between hotel and Airbnb this year. Right now, less than $2K of that will go to Marriott.

It was good while it lasted.
I was planning to save points for some Maldives properties.

260K for Westin, 385K for Ritz, 385K for St.R. and 370K for W. Five nights. Cash value: $5,000-$18,000

Now I see this.

I am redeeming 240K miles for Aruba JW next month. The cash value isn't great ($3,300).

But, upcoming MB dynamic pricing might require 1 million points at Maldives Ritz.
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Old Feb 27, 22, 5:41 am
  #71  
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Originally Posted by stant
say that when you are snowed in, the airport is closed, all hotels are booked, and the front desk walks someone so that you dont have to check out. sleeping on the floor at the airport sucks.
That's like saying I should buy, own, and maintain a Greyhound bus, getting 5 mpg on my grocery runs, because once or twice in my lifetime I may have to transport 47 people somewhere.

The cost of achieving that capability far outweighs the value of its very, very occasional use.
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Old Feb 27, 22, 7:46 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Global Entry
Posts: 1,345
Originally Posted by ChurnieEls
Respectfully, I think this is different. With the ranges and exceptions they've mentioned, I think we're probably looking at a devaluation of 50%+ which is an incredible evisceration of value. The reason they can actually do this (insofar as I believe), is because they didn't secure any debt against the program (unlike say AA, or Hilton selling buckets of points to Amex), otherwise the legals would absolutely have a floor on the currency.

The balance between customer and shareholder is a delicate one, but I think they've probably gone too far in favor of shareholders/franchisees this time and I do expect it to show up in program engagement numbers. The program is effectively a customer list and I do genuinely believe that a gutting of value to this extent could even possibly show up in a goodwill impairment given the lack of clarity over 2023s valuations (which would impact shareholders).

I get what you're saying re we say this about xyz program every year, but I do ask, footprint aside, what's the compelling reason to participate in the Bonvoy program now? Hilton do far better promotions, Hyatt do far better elite benefits. I just don't see the gameplan for Marriott aside from trying to be some sort of hotel flavored Airbnb outfit.
See though, there is so much more here. A "50% devaluation" is a deceptive assessment, at-best.

Let's remember how much of a percentage of return these points truly are. For the sake of math, what would this truly cost you? 2-3% of your spend? No need to remind where inflation is at. Let's also remember, not all properties have increased that much. Some not at all. The beauty of the large chains is that there are so many options. Let's be honest, many times there are reasonably priced properties no matter what happens. If you only stay at properties that took the biggest hit, then I get it that stings. However, it would also sting to lose such a large portfolio of aspirational properties altogether. All while chasing the greener grass that another chain has all of these deals that will never change.

When you factor in benefits, including lifetime statuses, chasing said statues, credit card rewards, footprint, and so much more, the 2-3% "loss" seems to disproportionately outweigh the rest of the discussion. I'm a Hilton guy at the moment. I hear the same stuff all of the time. "I'm done with Hilton. I'm going to Marriott". While the Marriott people talk about the greener grass at Hilton. Wash, rinse, and repeat forever. Meanwhile, the price at many aspirational properties is through the roof altogether. The dollar inflation causes less emotional distress in this place than a point inflation does. We lose our minds about penny on the dollar points.

People are overly obsessed with free stuff. For many, it's rarely about what did I actually spend vs what I was looking for. It's more about "this was included, this was free, this was a deal". We've all sat through countless boats of family or friends, which have made no sense whatsoever. As I also know, you will never convince someone that their choice isn't as god-sent as they believe it was.
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Old Feb 27, 22, 9:06 am
  #73  
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Originally Posted by PhillyPhlyer40
I am a loyal hotels dot com (due to booking a few hundred nights a year for others that work for me...and most dont have credit cards to "front the money" so it works out for both of us ) user. I have around 65 nights right now "banked" with them. I have been trying to use them quickly, as my understanding is now that they are owned by the same company as booking dot com, the program may/will change!

Careful what you wish for!
No. The threat is that the buy 10 get 1 free at the rate you paid for 10 goes away if/when Hotels.com is converted to Expedia Rewards (hotels.com is rebadged Expedia).

https://viewfromthewing.com/can-expe...-service-oops/

Sorry for the diversion, we take you now back to your Marriott devaluation with complimentary sackcloth and ashes, already In progress.
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Old Feb 27, 22, 9:34 am
  #74  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Programs: Marriott Titanium (Lifetime Gold), Caesars Diamond, MGM Gold
Posts: 1,056
Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
No. The threat is that the buy 10 get 1 free at the rate you paid for 10 goes away if/when Hotels.com is converted to Expedia Rewards (hotels.com is rebadged Expedia).

https://viewfromthewing.com/can-expe...-service-oops/
Even worse than I thought. I cant do Airbnb because most have inflexible cancellation policy and I change my mind a billion times.

Also above forgot the change that stopped letting you get multiple nights for 3 rooms booked as well as getting nights for meetings. Sadly never used either.

Hilton is fine for points redemption I guess but Hilton Diamond == Marriott Gold as far as Im concerned, both are worthless

Last edited by gudugan; Feb 27, 22 at 1:37 pm
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Old Feb 27, 22, 11:08 am
  #75  
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