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-   -   Arne now outright lying: says Bonvoy preferred 8:1 over SPG/MR (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1994704-arne-now-outright-lying-says-bonvoy-preferred-8-1-over-spg-mr.html)

UA-NYC Nov 9, 19 3:09 pm

The spread of the responses in this thread basically proves my point @:-)

GUWonder Nov 9, 19 5:10 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 31719729)
A few misleading tweets from Elon Musk regarding Tesla sort of caught the SEC's attention!

But, the larger point is that if OP is correct, not only is this an SEC matter, but oodles of class action plaintiffs lawyers would be ahead of OP and FT. And they are not.

Completely different kind of dynamic from Tesla.

And about the second paragraph above excluding its last sentence, your suggested outcome is anything but a certain outcome even were it certain that the OP is correct.

EuropeanPete Nov 9, 19 5:29 pm


Originally Posted by HHQX888 (Post 31719695)
Ok, Arne 8:1 - but why I see on Bonvoy TV promo chanel most recordings is from old SPG hotels ??? You don't like your old hotels or you like SPG vibe ???

Given how tight Marriott is, I really can't see them employing a media agency which can turn the Fairfield LaGuardia into an aspirational story.

Antarius Nov 9, 19 6:35 pm


Originally Posted by UA-NYC (Post 31719739)
The spread of the responses in this thread basically proves my point @:-)

No it doesn't. If you want to complain about survey methodology and self-selecting groups, FT cannot be cited.

UA-NYC Nov 9, 19 6:52 pm

Getting 90% of people to agree on any single A vs B comparison in just about any type of survey is nearly impossible.

The main ways to do it are to rig either the sample selection or ask and/or report heavily biased questions.

You could probably get 90% if you only survey and report on people with the last name Marriott.

Newman Nov 9, 19 7:42 pm


Originally Posted by UA-NYC (Post 31720237)
Getting 90% of people to agree on any single A vs B comparison in just about any type of survey is nearly impossible.

The main ways to do it are to rig either the sample selection or ask and/or report heavily biased questions.

You could probably get 90% if you only survey and report on people with the last name Marriott.

I'll ask again, what evidence do you have that the questions were biased and polling was rigged? If you have none other than your own dislike of Bonvoy, and assume the rest of the world agrees with you, then you have slandered Arne Sorenson.


Originally Posted by UA-NYC (Post 31717353)
And - while legacy Marriott members now have new benefits well beyond they could have ever dreamed of - they also 1) have seen 50-100% point inflation, 2) IT/CS issues not apparently observed in the legacy program, 3) Plats now getting layered by Ambassadors, 4) downgrade in UA matching benefits for 50 night stayers, etc

A mixed bad, maybe a net positive overall - a claimed 8:1 preference ratio, however, is beyond the pale

50-100% point inflation? Really? over how long of a time? 20 years? 30 years? Compared to other hotel chains, Marriott point valuation gives its members better bang for the buck.... by far.

IT/CS issues not apparently not observed in the legacy program? Really? Sure there were glitches, but Marriott has made the fixes in an expeditious manner. As a former Continental Airlines high flyer I will tell you that the Marriott/Sheraton/Ritz Carlton merger has gone far smoother than the Continental/United merger.

Based on my own circles of friends/family/co-workers who travel frequently, my guess would have been the ratio of satisfied Bonvoy members to be at least 30 to 1 or 40 to 1.

Newman

Newman Nov 9, 19 7:43 pm


Originally Posted by hotelboy (Post 31718663)
Why is this so hard to believe? It is 100% inappropriate to accuse our Lord and Savior Arne of lying without any evidence. You may disagree with the poll's findings as you have stated but there is no evidence that the numbers are false. State that you disagree and move on to Hilton where the grass may not be any greener.

Amen to that, brother.......

Newman

Visconti Nov 10, 19 12:38 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31719047)
SEC enforcement about such things is a joke when it comes to the biggest industry players. There is no way that even a misleading marketing statement about this from the Marriott CEO would lead to the SEC doing anything that materially hits Marriott's CEO or earnings.

Right. The SEC only enforce the rules with small players, and, even then, brass will always remind the rank and file to "be polite and nice" to any Company and Firm that really matters. Their model is pretty simple, better to answer for the blow-up than be accused/associated with being the catalyst for the blow up, since angry voters may drive them out of existence, e.g., Madoff, Enron, and when this cycle rolls over, many more that will shock general public, in my view.

While I'm not suggesting Arne is being less than candid here, I do find the 8:1 ratio impossible to fathom without some kind of caveat, such as MSP's out of 8 persons polled and all who work in his Exec office, or something along those lines. However, I'll offer this. While hindsight is 20/20, one of the best FT-travel decisions I've ever made was to "panic" and abandon SPG for Hyatt (the Diamond match, probably the only time Twitter was ever beneficial for me) immediately without taking the time to see how things played out, and never looking back; generally, it's always better to be the first out the door. Also, if I recall, on FT the overwhelming majority of SPG folks were negative on this BO, while the MAR folks were positive, which, in my view, speaks volumes. Finally, the Amex SPG program was one of the greatest rewards program that ever was, and this completely killed it.

While still Plat Elite or whatever, Bonvoy's experience has been unique, in that I've experienced charges for cancelled reservations, which I can't ever recall ever experiencing with any other hotel outfit.

paolo64 Nov 10, 19 3:13 am

It is quite plausible that many former MR members are relatively pleased with the merged entity ( ..particularly those earning status via real hotel stays v fake meetings scams) but the 8/1 ratio doesn’t have a ring of truth about it. It’s noteworthy that not a single former SPG member reports getting a survey ( not here, not on the blogs...yet hundreds report NOT getting it).
In the pre-merger days, Arne talked about the passion of SPG loyalists, and his desire to replicate that in the new program. It’s a mega fail in that regard: MR folks might be reasonably happy with being thrown a few bones but I don’t know a single SPG person who’s ‘passionate’ about the New Deal.

MePlatPremier Nov 10, 19 6:55 am


Originally Posted by Newman (Post 31720337)
I'll ask again, what evidence do you have that the questions were biased and polling was rigged? If you have none other than your own dislike of Bonvoy, and assume the rest of the world agrees with you, then you have slandered Arne Sorenson.



50-100% point inflation? Really? over how long of a time? 20 years? 30 years? Compared to other hotel chains, Marriott point valuation gives its members better bang for the buck.... by far.

IT/CS issues not apparently not observed in the legacy program? Really? Sure there were glitches, but Marriott has made the fixes in an expeditious manner. As a former Continental Airlines high flyer I will tell you that the Marriott/Sheraton/Ritz Carlton merger has gone far smoother than the Continental/United merger.

Based on my own circles of friends/family/co-workers who travel frequently, my guess would have been the ratio of satisfied Bonvoy members to be at least 30 to 1 or 40 to 1.

Newman

The merger and its aftermath were not without its problems, and some are indeed cause for big concerns regarding the way the company might be heading (v.g. the way properly cancelled reservations are suddenly reactivated by the IT systems and then members charged no-show fees).

However, this forum has long ceased to partake in any type of rational and logical discourse on this topic. Itís futile to try argue any point that does not validate a community-reinforced Pavlovian disposition to react the same and exact way to external stimuli. Some people might have had something to lose with the new program (the very generous SPG Amex points, for instance) ó they will never tolerate or condone any type of expression of opinion on this forum by people who otherwise believe the new program has a better outcome for their particular personal situations and travel patterns. They will insult, name-call, troll, bully and cyberstalk whoever dares to question their now very-well established narrative that SPG was a mythical god-like entity where everything was perfect and everyone was happy and merry and where Bonvoy is just something just short of true hell on Earth.

UA-NYC Nov 10, 19 7:12 am

SPG wasnít perfect. Bonvoy has a lot of benefits. No need to go generating straw men.

The point remains - nothing gets 90% agreement. Nothing. This merger has had endless ups and downs and is in no position to generate near unanimous sentiment on anything.

The leader of the company misrepresenting data or consumer response continues to be a joke. Have some humility for gods sake already.

3rdworldresident Nov 10, 19 8:05 am

I think people who prefer bonvoy are mostly from marriott side which is why the total number is much higher.

For people who came from SPG side (like me), bonvoy is a real downgrade.

HHonors OUTSIDER Nov 10, 19 8:24 am


Originally Posted by 3rdworldresident (Post 31721457)
I think people who prefer bonvoy are mostly from marriott side which is why the total number is much higher.

For people who came from SPG side (like me), bonvoy is a real downgrade.

I agree coming from the SPG side the new Marriott program is a downgrade. Coming from the old Marriott Rewards side I agree with VickiSoCal I prefer the old Marriott Reward with one exception that I can think of: I find value in using SNAís at Residence Inns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VickiSoCal
Do I prefer Bonvoy to Marriot Rewards the day before the merger became final? Yes. Do I prefer it to Marriott Rewards of 6 or 7 years ago, absolutely not.

margarita girl Nov 10, 19 9:53 am


Originally Posted by HHonors OUTSIDER (Post 31721492)
I agree coming from the SPG side the new Marriott program is a downgrade. Coming from the old Marriott Rewards side I agree with VickiSoCal I prefer the old Marriott Reward with one exception that I can think of: I find value in using SNAís at Residence Inns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VickiSoCal
Do I prefer Bonvoy to Marriot Rewards the day before the merger became final? Yes. Do I prefer it to Marriott Rewards of 6 or 7 years ago, absolutely not.

What did the old Marriott program offer that you don't get today?

UA-NYC Nov 10, 19 10:01 am

Better TPs
75 night top tier
45k capped awards (not including RC)
no peak nights
better IT/customer service
better promotions
rollover nights
arguably easier LT status earning

to name a few...sure MR loyals can come up with more


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