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-   -   Marriott to Eliminate Single-use Toiletry Bottles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1984883-marriott-eliminate-single-use-toiletry-bottles.html)

Obsidian Sep 4, 19 1:57 am

I live out of courtyards. Love the tea tree products and also use them at home. I don't understand all this fuss about mold and tampering. It's soap..and you're in the shower...

KRSW Sep 4, 19 2:54 am


Originally Posted by Cathay Dragon 666 (Post 31472302)
From the hotel side, this will not save them money but cost them more. Studies has shown with little bottles, most people don't ask for extras but conserves what they use.

It's funny you mention this -- I just thought the same thing this weekend whilst staying at a Courtyard. I noticed that I used quite a bit more soap/shampoo from the wall-mounted dispensers than I do from the small bottles. This is basic human behavior -- when we think something is in short supply, we conserve.


Originally Posted by chipmaster (Post 31473798)
Shower with lots of water not clean enough? What you been sleeping in, or eating and sweating????

Eh...have you had to use the new ultra-low-flow showerheads being installed at some of the newer properties? I've stayed at a few where the sink had better flow than the shower. Maintenance confirmed this was functioning as designed.


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31473907)
In fact, the prevalence of hand sanitizers probably is worse for antibiotic resistance (as in creates more) than anything else.

Even worse is when these hand sanitizers appear in hospitals. I was visiting a relative in the hospital. They had "infection control protocols" in effect for their case, requiring masks & gowns/gloves for all visitors/staff. Did any of the staff wash their hands? NOPE. Instead they just spritzed some hand sanitizer. Some of them didn't even bother using gloves. I rang up their head of nursing and asked if they had a problem with C.difficile at their facility. Yes. Gee, I wonder why. (C.diff is a sporulating bacterium, thus is completely unfazed by the hand sanitizers.)


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31475631)
I absolutely do have a choice. I can stay elsewhere. I can bring my own travel size products. I can request the large ones be replaced with new ones on arrival.

I'd love to bring my own stuff, but the TSA says I have no choice.


Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer (Post 31479050)
How does the motion sensor work when you sleep?

Depends on how they're installed. One of the worst stays I had with these was at a Hilton where the motion sensor was attached in-line with the thermostat. No logic at all other than a timer. After an hour of no motion it'd kill power to the thermostat. After the first miserable night and the property insisting there was no override, I popped the cover on it and shorted the wires.

Fortunately the Marriott properties I've stayed with HVAC motion sensors have some logic in them and door sensors. IF the door opens AND motion is detected later, room = occupied. IF door opens AND NO motion is detected, room = unoccupied. Also quite fortunate -- these are easy to bypass by using the VIP mode or just simply removing the batteries from the door sensor. I noticed someone beat me to the door sensor at the Courtyard this weekend, which was fantastic -- a nice, dry, cool room when the rest of the property was on the damp side. As an aside, all of these "energy saving" HVAC systems fail to account for humidity, which is absolutely key to human comfort. Whether in Florida or the Pacific NW, the unoccupied mode of these systems makes room absolutely disgustingly humid when the guest returns. So what does the guest do? Turn down the thermostat even lower. So much for the energy savings. Maybe it works better in other climates.

I also have encountered the lighting/outlet motion sensors and really disliked how they were implemented -- auto on / off. Nothing like you or your partner getting out of bed in the middle of the night and having the hallway & bathroom lights come on full blast. Equally fun when you find your mobile devices didn't charge because the outlets were automatically turned off.


Originally Posted by C17PSGR (Post 31482672)
As a practical matter, a lot of environmental initiatives make our lives more difficult

Or actually cause more problems than they solve. The building department required motion sensors on all light switches in one of our new offices. Guess what? Those motion sensors use almost as much electricity as the LED lights do, and do so 24/7. The USA's EPA is the reason the engine in my current car only gets 32-40MPG instead of the 85MPG engine I wanted to put in it. Paper straws are just as bad, if not worse, for the environment than plastic straws.


Originally Posted by C17PSGR (Post 31486612)
Getting rid of plastic bottles is the way of the world. The problem, of course, is that getting rid of them in North America, Europe, Australia, and Japan won't really solve the plastic bottle problem.

Yep. As the map shows, the USA's use and proper disposal of plastic means it doesn't make a hill of beans difference compared to what other countries in the world do.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...65ea3ea464.jpg

GUWonder Sep 4, 19 3:30 am

A bunch of hotels that go with the move to wall-mounted toiletry dispensers in hotel rooms’ bathrooms have throttled the shower water flow in standard rooms while letting the suites and deluxe rooms go without such extreme throttling of water.

My portable solution: remove the shower head fixture/connector. It’s bad enough that I’m considering traveling with my own handheld shower fixture, but I also have to wait to see if TSA or some other airport security screener will make a fuss about that. :D

KRSW Sep 4, 19 3:45 am

I know I promised to get ahold of an empty bottle, but that didn't happen. I overslept the one day, and hotel staff were scurrying around with hurricane preparation.

BUT, one of the bottles was loose, so I had a look. First discovery was that the pump is not an integral part of the bottle, so I assume they get reused. I didn't have a scale with me and the bottle was half full, so I couldn't get a good weight from it.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...f04b4fb01d.jpg

The hotel room was VERY clean...but even with that, the dispensers still had plenty of mold growing on them. Looking at the design, I'm not surprised. Lots of cracks/crevices which they could have made rounded and smooth to reduce areas where mold could grow.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...71a6d9428f.jpg

brittex Sep 4, 19 7:03 am

Couple of thoughts:
  • I never use the dispensers because I had just assumed they might be grimy
  • Until this thread I had never thought to actually look at the bottom of the dispenser. This was the very first time I bothered
  • Now, I could be very unlucky. But my initial reaction is that my assumptions re cleanliness are borne out
There are hotels that I tend to avoid because of their use of dispensers
  • I dislike and avoid Alofts for a lot of reasons, but this is one of the reasons
  • There is a particular Meridien that I otherwise really like, but their use of dispensers always gives me pause. I always end up seeing what else is available nearby with a comparable rate. If there were no dispensers, it would be Meridien every time
Is the use of dispensers the best./only way to meet whatever green PR goals the chain has
  • Using larger bottles. Some hotels do this, and I have zero problems making a single bottle last the duration of a stay. I'll ask for another if I run out
  • Using bio degradable packaging

Finally, from a marketing angle; I have bought Bliss products based on experience at the W. This does seem like a lost opportunity

txpenny Sep 4, 19 7:53 am


Originally Posted by Gig103 (Post 31466328)
It would not obviate the "whole point" any more than not removing bottles from premium brands does. As a whole, millions of pounds of landfill would still be eliminated. For it to obviate the point would require a majority of customers going down and requesting the bottles, and if that is the case then it shows a clear will by the customers - also a win.

Remember too that the disposable razors, combs, and toothbrushes are already single use plastic.

Not to argue your statement, but when did combs become single use (this coming from a bald guy)?

Count me among those who welcome the change with toiletries. My business hotel of choice switched to refillable bottles mounted in the shower about a year ago. The only downside was the adjustment period for the hotel staff remembering to refill reusable bottles (shower gel, in my case - not shampoo). After a couple of months, the bottles have always been full.

JayeJ Sep 4, 19 8:35 am


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31488600)
...
Depends on how they're installed. One of the worst stays I had with these was at a Hilton where the motion sensor was attached in-line with the thermostat. No logic at all other than a timer. After an hour of no motion it'd kill power to the thermostat. After the first miserable night and the property insisting there was no override, I popped the cover on it and shorted the wires.

Fortunately the Marriott properties I've stayed with HVAC motion sensors have some logic in them and door sensors. IF the door opens AND motion is detected later, room = occupied. IF door opens AND NO motion is detected, room = unoccupied. Also quite fortunate -- these are easy to bypass by using the VIP mode or just simply removing the batteries from the door sensor. I noticed someone beat me to the door sensor at the Courtyard this weekend, which was fantastic -- a nice, dry, cool room when the rest of the property was on the damp side. As an aside, all of these "energy saving" HVAC systems fail to account for humidity, which is absolutely key to human comfort. Whether in Florida or the Pacific NW, the unoccupied mode of these systems makes room absolutely disgustingly humid when the guest returns. So what does the guest do? Turn down the thermostat even lower. So much for the energy savings. Maybe it works better in other climates.

I also have encountered the lighting/outlet motion sensors and really disliked how they were implemented -- auto on / off. Nothing like you or your partner getting out of bed in the middle of the night and having the hallway & bathroom lights come on full blast. Equally fun when you find your mobile devices didn't charge because the outlets were automatically turned off.

Can you do a YouTube video demonstrating how to override? Removing batteries from doors? The only thing I've figured out is to leave a blank card in the slot to keep everything working while I've left the room.

Gig103 Sep 4, 19 10:09 am


Originally Posted by txpenny (Post 31489278)
Not to argue your statement, but when did combs become single use (this coming from a bald guy)?

Maybe my examples would have been more accurate to say 'single stay' but I've never felt a complimentary comb, razor, or toothbrush worth taking home with me.


Oh and on the broader topic, one blog's take on the issue led with the headline "Marriott prevents guests from stealing millions of shampoo bottles a year" which I thought was laughable because we are paying for them as part of the room rate. I did not succumb to their pathetic clickbait to see the rest of their "argument" or "report".

s0ssos Sep 5, 19 12:54 am


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31488600)
Yep. As the map shows, the USA's use and proper disposal of plastic means it doesn't make a hill of beans difference compared to what other countries in the world do.

I'm not sure the US has proper disposal of plastic:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...k2q-story.html
One has to just stop making the plastic.

GUWonder Sep 5, 19 3:14 am


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31492233)
I'm not sure the US has proper disposal of plastic:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...k2q-story.html
One has to just stop making the plastic.

A “war on (petrochemical-based) plastics” gets won by stopping to make plastic? Not likely. Plastic gets made because of the demand for it, and the demand for it seems to not be diminishing as much as it’s been growing in recent decades despite the waste/trash issues plastic has. And a large part of the global demand growth for plastics is due to the nature of rising economic tides in the poorer parts of the world.

This Marriott “save the world” measure is a drop in the bucket for the world, but it’s a world of big money for Marriott hotels.

CPH-Flyer Sep 5, 19 6:33 am


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31492233)
I'm not sure the US has proper disposal of plastic:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...k2q-story.html
One has to just stop making the plastic.

Yeah, plastic disposal in the US is not great,

But just stopping making it is a bit too much of a sweet dream at the moment. Viable alternatives needs to be developed. However, that should not stop anyone from removing unnecessary plastic use, or reduce current use.

And while Marriott's change here may just be a drop in the bucket in some peoples' view. I'll gladly support the drops of change. In a Four Points right now, and the dispensers are absolutely OK. If they chose the same solution for my next St Regis stay, I'd be a bit miffed. But I am sure they can find a nice solution for a St R as well.

KRSW Sep 5, 19 12:20 pm


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31492233)
One has to just stop making the plastic.

I hope you never end up in a hospital... everything there is single-use plastic these days, wrapped in multiple layers of single use plastic. We used to practice medicine just fine before all of this, so there obviously has to be a way to reduce this without detrimental effects. As far as people being pigs and tossing their junk everywhere, people have been doing this since the dawn of man.

I'm actually a bit more sensitive to the issue of trash/waste than most people as I don't have garbage service at one of my homes. Whatever I bring in either has to go down the drain or I have to drag it to the office in my own car. You become acutely aware of how excessive packaging is when you're dragging it all out by yourself.

At the same time I'm with GUWonder on this -- plastics exist because people want them. Governments & activists trying to force their holier-than-thou beliefs upon others is just bad policy, especially when equivalent alternatives don't exist. Paper straws are terrible and more wasteful/more polluting than the plastic straws they're replacing. I have coworkers who get intestinal distress when drinking tap water in certain US cities. We did try a blind test with them (refilled one of their bottles) and indeed the reaction was real. For them, bottled water means the difference between a productive trip and a tour of loos or possible clinic visit.

GUWonder Sep 5, 19 2:24 pm

I routinely sort and/or schlep 10+ categories of garbage/recycling — even removing the plastic parts from paper containers. And that’s all voluntary on my part, as the general waste category is just accepted as is by the waste management parties. And yet I don’t want a ban on all plastic and don’t welcome Marriott’s self-serving ways being done under cover of “save the world” when the drop in the bucket is more than offset by other stuff Marriott does to maximize what it can get out of its customers’ money.

jacca83 Sep 5, 19 6:34 pm

Oh the Ritz Carlton shower is gonna look real classy with big, refillable soap dispensers.

CPH-Flyer Sep 5, 19 7:37 pm


Originally Posted by jacca83 (Post 31495309)
Oh the Ritz Carlton shower is gonna look real classy with big, refillable soap dispensers.

Shower gel in big bottles don't automatically look terrible

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...d4614666bb.jpg

Not that I expect Ritz Carlton to go for my personal go to option, but if they bother thinking a out design it can look elegant.

It is not like the current Purple Water tiny bottles are very elegant. Recognisable, I like the product, but not exactly elegant.

Antarius Sep 5, 19 9:03 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31492467)


A “war on (petrochemical-based) plastics” gets won by stopping to make plastic? Not likely. Plastic gets made because of the demand for it, and the demand for it seems to not be diminishing as much as it’s been growing in recent decades despite the waste/trash issues plastic has. And a large part of the global demand growth for plastics is due to the nature of rising economic tides in the poorer parts of the world.

This Marriott “save the world” measure is a drop in the bucket for the world, but it’s a world of big money for Marriott hotels.

Everyone says that it is just a drop in the bucket, and doesnt do anything.

Everything has to start somewhere.

GUWonder Sep 6, 19 7:44 am


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31495626)
Everyone says that it is just a drop in the bucket, and doesnt do anything.

Do you really believe what you typed above?

I certainly know that not everyone says it doesn’t do anything. Even the critics of the Marriott move say it does something — whether or not it is a drop in the bucket to “save the world”.

Marriott starts (and ends) with “save the world”
measures where it saves money for Marriott hotels and/or can be spun by Marriott to do what Marriott wants to do, all while not starting where it may directly cost Marriott more money but be more than the drop in the plastic bucket that Marriott is making with this hotel toiletries move.

cmd320 Sep 6, 19 7:48 am


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31495626)
Everyone says that it is just a drop in the bucket, and doesnt do anything.

Everything has to start somewhere.

In this case, if Marriott were serious about this then why not switch to bioplastics for all bath amenities?

slpybear Sep 6, 19 7:54 am

This thread is sufficient evidence that Large corporations are in a "no-win" situation in many areas, including environmental stewardship.

nacho Sep 6, 19 12:01 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31496854)
In this case, if Marriott were serious about this then why not switch to bioplastics for all bath amenities?

What about all the plastic used during free breakfast in RI, SHS, FFI, TPS? I think those are much worse than the small bottles. I re-use them (brought them up to the room and wash them and bring them at breakfast the next day) and my family really hate me for doing that because they think it's troublesome and it looks weird. I brought them home and use them until they break, they are super durable and throwing them away after one use it just crazy.

I re-use the small bottles too - I put my own shampoo/conditioners in them and bring them to the gym/swimming etc.

cmd320 Sep 6, 19 12:46 pm


Originally Posted by nacho (Post 31497952)
What about all the plastic used during free breakfast in RI, SHS, FFI, TPS? I think those are much worse than the small bottles. I re-use them (brought them up to the room and wash them and bring them at breakfast the next day) and my family really hate me for doing that because they think it's troublesome and it looks weird. I brought them home and use them until they break, they are super durable and throwing them away after one use it just crazy.

I re-use the small bottles too - I put my own shampoo/conditioners in them and bring them to the gym/swimming etc.

I rarely stay at these properties however in general this is a bad idea. Plastics designed for a single use should not be reused as their coating will degrade through repeated uses/washes and the chemicals in the plastic can leech into the food.

GUWonder Sep 6, 19 2:15 pm


Originally Posted by slpybear (Post 31496876)
This thread is sufficient evidence that Large corporations are in a "no-win" situation in many areas, including environmental stewardship.

This thread and many others on FT provides sufficient evidence that large corporations’ PR machines generally win — no less so in markets that have become far more oligopolistic than they used to be.

The notion of Marriott being an environmental steward is, to put it kindly, amusing.

chipmaster Sep 6, 19 3:08 pm


Originally Posted by slpybear (Post 31496876)
This thread is sufficient evidence that Large corporations are in a "no-win" situation in many areas, including environmental stewardship.

Agreed, lots people all about themselves, most laughable is germphobias among the road warriors, you'd think after being on the road, sitting in uber's/cabs, airplanes, lounges, hotels etc. they'd have grown up, sounds like a bunch of grade school children, even then I can't remember them complaining so much, LOL


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31498409)


This thread and many others on FT provides sufficient evidence that large corporations’ PR machines generally win — no less so in markets that have become far more oligopolistic than they used to be.

The notion of Marriott being an environmental steward is, to put it kindly, amusing.

Can't imagine anyone that flies a lot / roadwarrior no matter they do criticizing Marriott is kettle calling the pot black

GUWonder Sep 6, 19 3:29 pm


Originally Posted by chipmaster (Post 31498580)

Can't imagine anyone that flies a lot / roadwarrior no matter they do criticizing Marriott is kettle calling the pot black

Which — in a roundabout way of sorts — speaks volumes, even as Marriott is a way bigger environmental problem than its individual customers who may have some concerns about the service failures related to this Marriott move for profit and margin increases. No proverbial kettle customer can be as black as the Marriott pot.

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 9:50 am

So much angst on this thread :eek:

Folks, the world is moving on. It is time to ween yourself from the needless waste of single use plastics. You and scream and yell all you want but this is not some "drop in the bucket" it is part of a larger trend that society is embracing.

myperks Sep 7, 19 11:14 am

Stayed at a Residence Inn earlier this week and they had the big bottles in the showers. I pumped it a couple times before I used it :D. (Yes, I know that doesn’t help if the former guest put anything in it but psychologically it did). At least there was still the soap bars from the vanity area.

cmd320 Sep 7, 19 11:54 am


Originally Posted by RoxyMountain (Post 31500787)
So much angst on this thread :eek:

Folks, the world is moving on. It is time to ween yourself from the needless waste of single use plastics. You and scream and yell all you want but this is not some "drop in the bucket" it is part of a larger trend that society is embracing.

So then explain to me the introduction of 'Fresh Bites' room service with single use containers, bags, and cutlery which is replacing standard room service. Is this also part of the trend?

The 'trend' has nothing to do with needless single use plastics, the trend is corporations cutting services and products where it benefits their bottom line. If they can spin it into being environmentally friendly to get some kind of demographic on board, then they will.

KRSW Sep 7, 19 12:30 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31496854)
In this case, if Marriott were serious about this then why not switch to bioplastics for all bath amenities?

​​​​​​Being entirely honest, Bioplastics are bullsh**. At the end of the day, it's still plastic AND often requires more energy to create, as you now have to account for the energy/chemicals used to make those plants which the plastics will be made from. When you're trying to extract oil for consumption/production, petroleum is the clear winner. It's why burning oil / natural gas is actually more environmentally-friendly than electric heat. Hopefully in the future we'll come up with something better, but that day hasn't happened yet.


Originally Posted by RoxyMountain (Post 31500787)
You and scream and yell all you want but this is not some "drop in the bucket" it is part of a larger trend that society is embracing.

Embracing? Governments forcing decisions upon people isn't embracing. If the hotels truly believed people embraced this stuff, provide both and see what happens. The problem today is that the ones who scream the loudest and are outraged/offended by everything aren't the majority. Unfortunately many businesses haven't figured this out yet.


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31495626)
Everyone says that it is just a drop in the bucket, and doesnt do anything. Everything has to start somewhere.

MEANINGFUL change is good. But in so many 'movements', especially environmental ones, no one's looking to see if these changes are really effective. Many are actually detrimental to the environment. Remember when Toyota Priuses (Pruii?) were the rage in Hollywood? Cradle-to-grave, those Priuses were worse for the environment than a regular sedan. Electric cars? Great, a new way to drive by coal power! Cash for Clunkers -- a boon for automakers and a negative for the environment. Recycling plastics? Take a deeper look -- they're often just shipped to 3rd world countries and dumped on the land, not even in proper landfills. Does anyone remember incandescent light bulbs? Does anyone remember who banned them? It was G.W. Bush. Try selling someone a single light bulb to someone in 2005 for $10 each and they'd laugh you out of the room...yet now we've managed to do that. The light bulb companies must be thrilled.

Again, I'm all for choice-driven, meaningful change.
​​​

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31501144)
So then explain to me the introduction of 'Fresh Bites' room service with single use containers, bags, and cutlery which is replacing standard room service. Is this also part of the trend?

The 'trend' has nothing to do with needless single use plastics, the trend is corporations cutting services and products where it benefits their bottom line. If they can spin it into being environmentally friendly to get some kind of demographic on board, then they will.

You don't really think that room service is used as often shampoo do you? I have yet to even stay in a hotel with this "fresh bites" stuff you talk of and cannot remember the last time I used room service.

It is clear that corporations, governments, and individuals are rapidly moving away from the wasteful inefficiency of single use plastics, it is far from the "drop in a bucket" some claim. A small minority may be triggered by this positive change but the majority embrace it. A few years from now we will look back and shake our heads at how wasteful we once were.

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31501246)
​​​​​​
Embracing? Governments forcing decisions upon people isn't embracing.​​​

The Governments were elected by the people and are carrying out their wishes. The fact is the majority support these changes.

Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31501246)
​​​​​​
The problem today is that the ones who scream the loudest and are outraged/offended by everything aren't the majority.
​​​

True, the folks screaming about how their life is ruined because they do not have single use shampoo are a small, but vocal, minority. The majority support it, for example 67% of U.S. Adults support a phaseout of plastic straws. The numbers are even larger in the UK. Companies overwhelmingly support the shift as well, Marriott is hardly unique


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31501246)
​​​​​​Remember when Toyota Priuses (Pruii?) were the rage in Hollywood? Cradle-to-grave, those Priuses were worse for the environment than a regular sedan. ​​​

Nope, that claim was a myth pushed by the oil lobby
https://science.howstuffworks.com/sc...d-benefits.htm
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/20...rbage-hit-job/


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31501246)
​​​​​​
Electric cars? Great, a new way to drive by coal power!
​​​

Coal? It is less than 30% of power in the US. Where I live we get most of our energy from wind farms and our prices are much lower than most of the country.

The world is moving on.

GUWonder Sep 7, 19 1:10 pm

The majority in favor of banning plastic straws and instead using paper straws probably either haven’t used them or haven’t paid enough attention to how many kids use them.

Given the amount of chemicals used to make paper — check out how stinky a paper factory can be — and the things done to make paper (and paper straws) white, it’s probably better to ban disposable straws than to encourage a transition from plastic straws to paper straws since a lot of that paper is going to be digested by humans and make its way around the human body and add to garbage containers filling up.

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 1:20 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31501359)
The majority in favor of banning plastic straws and instead using paper straws probably either haven’t used them or haven’t paid enough attention to how many kids use them.

Given the amount of chemicals used to make paper — check out how stinky a paper factory can be — and the things done to make paper (and paper straws) white, it’s probably better to ban disposable straws than to encourage a transition from plastic straws to paper straws since a lot of that paper is going to be digested by humans and make its way around the human body and add to garbage containers filling up.

I agree, I think straws are stupid. Always have.

Of course straws are just one example. The fact is the public overwhelmingly supports the effort to reduce the use of single use plastics. There is a small, vocal, minority that complains but most people move forward.

Visconti Sep 7, 19 1:22 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31501359)
The majority in favor of banning plastic straws and instead using paper straws probably either haven’t used them or haven’t paid enough attention to how many kids use them.

My entire life, except for a very few exceptions, have always preferred to drink without a straw. The few times I do use a straw are when I drink milkshakes or the Starbucks Frapp stuff. Not sure about anyone else, but when I try to drink a frozen drink too fast, you get that brain freeze (is that the term?), which feels like a heart attack where I could die in the next five minutes. So, I've just stopped drinking Milkshakes, Starbucks Frapps and frozen drinks altogether. No problem.

Admittedly, until reading this thread, I didn't have any thoughts on this eliminating single use stuff. If I recall, the F showers at CX HKG's lounges were all Aesop non-single use, which I had never given a second thought to. But, after reading this thread, I had no idea there were all these potential concerns! I suppose, if this is an issue, just stay with hotels that still offer single-use stuff?

Or, until as Roxy alludes to, this becomes a universal thing.

C17PSGR Sep 7, 19 1:24 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31501359)
The majority in favor of banning plastic straws and instead using paper straws probably either haven’t used them or haven’t paid enough attention to how many kids use them.

Given the amount of chemicals used to make paper — check out how stinky a paper factory can be — and the things done to make paper (and paper straws) white, it’s probably better to ban disposable straws than to encourage a transition from plastic straws to paper straws since a lot of that paper is going to be digested by humans and make its way around the human body and add to garbage containers filling up.

The reality is that a lot of people think things like "I support water conservation" but also think "I can believe this hotel has a shower with such low water pressure."

But while I'm confident that the increased labor cost associated with maintaining larger bottles will outweigh the cost savings from small plastic bottles, I'm having a hard time seeing any downside with having soap dispensers rather little bottles.

cmd320 Sep 7, 19 4:36 pm


Originally Posted by RoxyMountain (Post 31501267)
You don't really think that room service is used as often shampoo do you? I have yet to even stay in a hotel with this "fresh bites" stuff you talk of and cannot remember the last time I used room service.

It is clear that corporations, governments, and individuals are rapidly moving away from the wasteful inefficiency of single use plastics, it is far from the "drop in a bucket" some claim. A small minority may be triggered by this positive change but the majority embrace it. A few years from now we will look back and shake our heads at how wasteful we once were.

As often? Perhaps not, however I'm sure Marriott could draw up a lovely statistic about how many millions of tons of plastic would be saved each year if they were to switch away from Fresh Bites and back to reusable china and cutlery. This is how marketing works.

Is fantastic that Marriott's marketing team has made you believe this is some great environmentally friendly step and that a billion baby sea turtles will be saved in this process (that's their job), however the only change you're going to see is a slight uptick in profit on the annual report and just a little extra bonus going into Arne's pocket at the end of the fiscal year.

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31501875)
As often? Perhaps not, however I'm sure Marriott could draw up a lovely statistic about how many millions of tons of plastic would be saved each year if they were to switch away from Fresh Bites and back to reusable china and cutlery. This is how marketing works.

Is fantastic that Marriott's marketing team has made you believe this is some great environmentally friendly step and that a billion baby sea turtles will be saved in this process (that's their job), however the only change you're going to see is a slight uptick in profit on the annual report and just a little extra bonus going into Arne's pocket at the end of the fiscal year.

Their marketing isn't working as I have never even heard of Fresh bites.

My position has zero to do with Marriott marketing. For decades I have thought those tiny bottles were wasteful. It is nice to see them being replaced and the vast majority of people agree with me. You are welcome to complain as much as you like but it will have little affect, the world is moving on.

cmd320 Sep 7, 19 6:20 pm


Originally Posted by RoxyMountain (Post 31501943)
Their marketing isn't working as I have never even heard of Fresh bites.

My position has zero to do with Marriott marketing. For decades I have thought those tiny bottles were wasteful. It is nice to see them being replaced and the vast majority of people agree with me. You are welcome to complain as much as you like but it will have little affect, the world is moving on.

You must not stay at many FS mid-tier properties. However I wasn’t referring to the marketing of Fresh Bites rather the ‘green’ marketing.

At any rate, it doesn’t change much for me as I hate the new Marriott products and will continue to bring my own minis when staying at those properties. At the higher end properties not participating in this devaluation, that obviously won’t be necessary. The point is though, anyone thinking Marriott is making this change because they want to be more environmentally friendly is naive. This is typical corporate cost-cutting.

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 6:42 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31502091)
anyone thinking Marriott is making this change because they want to be more environmentally friendly is naive. This is typical corporate cost-cutting.

Consumers overwhelmingly support efforts to reduce single use plastic use. Companies across the globe are making efforts to reduce single use plastic. Governments across the globe are passing laws and regulations designed to reduce single use plastic.

Anyone thinking Marriott is making this change just because it might reduce costs is naive

cmd320 Sep 7, 19 6:44 pm


Originally Posted by RoxyMountain (Post 31502121)
Consumers overwhelmingly support efforts to reduce single use plastic use. Companies across the globe are making efforts to reduce single use plastic. Governments across the globe are passing laws and regulations designed to reduce single use plastic.

Anyone thinking Marriott is making this change just because it might reduce costs is naive

I disagree.

RoxyMountain Sep 7, 19 6:53 pm

Marriott estimates that, when the transition is complete, it will prevent around 500 million small bottles, or 1.7 million pounds of plastic, from entering landfills every year. ^ That is hardly a drop in the bucket.

IHG and Hilton have started similar initiatives. This trend is not going away.


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