EuropeanPete

Marriott are cracking down on consumers in general - obviously some of these things will hit those who get high status and benefits despite few stays. I definitely felt the pinch as a relatively recent 150 night/ $50k/ yr customer. I no longer see the value proposition of the programme myself, but obviously others may have different needs.

lsquare

When did that happened? I don't see it as gaming either. I think Hilton have rollover nights? It would have been nice if Marriott kept that or add it back in the near future!

lsquare

I think that's the problem. Since they're so big, they don't need to be competitive. Since I started this much later than the rest of you guys, I never benefited the "easy" way. I'm still going to try to hit Platinum for this year. Hopefully Hilton and Hyatt up their game to put some pressure on Marriott.

lsquare

Yes! Like what you and someone else have said, I think Marriott should have rollover nights similar to how Delta have rollover MQMs. That would give me an incentive to spend more nights in a calendar year and not worry about "wasting" those nights. I think we should be careful about wanting a recession. There are unforeseen consequences. However, having said that, I do have a relatively "safe" job so if it happens, I'll be ready for whatever promotion Marriott have for me.

yulsee

So who did Bonvoy hire after the merger with SPG to counsel them about the elimination of the low spending gamers ? Someone from SPG? A Flyertalker ? Or the Points Guy ?

It must've been someone pretty knowledgeable about the tricks like the cheap meetings for status, speculative points advance, ...

JBord

I read this twice, but I'm still not sure I get it. There's already a spend component to the program, but of course it requires a certain number of nights too. Are you suggesting that Marriott should move to a program that's strictly based on spend? Staying at a luxury property has absolutely nothing to do with it. Spending $5k at a Courtyard for a room is the same as spending $5k at a St. Regis. In fact, $5k at the CY probably brings a much higher profit margin. Why should they make status more easily attainable for someone who carries lower profit margin?

I'd be ok with an "either/or" program, kind of like United has now. Either make status on nights or spend. My spend for 50-75 nights, mostly at low-cost properties for my work, comes nowhere near the $20k for Ambassador. But I have no problem with someone who spends $15k on 10 nights (regardless of brand) making Platinum or even Titanium. In both cases, Marriott would be rewarding valuable customers.

Interestingly, I'm on the other end for United. These days I fly only about 35-40k miles, so usually at Silver, but I have to book a lot of travel only a week out, so my spend should get me to Gold.

kaizen7

I'm guessing he means Bonvoy didnt encourage member to book higher cat rooms as the spend alone cant give you elite tier qualification.

For example booking a standard room at St Regis Abu Dhabi or their presidential suite will give you same 1 elite night credit.

While at Accor, book the said presidential suite will catapult your status to platinum straight away.

Adelphos

If you are booking exclusively at luxury hotels and paying cash for higher category rooms, not sure what you really get from much higher status

1) Your room type will likely get you better service than average on property
2) You can use programs like Amex Fine Hotels and Resorts or other Travel Agents to get breakfast, room upgrades, late checkout and other benefits
2) You already earn points based on spend, and your spend is high

escapefromphl

They could have reduced night targets for increased spend, but ten nights is too low. You would end up giving away Titanium for folks who decide to honeymoon at a Marriott property. 50 nights with the credit card is not that difficult, I’m almost half way there already.

lsquare

Same here. Marriott is a bit generous with the 15 EQN that comes with a credit card. Chase WoH only gives 5 nights!

JBord

Sure, there will be a few of those, but I think this is where a lot of people lose sight of the purpose of loyalty programs. They only cost Marriott if people use the benefits. So, a few examples:

- Someone who spends 100 nights at Marriotts @ $150/nt. provides $15k/year. Uses a lot of benefits, even a heavy user maybe gets $30/night, so it nets out to $120 or $12k.
- Someone who goes on their honeymoon for 10 nights and spends $1,200/night at a luxury property. $12k in revenue but uses no benefits on the trip. No offset. They gain status on the trip but aren't frequent travelers so don't really use the benefits. Later than year, they book a weekend getaway at a Marriott just because they'll get free breakfast for their status.

In both cases, these are valuable customers. And the second case is a win for Marriott because they get additional revenue that they likely wouldn't have earned otherwise.

This thread started out with the premise of weeding out gamers. People who spend a lot on honeymoon at a Marriott are NOT gamers. I'm not saying a spend-based program is the best thing for Marriott to do, but was originally responding to someone who thought that money spent at luxury properties should count more than money spent at low-end brands.

KRSW

No, they finally took a few steps back from their FAX machine and discovered something called the Internet after hearing about it from Al Gore. They then started reading. It's not like this stuff is only being discussed in the Trick It thread which can require some time to work out the obscurations. Even Marriott's laziest intern can see what's going on. BUT, that required getting new blood in there...people who were't stuck reading FAXes all day long and responding in longhand via quill pen.

At the same time, like all things Marriott in recent years, this does come off as ham-fisted.

Certainly booking a meeting room at a Courtyard for a couple of hours to get 10 nights isn't what they had in mind. Instead of tweaking it, Marriott stuffed it. What a missed opportunity! Other chains offer some pretty hefty kickbacks to meeting planners. One conference I attended last year charged attendees an extra $100 "facility fee" if they weren't staying at the conference hotel and didn't live within 50 miles of the conference. I seriously wonder what the kickback was to the conference at that point. I'm willing to bet it was >$100 per guest staying there.

I don't think there's anyone on FT who would argue against the changes on multiple credit cards. Yes, we'll ..... about it, but at the end of the day, we know that's not what was intended. At the same time, another lost opportunity: Allowing people to "buy" nights at the end of the year, buy up mid-year, or pay to retain status level. A few people in my office will be losing Plat this year and don't have time to do mattress runs. One was only 5 nights away.

Speculative bookings are something EVERYONE does, whether points or $. The hotels encourage this behavior by raising prices as you get closer to the stay date, and encourage people to book early. They'll even tell you "Book Early!" Fear Of Missing Out is huge in today's society. So... when hotels do this, they shouldn't be surprised when people book early and cancel/change later.

mayday23

I just checked out of that hotel in Melb and the lounge is amazing. Complementary alcohol, great staff and good food. If you get a chance, swing by the Park Hyatt and give Mr Walker a pet.

Super Mario

That type of business is absolutely not what the CC companies are looking for. Few companies, especially in travel, release such an offer for people to "break even," as is discussed to death here. Look at luxury programs like IHG's Royal Ambassador and American Express Centurion. They don't have a published entry level because they aren't looking for people to do just enough or try to game their way in, they want a specific type of clientele. That's what they also hope for with these premium CCs. Premium clientele that will use them for everyday spend for both companies to win on. To think that any CC company wants you to carry their hotel card only to use it to pay off the room, and burn through perks and credits, is laughable.

mayday23

Obviously not. Credit card companies want the customer that carries a balance over each month at 15% juice. They can't get only those consumers, so they have to find the middle ground of offering enough benefits to make a profit.

Until they stop offering the sign up bonuses, they'll have to keep dealing with it. I just signed up for AMX Centurion. I got 100K points for $450 yearly fee. I'm still making $550 the first year.

Like online sportsbooks a few years. Kept offering sign up bonuses and people would clear the bonus and move site to site to churn them.