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-   -   Marriott to Eliminate Single-use Toiletry Bottles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1984883-marriott-eliminate-single-use-toiletry-bottles.html)

cmd320 Aug 28, 19 12:45 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 31466780)
It is a 30% savings on plastic every year, regardless of all other factors and including the big bottles. That is a good thing, no matter the cost savings you want to focus on.

Sigh.

That's fine, however if this were a true environmental focus, Marriott would invest in eliminating all plastic bottles. They aren't. This is a cheapening of the product wrapped up in an environmental press release to make it seem like some great change.

Now, if this gets some kind of better bath products than the new trash they're using, that may be a positive, we'll see I suppose.

JBord Aug 28, 19 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by Kacee (Post 31466528)
I suspect this change is driven by legitimate environmental concerns, though cost savings are surely also being taken account.

Disposable plastics are a huge environmental problem.

You might be correct, but in my ~25 years working with Fortune 100 companies, I can tell you this is rarely the case (and granted that maybe companies have only become more aware in the last 5-10 years). With few exceptions, cost savings is the driver behind this and environment is the excuse to customers.

I have a hard time believing Marriott is doing it for a reason other than cost. If they can point to environmental concerns, that's the convenient cover for making the change. Large companies have been doing this for at least 10 years now.


Originally Posted by Zeeb (Post 31466577)
As others have stated, this is overall a good development... but I think they need to explain how they will ensure that nobody has tampered with the bottles. Those pictures don't show anything that would prevent somebody from opening up a bottle, messing with it, and closing it back up.

Yeah, every time I use this stuff, I'm going to think about those videos of people licking ice cream in grocery stores. And no one should think it's absurd. I'm sure we all witnessed these types of "pranks" in our college dorms.

bhrubin Aug 28, 19 1:13 pm


Originally Posted by JBord (Post 31466851)
I have a hard time believing Marriott is doing it for a reason other than cost. If they can point to environmental concerns, that's the convenient cover for making the change. Large companies have been doing this for at least 10 years now.

Yet the end result is still very good for the environment. So what's the problem? If the cost savings are the only reason for this change, it still is very good for the environment.

People are so worried about the reasons that they are missing the forest through the trees: ignoring the actual and tangibly very positive environmental impact.

C17PSGR Aug 28, 19 1:40 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 31466953)
Yet the end result is still very good for the environment. So what's the problem? If the cost savings are the only reason for this change, it still is very good for the environment.

People are so worried about the reasons that they are missing the forest through the trees: ignoring the actual and tangibly very positive environmental impact.

I suspect there may not be any cost savings. The larger dispensers may save on the bottles but likely increase labor costs.

kaizen7 Aug 28, 19 2:26 pm

The luxury hotels that use dispenser in my experience was using ceramic bottle with metal pump.
It wasn't sealed and can be opened easily.

I wonder if staff empty the bottle and clean them thoroughly after guest check out?
And since the bottle was quite large, how much shampoo/shower gel/conditioner/lotion will be thrown out when they clean these bottles

zymm Aug 28, 19 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by C17PSGR (Post 31467067)
I suspect there may not be any cost savings. The larger dispensers may save on the bottles but likely increase labor costs.

When IHG switched they stated that there is a significant upfront cost involved in installing the larger dispensers, but that investment will be recouped in 1-3 years from the cost savings associated with the bulk toiletries. No mention of increased labor costs. Any additional labor would come from housekeeping, and I doubt Marriott is going to up their time quota for cleaning or increase their salary, so no additional costs there. Maybe start tipping or increase your tip for housekeeping?

Antarius Aug 28, 19 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by kaizen7 (Post 31467259)
The luxury hotels that use dispenser in my experience was using ceramic bottle with metal pump.
It wasn't sealed and can be opened easily.

I wonder if staff empty the bottle and clean them thoroughly after guest check out?
And since the bottle was quite large, how much shampoo/shower gel/conditioner/lotion will be thrown out when they clean these bottles

Empty it out after every guest - is this a real question?

If i check out without touching the mini bottles, they don't throw them out. How can anyone guarantee no one did anything? Heck, most minis arent sealed - what's to stop someone in housekeeping from tampering with them either? What about the iron?

As long as the toothpaste and mouthwash (if present) are sealed, I'm not too worried about soap.

Antarius Aug 28, 19 2:43 pm


Originally Posted by C17PSGR (Post 31467067)
I suspect there may not be any cost savings. The larger dispensers may save on the bottles but likely increase labor costs.

How? They run out and they just replace the bottle. Showers in airport lounges have been doing this for years.

bhrubin Aug 28, 19 2:50 pm

While some of you debate the reasons why hotels are reducing/eliminating plastic toiletry containers and the security for the replacement refillable bottles, the policy will be implemented regardless. Enjoy.

The environmental benefits of reduced plastics are obvious and well proven despite the rhetoric to the contrary. Whatever the costs. It's a win for the environment, regardless. Enjoy.

Lots of trolling here. I'm out...since willful disinformation and ignorance aren't my cup of tea. Enjoy.

Dgosche Aug 28, 19 2:51 pm


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31467319)

If i check out without touching the mini bottles, they don't throw them out. How can anyone guarantee no one did anything? Heck, most minis arent sealed - what's to stop someone in housekeeping from tampering with them either? What about the

Is this true? I always assumed they tossed the minis because you couldn't tell if they had been used. At least that is what I always hoped was happening.

writerguyfl Aug 28, 19 3:21 pm


Originally Posted by Dgosche (Post 31466425)
I think these dispensers are disgusting. I had too many friends that were in frats to trust any mass use product that people have unsupervised access to. I'll either start buying my own disposable bottles or just use the bar soap on my hair.

Do you carry your own soap with you whenever you use a public restroom? The prospect of tampering in a public restroom is far greater than a hotel room where the management has a record of the name, address, and credit card of the previous occupant.

Besides, it's not as if the single-use bottles are under lock and key. If anyone wanted to tamper with them, it would be as simple as slipping the bad one onto an unattended housekeeping cart. And the safety seal is nothing more than a sticker.

GUWonder Aug 28, 19 3:36 pm

When hotels have transitioned away from single-use/take-away toiletries and toward re-fill-able dispensers, here is the kind of thing I increasingly encountered: finding out that there is no hand-soap or shower gel in the bathrooms when those items are most urgently needed; body lotion in the soap or shampoo or conditioner dispensers; empty dispensers that can’t be filled up until a hotel employee/contractor on site is free to come to the room to deliver them or I can get them from the lobby. And for early morning departures or late night arrivals at hotels, these kind of mess-ups is a far bigger issue than it may otherwise be. And for stays at hotels involving young kids, the big toiletry bottles’ wall mounts (and/or the walls where they are mounted) seem way more likely to end up broken by hotel guests according to some hotel housekeepers. I’m sure Marriott and the other hotels going this way don’t care, as the move is about hotels saving money by using environmental concerns as the excuse — same with house-keeping cut-backs for multi-night staying guests and same with the “eco-friendly” bathroom fixtures that throttle the water flow in the showers and sometimes even sinks. Combine all this “eco-friendly”-cover for hotel cost-cutting initiatives, and the hotel guest experience is worse for some of us than it would otherwise be without these hotel cost-cutting drives.

I can check-in at some hotels under the name “Writ Er Guyfl” without the hotel asking me for ID and/or credit card and without the hotel having done any address validation. My last three hotel stays — none were Marriott hotels, but all had wall-mounted toiletries — had me checking in by just verbally giving the front desk staff the last name as per on the reservation; and I never showed any ID not presented any credit card even as at least two of these hotels were “cash-free” hotels. But I’m also not likely to be someone to adulterate a bathroom toiletry dispenser in hotel rooms or anywhere else for that matter.

I do know of some FTers who more than joked about milking out airline lounge toiletries’s “fixed” dispensers from the BA lounges. I suspect something like that will happen increasingly at hotels too, as I suspect it’s happened a bunch at some European hotels that use Rituals in the bathrooms.

Dgosche Aug 28, 19 3:52 pm


Originally Posted by writerguyfl (Post 31467484)
Do you carry your own soap with you whenever you use a public restroom? The prospect of tampering in a public restroom is far greater than a hotel room where the management has a record of the name, address, and credit card of the previous occupant.

Besides, it's not as if the single-use bottles are under lock and key. If anyone wanted to tamper with them, it would be as simple as slipping the bad one onto an unattended housekeeping cart. And the safety seal is nothing more than a sticker.

Actually yes, but for a different reason. I can't help but think that the soap dispenser is the last thing someone touched before washing their hands after they've done whatever it is that they did in the bathroom. I'm much less afraid of tampering there because of the time along factor. Usually people are in and out of airport bathrooms enough that the risk of getting caught is high.

JBord Aug 28, 19 4:05 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 31466953)
Yet the end result is still very good for the environment. So what's the problem? If the cost savings are the only reason for this change, it still is very good for the environment.

People are so worried about the reasons that they are missing the forest through the trees: ignoring the actual and tangibly very positive environmental impact.

Yes, I don't dispute that some good comes of it. But anyone thinking it's more than coincidental is fooling themselves. As soon as an even cheaper way to provide soap comes along, Marriott will find a reason to switch to that, and may go backwards in terms of environmentally friendly results. This time it worked out so they could put a good spin on it.

I don't like the dispensers, personally. So good for the environment, bad for me I guess. And likely very very good for Marriott's income statement.

ryw Aug 28, 19 4:29 pm

As long as they can keep them filled correctly and cleanly. I was at a Holiday Inn once that had pumps for shower gel, shampoo, and conditioner, but the shampoo container was filled with shower gel...was not my favorite experience.

I'll admit that I'm someone who has amassed a bit of a personal stash (really useful for guests, trips where I'm not staying at a hotel, and so on). So part of me is sad to see them gone for those reasons. But I think the environmental outcomes are good (and good for Marriott's finances as well). Theoretically, I suppose there's isn't anything to stop someone from buying refillable 3 oz. containers and filling them up from the pumps though...

CPH-Flyer Aug 28, 19 4:30 pm

Maybe, as some people say, 4 small bottles equate the same amount of plastic as one big.

But if I have a series of 1 night stays (which happens) then after each night all 4 small bottles are discarded, despite me not using but a small portion of the content of them. The big bottles would barely show signs of my consumption. So after 5 single nights the miniature bottles would have equated enough plastic to 5 big bottles, yet the big bottles in those rooms are still fine for many guests to come. Leave aside the fact that on long term stays, housekeeping will often replace the small bottles before they are empty.

The environmental benefit is obvious. If Marriott benefits as well, so be it. I can live with an initiative having more than one benefit. I can even live with Marriott doing this purely for the money, and the environmental impact just being a positive side effect.

MSPeconomist Aug 28, 19 4:34 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31466566)
Completely disagree. Marriott couldn't care less about the environment, this is 100% a cost-cutting measure wrapped up in some environmental marketing hype to get people on board with it. A swath of 4 small bottles or 1 big bottle is still going to produce the same amount of plastic. If they were really concerned about the environment they would remove the plastic all together and use glass bottles.

I consider glass in lower end hotels to be scary. I don't want to step on glass shards in the shower.

MSPeconomist Aug 28, 19 4:38 pm


Originally Posted by zymm (Post 31467315)
When IHG switched they stated that there is a significant upfront cost involved in installing the larger dispensers, but that investment will be recouped in 1-3 years from the cost savings associated with the bulk toiletries. No mention of increased labor costs. Any additional labor would come from housekeeping, and I doubt Marriott is going to up their time quota for cleaning or increase their salary, so no additional costs there. Maybe start tipping or increase your tip for housekeeping?

Why should I tip more and increase my costs while Marriott/Bonvoy saves money? This is a matter between hotel management and housekeeping staff, not something where I should be responsible for covering any difference.

Ysitincoach Aug 28, 19 6:38 pm

This poses the question of the slippery slope of what’s next?

Major US hotel chains have eliminated frequency of shuttles, doorstep newspapers, delivered checkout folios all in the name of the environment and as we know cost cutting.

Now go single use plastic toiletries...what’s next? Linen service? Towels reduced? Bed sheets? No air conditioning at all?

More and more the Marriott and the overall American hotel experience is reduced to a glorified eco-tourist camping trip.

mahasamatman Aug 28, 19 6:54 pm

Good move, though it should have been done years ago.

atbPy Aug 28, 19 7:42 pm

I thought this was already in the works. I first recall seeing these in 2018 at a Courtyard Marriott. Most of the recent Fairfield Inn stays have had the Paul Mitchell green bottles in the picture. I appreciate seeing these because the small bottles are extremely wasteful.

ricktoronto Aug 28, 19 7:50 pm


Originally Posted by Kacee (Post 31465940)
And it's not like Marriotts ever have toiletries I'd want to take with me . . . .

Or even use. I have to think many or most guests bring their own. I rarely use supplied little bottles, though I have kept a few sewing kits and emery boards or tiny shave creams for connecting showers (the razors are horrible).

Antarius Aug 28, 19 8:04 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 31467715)
I consider glass in lower end hotels to be scary. I don't want to step on glass shards in the shower.

Glass in showers is scary, period. Last thing needed for a sleepy/tired/drunk/hungover/
<insert scenario here> person to knock or break a glass bottle in the shower.

Lower or higher end, it's easy to miss a small glass shard.

Antarius Aug 28, 19 8:05 pm


Originally Posted by ricktoronto (Post 31468199)
Or even use. I have to think many or most guests bring their own. I rarely use supplied little bottles, though I have kept a few sewing kits and emery boards or tiny shave creams for connecting showers (the razors are horrible).

If this was the case, they wouldn't put them there. A lot of people definitely use them

gengar Aug 28, 19 8:11 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 31466566)
Completely disagree. Marriott couldn't care less about the environment, this is 100% a cost-cutting measure wrapped up in some environmental marketing hype to get people on board with it. A swath of 4 small bottles or 1 big bottle is still going to produce the same amount of plastic.

As a long-time veteran of the hotel industry, unfortunately I agree completely. There's no way any of these companies would even consider these initiatives if it didn't reduce their costs and the PR/marketing spin couldn't overcome the negative impact on guest experience. I'm also quite skeptical of any positive environmental impact, but of course any big corp is going to dress this up in PR.

Collierkr Aug 28, 19 8:27 pm


Originally Posted by Gig103 (Post 31466179)
Ugh, I wish they'd at least keep some single-use bottles on hand at the front desk, like the disposable razors and toothbrushes. I really dislike the guise that they're doing it "for the environment" too, just admit you're saving costs and be upfront about it.

what you can’t bring your own razors?

AlanInDC Aug 28, 19 8:31 pm

I understand the rationale but I'll miss them. And I always take my leftover little bottles and use them later.

estedman Aug 28, 19 8:37 pm

I knew this day was coming and fricking hate it.

btonkid12345 Aug 28, 19 8:53 pm

I never use bar soap. I also find it to be extremely wasteful relative to liquid soap. The Fairmont in the North End in Boston used to recycle the leftover soap, collecting them and sending them to be re-formulated and donated. Only place that I've ever heard of anything so thoughtful.

I also hope they don't refill bottles. The "permanent dispensers" like at a Four Points stink - but I don't mind, for example, CYs where they replace the ENTIRE BOTTLE and pump when it runs out. Housekeeping just has new full bottles on their cart.

I also think they should rollout a sanitizing routine for the parts of the pumps that come into contact with hands. Just make it clear that every Housekeeper MUST sterilize the pumps daily. If that occurred, would be very appropriate for the premium and luxury Bonvoy brands.

Isochronous Aug 28, 19 9:07 pm

This is going to be a hygiene disaster. Your average Marriott is heading the way of a Motel Formula 1 now.

MSPeconomist Aug 28, 19 9:11 pm


Originally Posted by btonkid12345 (Post 31468364)
I never use bar soap. I also find it to be extremely wasteful relative to liquid soap. The Fairmont in the North End in Boston used to recycle the leftover soap, collecting them and sending them to be re-formulated and donated. Only place that I've ever heard of anything so thoughtful.

I also hope they don't refill bottles. The "permanent dispensers" like at a Four Points stink - but I don't mind, for example, CYs where they replace the ENTIRE BOTTLE and pump when it runs out. Housekeeping just has new full bottles on their cart.

I also think they should rollout a sanitizing routine for the parts of the pumps that come into contact with hands. Just make it clear that every Housekeeper MUST sterilize the pumps daily. If that occurred, would be very appropriate for the premium and luxury Bonvoy brands.

Sanitation only matters at premium and luxury brands? And are you suggesting that at such brands, the cheap alternative is OK as long as housekeeper sterliize the pumps daily, assuming that it's even possible/practical to do this in rooms? [Does the housekeeper bring a portable steam device to surround the pump and bottle attached to the wall and wait until it reaches the right temperature for the required time? I'm trying to imagine the routine and technology that would work to sanitize the pumps and attached bottles ot product.]

mahasamatman Aug 28, 19 9:13 pm


Originally Posted by btonkid12345 (Post 31468364)
I never use bar soap. I also find it to be extremely wasteful relative to liquid soap..

Funny, I find the opposite. When hotels only provide shower gel, I'd say at least 70% of it gets wasted.


Originally Posted by btonkid12345 (Post 31468364)
The Fairmont in the North End in Boston used to recycle the leftover soap, collecting them and sending them to be re-formulated and donated. Only place that I've ever heard of anything so thoughtful.

Many hotels advertised it, but I recall a report saying that was just an advertising gimmick and nothing ever actually came of it.

Dave510 Aug 28, 19 9:22 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 31466280)
Sometimes even high quality products are too strongly scented or too floral for my taste.

My nose is starting to clog up as the thought of Asprey Purple Water comes to mind.

writerguyfl Aug 28, 19 9:42 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31467536)
I can check-in at some hotels under the name “Writ Er Guyfl” without the hotel asking me for ID and/or credit card and without the hotel having done any address validation. My last three hotel stays — none were Marriott hotels, but all had wall-mounted toiletries — had me checking in by just verbally giving the front desk staff the last name as per on the reservation; and I never showed any ID not presented any credit card even as at least two of these hotels were “cash-free” hotels.

So, those hotels are equally prone to having liquid soap polluted as public bathrooms. Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of world is like you:


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31467536)
But I’m also not likely to be someone to adulterate a bathroom toiletry dispenser in hotel rooms or anywhere else for that matter.


CPH-Flyer Aug 28, 19 9:46 pm

It is interesting that having big bottles with pumps is a problem in hotel bathrooms, though I have never seen any complaints about the big dispenser bottles of hand-wash and hand cream in the e.g. Cathay lounge restrooms.

It reminds me of the discussion sometimes popping up about laundered PJs, people refusing to use a laundered PJ for sanitary reasons, but are perfectly fine to use a laundered towel or laundered linen at a hotel.
​​​​​​
If you question the sanitary condition of a soap pump and refuse to use it, what about turning the faucet on, using the door handle when exiting from the bathroom, or flushing the toilet?

I don't disagree that maintenance and cleaning of the setup will be very important for the visuals of the new setup. Something battered, poorly functioning with soap spilling out everywhere will leave a huge negative impression. But I don't worry more about the sanitary conditions of this than I worry about sanitary conditions of my hotel room in general. Which is not much in most places.

KRSW Aug 28, 19 11:13 pm

The dispensers are absolutely disgusting. Here's what greeted me at a Four Points last month. That mold didn't get that way overnight. Despite mentioning it to the front desk, nothing was done about it. If the outside looks this bad, what's on the inside? I should point out that all three dispensers looked like this.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...e4d5f51a5f.jpg


Originally Posted by GW McLintock (Post 31466571)
The large bottles are much easier (and cheaper) to clean and recycle than the minis.

Except...sadly... Plastic honestly isn't recycled, even if you put it in the appropriate bin. This is especially true in countries which claim very high % of recycling, such as Germany, Austria, and Sweden. Dirty little secret: They claim tossing the plastics into incinerators is "recycling" since they're converting waste to heat/energy. Do some research on it and you'll be surprised.

The real solution on this is to have the TSA get rid of the bull**** liquid/gel restrictions. At that point I'd be more than happy to carry my own toiletries with me.

storewanderer Aug 28, 19 11:44 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 31467357)
While some of you debate the reasons why hotels are reducing/eliminating plastic toiletry containers and the security for the replacement refillable bottles, the policy will be implemented regardless. Enjoy.

The environmental benefits of reduced plastics are obvious and well proven despite the rhetoric to the contrary. Whatever the costs. It's a win for the environment, regardless. Enjoy.

Lots of trolling here. I'm out...since willful disinformation and ignorance aren't my cup of tea. Enjoy.

Let's see, they are replacing little disposable plastic bottles (with a bottle and a cheap tin lid) with BIG disposable "tamper resistent" (it takes more plastic to make them tamper resistent... that is also why these big bottles can't be refilled) plastic bottles that contain a dispenser spout (like a thick plastic straw) and more thick plastic for the product to fall out of. I will repeat myself here, Marriott is switching to BIG NON-REFILLABLE PLASTIC BOTTLES.

No environmental benefit at all. Those big bottles are thicker and use even more plastic than the little bottles being replaced. Total cost cutting and labor savings move.

If they were going to wall mounted refillable dispensers then your arguments, bhrubin, would be valid and correct. But that is not what is happening here.

s0ssos Aug 28, 19 11:53 pm


Originally Posted by storewanderer (Post 31468692)
Let's see, they are replacing little disposable plastic bottles (with a bottle and a cheap tin lid) with BIG disposable "tamper resistent" (it takes more plastic to make them tamper resistent... that is also why these big bottles can't be refilled) plastic bottles that contain a dispenser spout (like a thick plastic straw) and more thick plastic for the product to fall out of. I will repeat myself here, Marriott is switching to BIG NON-REFILLABLE PLASTIC BOTTLES.

No environmental benefit at all. Those big bottles are thicker and use even more plastic than the little bottles being replaced. Total cost cutting and labor savings move.

If they were going to wall mounted refillable dispensers then your arguments, bhrubin, would be valid and correct. But that is not what is happening here.

Did you calculate that the big bottles use more plastic? Quite a few calculations for you there. Can you show your work?

Gig103 Aug 29, 19 12:21 am


Originally Posted by Collierkr (Post 31468308)


what you can’t bring your own razors?

Sometimes I forget, or sometimes I don't feel like checking a bag (I use a safety razor). The point is that hotels offer amenities for travelers that still use plastic. I'd like shampoo with a tamper-evident seal.

stimpy Aug 29, 19 1:35 am

We will know that Marriott truly cares about the environment when they remove the single use plastic cups from their rooms and put back the glasses they used to have. That would really make me happy.


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