Smoking Cleaning Fee
Aug 29, 2019, 6:59 pm
#61
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum, SPG
Posts: 123
To all those who claim the OP will lose a chargeback: As someone who works in the hotel industry, I've seen it the other way. Almost every time, the bank will side with the cardholder and chargeback the hotel. Very difficult to win this as the bank always falls back on: "cardholder did not authorize the charge"
Aug 29, 2019, 7:08 pm
#62
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rolling Lakes Yacht Club
Posts: 4,985
So here's some more thoughts....
There were 4 of us on the balcony and who shared one joint. While this is apparently not permitted by state law, this is not what we were being charged with. While I did participate in this activity, I am absolutely not a smoker. I think I've smoked probably 10 cigarettes in my life and marijuana even less often. I absolutely do understand how the smell of smoke can permeate. There is absolutely no way that the room required any deep cleaning. By the time security showed up we had long finished smoking. Had I lied they would have never been able to prove that we had smoked on their balcony as their was no evidence. Security was annoyed because they insisted we surrender all of our marijuana but we had none to surrender. Anyone on here can make whatever assumptions they want about what actually happened that night, but because nobody here has any say in the final outcome of this, I see no reason why I should lie. We were very quiet and it wasn't even 10PM.
There were 4 of us on the balcony and who shared one joint. While this is apparently not permitted by state law, this is not what we were being charged with. While I did participate in this activity, I am absolutely not a smoker. I think I've smoked probably 10 cigarettes in my life and marijuana even less often. I absolutely do understand how the smell of smoke can permeate. There is absolutely no way that the room required any deep cleaning. By the time security showed up we had long finished smoking. Had I lied they would have never been able to prove that we had smoked on their balcony as their was no evidence. Security was annoyed because they insisted we surrender all of our marijuana but we had none to surrender. Anyone on here can make whatever assumptions they want about what actually happened that night, but because nobody here has any say in the final outcome of this, I see no reason why I should lie. We were very quiet and it wasn't even 10PM.
You appear to stay in enough sway with Marriott's. Work the issue with the property, if not dispute.
In the future, I can only advise that Aria, Mandalay, and Bellagio seem more lenient based on the smells in the hallways
Aug 29, 2019, 7:18 pm
#63
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 94
Unless the hotel has a signed admission from the OP, they have no proof of any smell or any smoking. Sure security was there, who's going to take securities word over their cardholder? Cardholder just has to say security came and harassed us trying to get us to say we were smoking in the room which we were not, and then we got this charge. Unless you have a smell sample lol or actual smoking product evidence in the room no way the hotel wins
Aug 29, 2019, 9:13 pm
#64
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AS MVPG100K, Marriott Marriott Titanium Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 7,263
As a light drinker nothing pisses me off more than loud obnoxious inebriated partygoers who reek of alcohol and vomit in their rooms. I’m sorry but I have zero sympathy for inebriated people.
drink off property if you must.
Consider in your righteousness that you may be affecting other people too with actions that others may find offensive.
Perhaps we should just ban cigarettes and go back to prohibition. At least our loved ones won't die from smoking related illnessess or drunk drivers.
James
Aug 29, 2019, 9:29 pm
#65
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
OT/
Must say as an ex smoker of 11 years, I do like to stand downwind of a current smoker from time to time
/OT
Must say as an ex smoker of 11 years, I do like to stand downwind of a current smoker from time to time
/OT
Aug 30, 2019, 12:42 am
#66
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: Don't you know who I am????
Posts: 297
Smoking - Ashtrays
Was there any other language about smoking other than this from their website (and referred to above)?:
If there wasn't any other language, and unless you signed something agreeing to something else, I'd charge it back. The hotel could have banned smoking on its balconies but it didn't; instead it explicitly only banned smoking in its guest rooms. Apparently it went even further and actually provided ashtrays on the balcony. No way they don't know that smoke smell will drift into the rooms when people smoke on their balconies, regardless of the product being smoked.
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If there wasn't any other language, and unless you signed something agreeing to something else, I'd charge it back. The hotel could have banned smoking on its balconies but it didn't; instead it explicitly only banned smoking in its guest rooms. Apparently it went even further and actually provided ashtrays on the balcony. No way they don't know that smoke smell will drift into the rooms when people smoke on their balconies, regardless of the product being smoked.
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Likewise smoking prohibitions on aircraft often only specifically mention the restrooms or the cabin, it is assumed that the galley, aisles, etc are included in that space, much as a "Guest Room" could be construed to include all areas accessible to the guest (bathroom, closets, kitchen, balcony, etc).
Providing an ashtray may be be properties effort to reduce damage from a prohibited, but still common activity, it would not be considered tacit approval of such activity, that would be governed by the lodging contract.
Those are all questions best answered (though probably not economically) in a legal proceeding.
Aug 30, 2019, 12:45 am
#67
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SBP
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Titanium, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 533
Not weighing in on either side here, but the mere provision of an ashtray would not in itself authorize smoking. Most travelers here I'm sure have noticed that all commercial aircraft, even those produced after smoking was banned, still have an ashtray of some sort. In the US, the FAA recognized that its better to provide an ashtray (or often just a fold out "snuffer" to accommodate a clearly prohibited activity, than to have the FAs have extinguish smoldering trash bins.
Likewise smoking prohibitions on aircraft often only specifically mention the restrooms or the cabin, it is assumed that the galley, aisles, etc are included in that space, much as a "Guest Room" could be construed to include all areas accessible to the guest (bathroom, closets, kitchen, balcony, etc).
Providing an ashtray may be be properties effort to reduce damage from a prohibited, but still common activity, it would not be considered tacit approval of such activity, that would be governed by the lodging contract.
Those are all questions best answered (though probably not economically) in a legal proceeding.
Likewise smoking prohibitions on aircraft often only specifically mention the restrooms or the cabin, it is assumed that the galley, aisles, etc are included in that space, much as a "Guest Room" could be construed to include all areas accessible to the guest (bathroom, closets, kitchen, balcony, etc).
Providing an ashtray may be be properties effort to reduce damage from a prohibited, but still common activity, it would not be considered tacit approval of such activity, that would be governed by the lodging contract.
Those are all questions best answered (though probably not economically) in a legal proceeding.
Aug 30, 2019, 1:02 am
#68
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 902
To all those who claim the OP will lose a chargeback: As someone who works in the hotel industry, I've seen it the other way. Almost every time, the bank will side with the cardholder and chargeback the hotel. Very difficult to win this as the bank always falls back on: "cardholder did not authorize the charge"
In Europe and Asia, and practically anywhere in the world outside NA, nobody is allowed to check-in without signing a guest registration form which usually includes language to the effect of authorizing the hotel to charge the cc on file for any expenses and fees incurred during the stay. Also, when checking in on the Bonvoy app with the keyless function language to the same effect is also clearly present. Again, this language would also be found at most properties for guests filling out the express check-out forms. But, although I do not have the experience of disputing hotel cc charges, if I were to guess I would say hotels got their backs pretty much covered. But I’m just guessing. However, even if the chargeback clears, the hotel is not excluded from trying to collect the fee through other means.
Aug 30, 2019, 1:50 am
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
Oh, well, at least one place we've stayed made the rules clear enough, both on the hallways and in-room.
Aug 30, 2019, 4:54 am
#70
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat 100/LT Gold, Marriott Plat, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,988
Sucks that the other guest was such a buzzkill. It sounds like pure security retribution to me - someone thought you were hiding something or gave them attitude and decided to be a petty tyrant. Classic Vegas security thug behavior.
You should totally pursue this with the hotel.
And, this is why I leave shortly thereafter if I smoke green on the balcony in a room. Don't want them to come find me or put it on me.
I find it ridiculous that this hotel - which allows smoking in its lobby, casino, etc. - has such an issue with any type of smoke, cig or joint, on their balcony. For the others complaining about tobacco smoke - worry about what everyone is carrying upstairs from the casino.
And, green smell lingers much less than tobacco smoke. I find it completely unbelievable that 1 joint, even if smoked inside, would linger enough the next day for the Housekeeper to even smell anything. Those who say otherwise just don't have personal experience and believe everything they see on TV.
You should totally pursue this with the hotel.
And, this is why I leave shortly thereafter if I smoke green on the balcony in a room. Don't want them to come find me or put it on me.
I find it ridiculous that this hotel - which allows smoking in its lobby, casino, etc. - has such an issue with any type of smoke, cig or joint, on their balcony. For the others complaining about tobacco smoke - worry about what everyone is carrying upstairs from the casino.
And, green smell lingers much less than tobacco smoke. I find it completely unbelievable that 1 joint, even if smoked inside, would linger enough the next day for the Housekeeper to even smell anything. Those who say otherwise just don't have personal experience and believe everything they see on TV.
Aug 30, 2019, 6:46 am
#71
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
[left]But the transaction was authorized. I am quite sure the smoking cleaning is a clearly disclosed fee in that property and that, either at check in or during express checkout, the guest authorized the property to charge his/her cc for any fees and expenses s/he incurred during the stay. So, this is not an unauthorized cc transaction.
Aug 30, 2019, 6:47 am
#72
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
I recently had a stay at the Cosmopolitan Las Vegas. My room had a balcony which had ash trays. Several people were noted to be smoking on the balcony. Security came to our room as people were complaining about our smoking and asked us to stop or we would be evicted from the room. While I did not think we were being particularly loud, we agreed to stop and this seemed to be a non-issue. Today I received a copy of my bill and I was charged $566.90 for a "housekeeping deep clean smoking fee per security". To me this fee seems outrageous, even if we were smoking in the room which we were not. Is there any recourse I might have?
Aug 30, 2019, 6:52 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
But there is always the risk of being evicted, so I haven’t dared try it. Shame really, as there are quite a few US locations we’d really like to stay, if we could only find somewhere to stay where we could smoke on the balcony.
Aug 30, 2019, 6:54 am
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,482
To all those who claim the OP will lose a chargeback: As someone who works in the hotel industry, I've seen it the other way. Almost every time, the bank will side with the cardholder and chargeback the hotel. Very difficult to win this as the bank always falls back on: "cardholder did not authorize the charge"
Note I never use mini bar and I don't drink alcohol, even with open bar.
Aug 30, 2019, 7:55 am
#75
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Unless the hotel has a signed admission from the OP, they have no proof of any smell or any smoking. Sure security was there, who's going to take securities word over their cardholder? Cardholder just has to say security came and harassed us trying to get us to say we were smoking in the room which we were not, and then we got this charge. Unless you have a smell sample lol or actual smoking product evidence in the room no way the hotel wins
The property is not suing OP in a court where it must prove anything.
You can bet that a LAS property such as this deals with petty chargeback issues multiple times per day and has providing the documentation down to a science.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Including the odor.