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29 Mar 2022 : Introduction of Dynamic award pricing and removal of award chart

Old Feb 25, 22, 8:38 am
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Last edit by: beltway
*** It seems the Free Night Certificate + Points "top-off" redemption went live on April 29 or 30th 2022 - Discussions here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...on-thread.html ***

Starting March 29, our new flexible point redemption rates will go into effect. That means free nights will align more closely with nightly rates and availability. For stay dates in 2022, you can expect that nearly all of our hotels will have the same minimum and maximum number of points required for redemption similarly to how they were previously categorized.

All the ways you earn points will not change youll just have more flexibility when youre ready to redeem.

Plus, starting at the end of April, you can combine your Free Night Award with up to 15,000 points to access more hotels youll love.

Our current redemption process will remain in place through March 28. After that, you will not see hotel categories (18) or redemption rates classified as Off-Peak, Standard, or Peak. At the same time, as part of our yearly redemption assessment process (similar to our annual category changes in previous years), the minimum point redemption rates will increase for approximately 200 hotels on March 29 thats less than 3% of all hotels. You can explore this list of hotels and decide when and where to maximize your free nights.

With our flexible cancellation policy, you can reserve your redemption stay and still modify your reservation if you find a lower rate in the future.

Want to learn more? Check out all our flexible point redemption rates FAQs.
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29 Mar 2022 : Introduction of Dynamic award pricing and removal of award chart

Old Feb 25, 22, 11:42 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Programs: Marriott LTP
Posts: 133
Many thanks to Starwood and Marriott for all the good memories over the years...!

My family has had many incredible stays at some of the most aspirational properties in the portfolio over the years.

Going forward though, the decision to substantially erode the value of their points, will substantially erode the loyalty of their members.

The only constant in life is change, and we'll be shifting most of our stays to AirBNB going forward...
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Old Feb 26, 22, 1:15 am
  #47  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 62
I might be in the minority (and stupid enough to fall for their marketing blah) but at least the 2022 devaluation seems to be far from being as massive as predicted by some.
I would see this as we all got a bit more time to redeem points with a significant but not impossible increase.
Yes, 2023 will likely be the year to stop loyalty to Marriott - but for so long, lets enjoy the program while prices are still below SPG for some of the most aspirational properties during certain times (I recall StR Maldives being 35k SPG all-year which would be 105k Marriott while off-peak would be 90 now based on 70+20).

The one potential caveat: I have not seen a statement about the category changes. It might be that some Cat 4. 5, 6, 7 get a massive further devaluation by just categorizing them differently. Anyone having some intelligence on that?
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Old Feb 26, 22, 1:19 am
  #48  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 188
Exactly, vote with your wallet. Byebye Marriott, you got worse over time but this is it.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 1:20 am
  #49  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 9,400
Originally Posted by just2010just
This is exhibit A of industry consolidation will NEVER be good for consumers.
I think with Marriott, we are up to Exhibit R at this point....if not more.

Originally Posted by t3ame
I might be in the minority (and stupid enough to fall for their marketing blah) but at least the 2022 devaluation seems to be far from being as massive as predicted by some.
I would see this as we all got a bit more time to redeem points with a significant but not impossible increase.
Yes, 2023 will likely be the year to stop loyalty to Marriott - but for so long, lets enjoy the program while prices are still below SPG for some of the most aspirational properties during certain times (I recall StR Maldives being 35k SPG all-year which would be 105k Marriott while off-peak would be 90 now based on 70+20).

The one potential caveat: I have not seen a statement about the category changes. It might be that some Cat 4. 5, 6, 7 get a massive further devaluation by just categorizing them differently. Anyone having some intelligence on that?
​​​​​​​I thought categories were going away?
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Old Feb 26, 22, 1:23 am
  #50  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by goodeats21
I thought categories were going away?
Would be a good explanation why I missed any information on that. I thought the dynamic pricing to be within the bands of their respective 2021 categories for 2022.
But that was probably wishful thinking
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Old Feb 26, 22, 2:41 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MXP
Programs: SK*G, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,401
Originally Posted by t3ame
Yes, 2023 will likely be the year to stop loyalty to Marriott
For me as a purely leisure traveller, 2022 is the year to stop all loyalty to Marriott, and also the year to burn all the points. The value proposition of paying a premium to stay at a Marriott property was already wobbly since the start of the pandemic, with inconsistent upgrades and a global drop in breakfast quality, so now that great-value redemptions are taken out of the picture, it simply isn't worth it anymore. I do most of my travel in Europe where Marriott can be outrageously expensive, and I can often book a suite w/ breakfast in a boutique property for the price of a standard room at an upmarket Marriott hotel. When I went to the Maldives last year, I literally booked an overwater bungalow in an independent resort for less than half the price of a comparable Marriott one.

I appreciate that for business travellers where expenses are not paid out-of-pocket the Marriott loyalty game may still make sense, but for leisure travel it's highly questionable at best and nonsensical at worst.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 8:01 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Global Entry
Posts: 1,345
Originally Posted by ChurnieEls
I think this is going to precipitate a ton of disengagement from the program. At least Hilton have a ceiling on standard rooms (Assuming they're available), with this a property can simply choose to effectively shut off to award stays.

Not surprised though, its another step toward a franchisee centered program.
The problem is, every year or two, the same arguments, and same cycles make their rounds for almost every chain. A hotel might go up in price by 30% on its cash rate. No one will ever bat an eye, it'll probably even still sell out. If the point price goes up 30%, well then that is the end of the line. Time to go somewhere else. Grass is greener elsewhere. One person's greedy company is the next person's new safe haven of value, and vice-versa.

I often wonder if all the emotions truly match the financials we get so emotional over. People seem to care much more about what is "free" than what they actually spend. I mean, I'm never thrilled when properties go up in points. Do we expect that this would never happen?
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Old Feb 26, 22, 10:11 am
  #53  
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador & Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,130
Thank you SPG for the great memories. It only took Marriott a few years to wreck it all.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 10:22 am
  #54  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 9,400
The other part of the equation is "cost" of obtaining the points. With the double point promo stacked with extra 1000 per night currently, I am gathering points quicker then anytime in recent past.

Overall, programs are getting rid of oversized redemption values (sweet spots) an mirroring them more to dollar cost.

I wish we had the value in all programs like when I started getting into this, but I am not gnashing teeth at the end of the world either.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 11:13 am
  #55  
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
I blame my relationship. The hotel I got engaged at (Grand Bohemian Asheville), the hotel we stayed at in Hawaii last year (Westin Hapuna) and the hotel we started our honeymoon at (St. Regis New York) are all on the list. Sorry everyone.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 11:44 am
  #56  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,683
Originally Posted by ChurnieEls
... At least Hilton have a ceiling on standard rooms (Assuming they're available), with this a property can simply choose to effectively shut off to award stays. ...
I had some wishful thinking that dynamic pricing meant Marriott might also allow awards for some non-standard rooms for more points. Not suites, just standard rooms that aren't called standard because of a better view. SPG allowed this by phone. If Marriott thinks that's a giveaway, they could tie it to holding a premium card, Brilliant/Ritz or elite status.

I hope Marriott considers it someday.

Last edited by rrgg; Feb 26, 22 at 12:40 pm
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Old Feb 26, 22, 11:48 am
  #57  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Programs: Marriott Platinum - LT Gold
Posts: 686
Tbh it doesn't make sense to book a night for big event like NYE, Formula 1, any other sports event for like 50 000 points or pay 2000 usd.
The change sucks but I understand the reason behind it and that properties are loosing big money during big events like above.
I'm personally not into Bonvoy's top tier properties around the globe like St Regis Maldives, Bora Bora etc. anyway so this doesn't harm me at all. My middle class stays will be business as usual lol.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 1:17 pm
  #58  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Bonvoy ambassador - lifetime plat / Hilton diamond / AA CK baby!
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by BearX220
Loyalty is stupid. It costs more than being fickle.
say that when you are snowed in, the airport is closed, all hotels are booked, and the front desk walks someone so that you dont have to check out. sleeping on the floor at the airport sucks.

Originally Posted by joakgarp
I'm personally not into Bonvoy's top tier properties around the globe like St Regis Maldives, Bora Bora etc. anyway so this doesn't harm me at all. My middle class stays will be business as usual lol.
i bet you 99.44% of those complaining about this 'devaluation' arent spending every other weekend in the maldives either...
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Old Feb 26, 22, 1:32 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Programs: $9 Fare Club
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by Super Mario
The problem is, every year or two, the same arguments, and same cycles make their rounds for almost every chain. A hotel might go up in price by 30% on its cash rate. No one will ever bat an eye, it'll probably even still sell out. If the point price goes up 30%, well then that is the end of the line. Time to go somewhere else. Grass is greener elsewhere. One person's greedy company is the next person's new safe haven of value, and vice-versa.

I often wonder if all the emotions truly match the financials we get so emotional over. People seem to care much more about what is "free" than what they actually spend. I mean, I'm never thrilled when properties go up in points. Do we expect that this would never happen?
Respectfully, I think this is different. With the ranges and exceptions they've mentioned, I think we're probably looking at a devaluation of 50%+ which is an incredible evisceration of value. The reason they can actually do this (insofar as I believe), is because they didn't secure any debt against the program (unlike say AA, or Hilton selling buckets of points to Amex), otherwise the legals would absolutely have a floor on the currency.

The balance between customer and shareholder is a delicate one, but I think they've probably gone too far in favor of shareholders/franchisees this time and I do expect it to show up in program engagement numbers. The program is effectively a customer list and I do genuinely believe that a gutting of value to this extent could even possibly show up in a goodwill impairment given the lack of clarity over 2023s valuations (which would impact shareholders).

I get what you're saying re we say this about xyz program every year, but I do ask, footprint aside, what's the compelling reason to participate in the Bonvoy program now? Hilton do far better promotions, Hyatt do far better elite benefits. I just don't see the gameplan for Marriott aside from trying to be some sort of hotel flavored Airbnb outfit.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 4:21 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Programs: Marriott Titanium (Lifetime Gold), Caesars Diamond, MGM Gold
Posts: 1,056
My plan
  • Blow all points now on aspirational properties
  • Mattress run on 2x nights promo in cheap countries for Titanium for a few years
  • Hit lifetime Platinum
  • Become a hotels dot com loyalist

Too hard to hit Globalist, footprint is really annoying
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