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-   -   Conflicting/Confusing Cancellation Policy (Discussion Thread) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/2014761-conflicting-confusing-cancellation-policy-discussion-thread.html)

johnaalex May 18, 2020 8:19 am

I cancelled a non-refundable reservation for the Dubrovnik Sheraton on May 5th. As I have not had the money refunded yet, I contacted Customer Services and they basically said I might have to wait up to 90 days for the refund. If I don't get anything by then I can contact them again. Also, the email from CS stated "The form and timing of refund may be subject to applicable laws where each hotel is located." :mad:

I did send a PM to the Lurker asking for help to speed this refund up. This is their reply:

"
Hi John,

Thank you for contacting us. I checked on this for you and confirmed that your 6/30/2020-7/06/2020 reservation at the Sheraton Dubrovnik Riviera Hotel (Confirmation #: ******6 / Cancellation #: ******74) does does fall within the guidelines of our cancellation policies related to COVID-19 and your pre-paid deposit will be refunded. As outlined in the email you received from Customer Care, reservation refunds may take up to 90 days from the date the reservation was cancelled to be processed. Unfortunately, we are unable to expedite the refund process as the form and timing of refund may be subject to applicable laws where each hotel is located. Visit: https://marriott-re-2019ncovc.com/ for more details. Should you have any other questions or concerns for our team, please let us know. Stay safe, and we look forward to welcoming you as a guest in the near future!

Warm regards,

Social Media Liaison"


Suffice to say I am not impressed.

larsegg May 18, 2020 10:58 am


Originally Posted by mahasamatman (Post 32382735)
Exactly. Law overrides policy.

When I cancelled, that law had not yet been passed.

LondonElite May 19, 2020 6:25 am


Originally Posted by SPN Lifer (Post 32382786)
Query: For American customers, can foreign hotel cash-flow-preservation laws override U.S. consumer-protection and contract law?

When refunds are not promptly credited, customers should be utilizing credit card dispute / chargeback procedures.

If you have a contract with a Greek hotel, how do US consumer-protection laws come into play? They don't. In the contract you'll find that the place of dispute resolution is in Greece.

SPN Lifer May 19, 2020 8:37 am

If the contract was entered into in the United States, by a U.S. resident, through a U.S. website, with a U.S. corporation (Marriott), using a U.S. credit card, and other similar factors, there are certainly choice of law principles and arguments in favor of the domestic (U.S.) forum.

Where in the contract is it stated that the exclusive place of dispute resolution is in Greece?

Even if this were so, there may be contrary forum selection or venue clauses in the credit card terms & conditions (disputes with bank), Marriott website (Utah?), and the consumer protection laws themselves, among other possibilities.

Choice of law issues are seldom simple.

"Those who sleep on their rights lose them" (laches) applies to filing a timely credit-card chargeback / dispute.

"You snooze, you lose!"

LondonElite May 20, 2020 5:13 am


Originally Posted by SPN Lifer (Post 32387644)
If the contract was entered into in the United States, by a U.S. resident, through a U.S. website, with a U.S. corporation (Marriott), using a U.S. credit card, and other similar factors, there are certainly choice of law principles and arguments in favor of the domestic (U.S.) forum.

Where in the contract is it stated that the exclusive place of dispute resolution is in Greece?

Even if this were so, there may be contrary forum selection or venue clauses in the credit card terms & conditions (disputes with bank), Marriott website (Utah?), and the consumer protection laws themselves, among other possibilities.

Choice of law issues are seldom simple.

"Those who sleep on their rights lose them" (laches) applies to filing a timely credit-card chargeback / dispute.

"You snooze, you lose!"

I really have no idea what the contract says, but from a practical point of view, you can either pursue Marriott in the US, through your US credit card, or you can pursue the hotel in Greece. If you choose the latter, you will likely be told to pound sand if you bring up anything regarding US consumer protection laws. Trying a chargeback with your credit card might work, until you are told that the hotel referred to the local laws and doesn't have to.

mccorry May 22, 2020 11:00 am


Originally Posted by evergrn (Post 32381518)
I was just told by the phone rep that, if I make a prepaid/nonrefundable booking right now for, say, Nov 30th, then I have to cancel by June 30th in order to avoid cancellation penalty.
I was actually under the impression that I'd have until Nov 29th to cancel without penalty.
She told me that, after June 30th, all the normal prepaid booking conditions are restored and are applied to even the ones I make in May/June.

Was this rep correct or incorrect?
Hyatt has very similar language for their policy and the Hyatt rep confirmed that I would have until 24hrs prior to arrival to cancel a nonrefundable booking if made by June 30th.
And, reading Marriott's rule over and over, I'm just unable to interpret it the same way that the rep is.

I am struggling with this too. I am torn over making a non-refundable pre-paid reservation over Christmas in a Ritz Carlton in Asia for a quite amazing deal, but I'm concerned about what might happen if I cannot travel.

The relevant cancellation policy, as you noted, is:

For guests making new reservations for any future arrival date, including reservations with pre-paid rates, between today and June 30, 2020, we will allow the reservation to be changed or cancelled at no charge up to 24 hours before your scheduled arrival date.

I had interpreted this to mean that as long as I made the reservation by June 30, it would be cancellable up to 24 hours before, even if the stay itself was in December, say. I think this is the same as your interpretation. However, I think it *is* equally valid to interpret this as the phone rep has done to you, that even for a new reservation made for, say, December, the 'today to June 30' window refers to the latter clause in the sentence (change or cancel) rather than the former clause in the sentence (when you make the new reservation).

I think they could have been much clearer in this, to be honest. It would not have been that hard.

LondonElite May 22, 2020 11:10 am


Originally Posted by mccorry (Post 32395806)
I am struggling with this too. I am torn over making a non-refundable pre-paid reservation over Christmas in a Ritz Carlton in Asia for a quite amazing deal, but I'm concerned about what might happen if I cannot travel.

The relevant cancellation policy, as you noted, is:

For guests making new reservations for any future arrival date, including reservations with pre-paid rates, between today and June 30, 2020, we will allow the reservation to be changed or cancelled at no charge up to 24 hours before your scheduled arrival date.

I had interpreted this to mean that as long as I made the reservation by June 30, it would be cancellable up to 24 hours before, even if the stay itself was in December, say. I think this is the same as your interpretation. However, I think it *is* equally valid to interpret this as the phone rep has done to you, that even for a new reservation made for, say, December, the 'today to June 30' window refers to the latter clause in the sentence (change or cancel) rather than the former clause in the sentence (when you make the new reservation).

I think they could have been much clearer in this, to be honest. It would not have been that hard.

No, the English is quite clear. ‘Making‘ refers to 30 June. This is evident as the phrase ‘for any future arrival date’ makes clear. ‘Any’ couldn’t be logically modified by ‘30 June’.

mccorry May 22, 2020 12:13 pm


Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 32395830)
No, the English is quite clear. ‘Making‘ refers to 30 June. This is evident as the phrase ‘for any future arrival date’ makes clear. ‘Any’ couldn’t be logically modified by ‘30 June’.

I’m not suggesting that ‘any future arrival date’ was being modified by 30 June.

What I’m saying is fuzzy is that it’s not clear that the 30 June window refers to just the ‘making’ or the opportunity to cancel.

So is your interpretation that a booking made today for 10 December can be cancelled up to 30 June or 9 December?

evergrn May 23, 2020 2:34 am


Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 32395830)
No, the English is quite clear. ‘Making‘ refers to 30 June. This is evident as the phrase ‘for any future arrival date’ makes clear. ‘Any’ couldn’t be logically modified by ‘30 June’.

Not at all clear. Either that, or maybe I need to improve my English.



Originally Posted by mccorry (Post 32396006)
I’m not suggesting that ‘any future arrival date’ was being modified by 30 June.

What I’m saying is fuzzy is that it’s not clear that the 30 June window refers to just the ‘making’ or the opportunity to cancel.

So is your interpretation that a booking made today for 10 December can be cancelled up to 30 June or 9 December?

Based on my interpretation, it was 9 Dec. The way they state it, I think vast majority of people will interpret it that way.
Based on Hyatt's similarly-stated policy, it's 9 Dec (I confirmed with their rep).
But the Marriott rep insists it's 30 June.
Did you call Marriott and speak to a rep? I wonder if you'll get the same or different answer than what I got.

If Marriott's policy is indeed as the rep told me, then they should've said: "For guests making new reservations for any future arrival date, including reservations with pre-paid rates, between today and June 30, 2020, we will allow the reservation to be changed or cancelled at no charge through June 30, 2020, as long as it is at least 24 hours before your scheduled arrival date."

LondonElite May 23, 2020 3:03 am


Originally Posted by mccorry (Post 32396006)
I’m not suggesting that ‘any future arrival date’ was being modified by 30 June.

What I’m saying is fuzzy is that it’s not clear that the 30 June window refers to just the ‘making’ or the opportunity to cancel.

So is your interpretation that a booking made today for 10 December can be cancelled up to 30 June or 9 December?

I see what you are saying, and yes the wording could be a bit clearer, but the only sensible interpretation is that 30 June refers to ‘making’ and 24 hours to cancel applies to the arrival date, not 30 June.

keatm1 Jun 4, 2020 2:58 am

Just to update .. I received a refund in full from my hotel in Greece for a pre-June 30 arrival - fully prepaid booking.

They initially tried the voucher/credit option but when i politely declined and expressed a wish for a refund, they said no problem. It took 3 weeks for money to be refunded.

tbh, the way they dealt with it pretty much guarantees i will return!!

TravelerIT Jun 5, 2020 4:48 am


Originally Posted by keatm1 (Post 32428305)
Just to update .. I received a refund in full from my hotel in Greece for a pre-June 30 arrival - fully prepaid booking.

They initially tried the voucher/credit option but when i politely declined and expressed a wish for a refund, they said no problem. It took 3 weeks for money to be refunded.

tbh, the way they dealt with it pretty much guarantees i will return!!


I've not been as lucky as you! And I had a flex-cancellation reservation (canceled well before the "deadline")!
But the hotel don't wanna reimburse! They only provide voucher!

Now it's 2 weeks I'm waiting for a reply to my last email...! Really a terrible service!

ckendall Jun 5, 2020 9:57 am


Originally Posted by ckendall (Post 32318533)
I just cancelled (yesterday) a prepaid reservation for May at the Hotel de Berri in Paris and I got a nice note today from the hotel assuring me: "reservation xxx have been cancelled without penalty. The credit of your deposit is being processed for refund."

So I am quite pleased.

Six weeks later and no refund. I have opened a dispute with Amex and they will temporarily credit my account pending contact with the hotel.

SoCal Travel Jun 11, 2020 8:43 pm

Thank you to everyone that responded to my post about the Domes of Elounda. I'm pleased report that AMEX resolved the dispute in my favor and credited my account with the deposit that was supposed to be refunded in the first place. I had a refundable reservation and cancelled well within the time period yet the Domes and Marriott refused to refund the deposit. I had reached out to the Domes on numerous occasions yet was met with the same response about the Greek Law allowing to hold deposits. They only offered additional credits if I wanted to stay there in the next 18 months. I was most disappointed in the response by Marriott. Just a bunch of you need to call the hotel responses. They refused to stand behind me during the dispute.

We will all be making decisions about where to travel and who to travel with as we emerge from the crisis. Now that I know that Marriott is nothing more than a second rate booking engine that hides behind it's small print, I will be doing my best to avoid them. They were completely non responsive during this whole ordeal. If you choose to travel with them, just remember that not all Marriott hotels follow the same rules...buyer beware.

LondonElite Jun 12, 2020 12:11 am


Originally Posted by SoCal Travel (Post 32449648)
Thank you to everyone that responded to my post about the Domes of Elounda. I'm pleased report that AMEX resolved the dispute in my favor and credited my account with the deposit that was supposed to be refunded in the first place. I had a refundable reservation and cancelled well within the time period yet the Domes and Marriott refused to refund the deposit. I had reached out to the Domes on numerous occasions yet was met with the same response about the Greek Law allowing to hold deposits. They only offered additional credits if I wanted to stay there in the next 18 months. I was most disappointed in the response by Marriott. Just a bunch of you need to call the hotel responses. They refused to stand behind me during the dispute.

We will all be making decisions about where to travel and who to travel with as we emerge from the crisis. Now that I know that Marriott is nothing more than a second rate booking engine that hides behind it's small print, I will be doing my best to avoid them. They were completely non responsive during this whole ordeal. If you choose to travel with them, just remember that not all Marriott hotels follow the same rules...buyer beware.

Has your chargeback become permanent? When it first posts it is temporary while they get in touch with the hotel.


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