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-   Marriott | Marriott Bonvoy (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy-766/)
-   -   Arne now outright lying: says Bonvoy preferred 8:1 over SPG/MR (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1994704-arne-now-outright-lying-says-bonvoy-preferred-8-1-over-spg-mr.html)

supatight80 Nov 10, 19 10:23 am


Originally Posted by margarita girl (Post 31721336)
His Royal Coldness and Eternal Defender of the Ambassador Program?

OMG MG! lol :D

I would have to say though if the group polled were all basic and low tier members, then bonvoy would be much better (ie. much larger footprint).

Would love to know what higher tier folks actually think of the new pogram. And it should be 50/50 MR and SPG members

And i dont know if there ever was such a thing as an "MR loyal" to begin with. My take was that pre-bonvoy MR was just convenient as there were MR properties wherever they went.

smokie Nov 10, 19 10:32 am

Lies, damned lies, and statistics...
 
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...88cd86e09e.png

ryw Nov 10, 19 10:42 am

Old MR also had phone agents who actually knew what they were doing and provided great service.

Itís worth noting that Marriott has a lot of customers (whether due to travel patterns, type of work, etc) who have more stays at limited service properties (Courtyard, Fairfield, AC, Springhill, etc). IMO we used to have more discussions about these properties in the old MR forum, while the new Bonvoy forum tends to focus on full service & aspirational properties. Just an observation that the forum posters may not have the same travel patterns as a lot of Bonvoy members.

IME, at these types of limited/select service properties Bonvoy experience is pretty much the same as pre-merger. And thereís usually no games to be played with upgrades with 10 different tiers of rooms. In fact, application of SNAs is a value-add for these properties, and the $10 F&B welcome gift for platinum+ members is a lot better than recent years when elites got nothing at Courtyards (despite a very very rocky rollout of that benefit).

As someone who has about half their nights from select/limited/long term service properties (and at the risk of being labeled one of those old MR lower middle management traveling simpleton types :P), I do think the Bonvoy program has brought increased value and benefits for stays at those properties.

Antarius Nov 10, 19 12:04 pm


Originally Posted by 3rdworldresident (Post 31721457)
I think people who prefer bonvoy are mostly from marriott side which is why the total number is much higher.

For people who came from SPG side (like me), bonvoy is a real downgrade.

I disagree. I was spg before Marriott.

Spg is like being a Virgin America loyalist. It works great, until it doesn't because they don't fly there. There is a limited audience that traveled to the major cities exclusively that spg worked great for, and that seems to be the vocal group with the pitchforks.

Simply put, if spg was so awesome and so sustainable, why did they get swallowed up? This is not to absolve Marriott of some of their slip ups and discourage them from trying to emulate aspects of spg that made their customers so loyal, but spg wasn't this omnipotent entity that it is purveyed to be.

supatight80 Nov 10, 19 12:44 pm


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31722055)
I disagree. I was spg before Marriott.

Spg is like being a Virgin America loyalist. It works great, until it doesn't because they don't fly there. There is a limited audience that traveled to the major cities exclusively that spg worked great for, and that seems to be the vocal group with the pitchforks.

Simply put, if spg was so awesome and so sustainable, why did they get swallowed up? This is not to absolve Marriott of some of their slip ups and discourage them from trying to emulate aspects of spg that made their customers so loyal, but spg wasn't this omnipotent entity that it is purveyed to be.

SPG and Starwood Hotels were 2 different things. Starwood (the hotels) was making money but not enough compared to competitors as it didnt have much of the "select" service properties and that is where growth was.

SPG was the loyalty program and let's face it, the vast majority knows it was much better than MReward or else Bonvoy wouldnt be almost the exact copy as SPG. Noboby is saying it is perfect.

The intent is there, but the problem with Bonvoy is the execution. It really makes me wonder how 8:1 prefers Bonvoy when CS and corporate culture now is absolutely dismal compared to SPG.

Anyways people were with MR mainly because of the footprint. SPG members were with Starwood for whole different reasons.

And i really wonder why people get offended when we criticize the program or MR, as if it is a reflection of themselves?

christianj Nov 10, 19 12:50 pm

Poll on a FB elite group is asking people if they participated in any sort of questionnaire or poll on this recently. Out of 168 respondents so far only 1 person said “yes” they were asked for their opinion on Bonvoy vs old MR and SPG.

kaizen7 Nov 10, 19 12:54 pm

There are possibility that people who claim Bonvoy better are those ex SPG elites who somehow got better treatment after Bonvoyed

CPH-Flyer Nov 10, 19 12:56 pm


Originally Posted by UA-NYC (Post 31721730)
Better TPs
75 night top tier
45k capped awards (not including RC)
no peak nights
better IT/customer service
better promotions
rollover nights
arguably easier LT status earning

to name a few...sure MR loyals can come up with more

As a non US based member, this is the exact opposite. Not having a credit card option made it virtually impossible to get any significant lifetime status with Marriott Rewards. But I was basically instant lifetime Platinum under the new program.

Adding the SNA benefits, an improvement of the breakfast benefits (though admittedly they could be better), getting some very nice additional options like St Regis. I am definitely in a better position than I was.

And while I did not get a survey, I would have responded with the new program being better than the old. An 8 to 1 ratio seems artificially high, and the survey was probably rigged for the outcome. But it does not mean that there are not a lot of people who are better off in the new program

Antarius Nov 10, 19 12:57 pm


Originally Posted by supatight80 (Post 31722185)
SPG and Starwood Hotels were 2 different things. Starwood (the hotels) was making money but not enough compared to competitors as it didnt have much of the "select" properties and that is where growth was.

SPG was the loyalty program and let's face it, the vast majority knows it was much better than MReward or else Bonvoy wouldnt be almost the exact copy as SPG. Noboby is saying it is perfect.

The intent is there, but the problem with Bonvoy is the execution. It really makes me wonder how 8:1 prefers Bonvoy when CS and corporate culture now is absolutely dismal compared to SPG.

Drawing a line between spg and Starwood Hotels is like arguing Bonvoy is different than Marriott. A semantic distinction of no value.

Select properties are a challenge because they may be located in remote areas, operate on lower margins etc. It is why you can routinely expect good service at a StR, but a CY or 4P is hit or miss. Also, I think a lot of legacy SPGers forget how horrible US Sheratons and 4Ps are; both property quality and sometimes management.


Originally Posted by supatight80 (Post 31722185)
Anyways people were with MR mainly because of the footprint. SPG members were with Starwood for whole different reasons

And this is the type of condescending statement that many of us find off putting.

Antarius Nov 10, 19 1:01 pm


Originally Posted by supatight80 (Post 31722185)
And i really wonder why people get offended when we criticize the program or MR, as if it is a reflection of themselves?

No one gets offended by the topic. As a former spg-er, I agree that SPG was a better program, just like Hyatt has a better one now. I also accept that it is what it is, and there are also advantages as a result of the merger.

What I object to is the tone used by many here - that anyone who is happy with Bonvoy is an idiot who didn't "understand" spg or wasn't part of the "special"-ness of spg etc. Like it is impossible to be happy with the end result and only a fool or someone needing a large hotel footprint would choose Marriott.

Visconti Nov 10, 19 1:04 pm

I'm not a hotels event coordinator, and spend way more on other things than my hotel bills. Just off the bat, earnings 2 points on general spend is already a 33% devaluation for what's basically the SPG legacy rebranded. It would be remarkable that an 8:1 ratio felt better about this, even if they were hotel professional events bookers, since I'd assume even they would be better off 3 points per on general spend from the original program.

The only you get 8:1 is poll those folks who never experienced and were never a part of Amex SPG rewards.

supatight80 Nov 10, 19 1:04 pm


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31722231)
Drawing a line between spg and Starwood Hotels is like arguing Bonvoy is different than Marriott. A semantic distinction of no value.

Select properties are a challenge because they may be located in remote areas, operate on lower margins etc. It is why you can routinely expect good service at a StR, but a CY or 4P is hit or miss. Also, I think a lot of legacy SPGers forget how horrible US Sheratons and 4Ps are; both property quality and sometimes management.



And this is the type of condescending statement that many of us find off putting.

Off putting?? Hey you mentioned it yourself "It is great unless it doesnt fly there" or whatever it was. And what is so off putting about that? You really think people were loyal to SPG because of its footprint?

Stop being insecure.

EuropeanPete Nov 10, 19 1:05 pm

I think itís understandable that some people find it hard to give the idea that Bonvoy is an improvement any merit. Itís an awful lot like SPG on paper, with better earning and more properties.... only everything is broken, and the program has withdrawn most customer service.

Antarius Nov 10, 19 1:06 pm


Originally Posted by supatight80 (Post 31722265)
Off putting?? Hey you mentioned it yourself "It is great unless it doesnt fly there" or whatever it was. And what is so off putting about that? You really think people were loyal to SPG because of its footprint?

Stop being insecure.

And you continue echoing your spg superiority. If Spg fit peoples travel patterns, then they got the best of both worlds, didn't work for everyone and partially as a result, there is no more spg or Starwood.

Hate it so much, move to Hilton or Hyatt. Stop .....ing and acting like we're idiots for not joining the complain fest.

Antarius Nov 10, 19 1:10 pm


Originally Posted by EuropeanPete (Post 31722270)
I think itís understandable that some people find it hard to give the idea that Bonvoy is an improvement any merit. Itís an awful lot like SPG on paper, with better earning and more properties.... only everything is broken, and the program has withdrawn most customer service.

The issue is, that these people refuse to accept that there may be others (and many others) that do find it an improvement.

I'm not arguing that everyone must love Bonvoy - we have options such as Hyatt, Hilton and IHG for a reason. But the group that find it hard to give Marriott any merit are insistently shouting down anyone who might be happy with the outcome.


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