Marriott shoots self in foot re: resort fee disclosure
#91
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,824
As I understand it, the OP's point was not about what the fees include. Rather, it was about the fact that the "multi-step" discovery process is akin to giving prospective customers the middle finger.
#92
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,032
Whats the difference between that and finding out what your sales tax is at the register at Nordstroms or whatever? When you look at the menu at a restaurant, does it have the tax and tip included price? Unless the laws are changed and or the courts say otherwise, its not illegal! Airlines did the exact same thing until the law was changed, but before that it wasn't illegal for them.
In other words because the actual price is not clearly communicated (or published), this practice creates asymmetric information which violates one of assumption, in the classical micro economic sense, for a functioning free market.
This violation creates market imperfections and less competition.
To change this practice via legislation should be viewed in the same manner as that the US have laws against cartels etc, i.e. sometimes you need to legislate to minimize the effect of market imperfections ....
#93
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I mean, I think there are two issues. One is obfuscation on overall price. That's what the AGs are going after. The other is benefit obfuscation, which might well end up being grounds for a separate fraud case. The two are wrapped up with one another but they're not exactly the same problem.
I think a third, related, complaint is that I can't easily check (for example) parking fees. I've had to pull out a scratch pad more than once to sort out which hotel was cheaper among a set of hotels after accounting for parking and for resort fees (since about half the time when I'm in Orlando I don't have a car, but half the time I do, and it can significantly alter my calculus about getting a rental car and parking vs just using Uber/Lyft). At least with an explicit parking fee you can dodge or mitigate that (sometimes to the confusion and apparent consternation of the staff).
Conceptually I have no problem with "unbundling", but it would be nice to be able to "build your own bundle" when price shopping. To be fair, I've got the same complaint pretty much across the board with the travel industry...but that doesn't mean the complaint doesn't exist.
I think a third, related, complaint is that I can't easily check (for example) parking fees. I've had to pull out a scratch pad more than once to sort out which hotel was cheaper among a set of hotels after accounting for parking and for resort fees (since about half the time when I'm in Orlando I don't have a car, but half the time I do, and it can significantly alter my calculus about getting a rental car and parking vs just using Uber/Lyft). At least with an explicit parking fee you can dodge or mitigate that (sometimes to the confusion and apparent consternation of the staff).
Conceptually I have no problem with "unbundling", but it would be nice to be able to "build your own bundle" when price shopping. To be fair, I've got the same complaint pretty much across the board with the travel industry...but that doesn't mean the complaint doesn't exist.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Aug 13, 2019 at 4:33 am
#94
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 3,360
Let's say I agree. I still don't see how this tweet is some sort of smoking gun. What's important is how the fee is disclosed during the booking process. Everything else is irrelevant. As I noted earlier, no one books hotel rooms via tweets.
#95
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, GHA Tit, BA Gold, Turkish Elite
Posts: 8,684
You keep saying this, but youre still wrong. The issue at hand is the price discovery process, not booking. Nobody is claiming this is a massive a ha by itself, but its not hard to understand that if the AG is reviewing whether hotels can be compared fairly in the price discovery process, then not having a comparable price with other hotels but then also not easily being able to see what the extra fees cover even once they are discovered on click-through is clearly relevant.
#96
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,110
The fact that they intentionally hide the true room rate during the search process is the point. It's basically false advertising.
Last edited by mahasamatman; Aug 13, 2019 at 7:50 am
#97
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,110
I look forward to the day that this happens. All posted prices everywhere should include all required taxes and fees. Full stop.
#98
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,902
yup... the tweet is not the smoking gun, which is what appears to be the original intent of the thread based on the title. It then blossomed into resort fee disclosure and what not, while relevant to general resort fees (which there are plenty of other threads on the topic), but the tweet seems irrelevant to the AGs case. SMH
Last edited by myperks; Aug 13, 2019 at 8:18 am
#99
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,902
You keep saying this, but youre still wrong. The issue at hand is the price discovery process, not booking. Nobody is claiming this is a massive a ha by itself, but its not hard to understand that if the AG is reviewing whether hotels can be compared fairly in the price discovery process, then not having a comparable price with other hotels but then also not easily being able to see what the extra fees cover even once they are discovered on click-through is clearly relevant.
#100
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Actually, I think we should have a thread on why people would expect reliable information from Twitter, whether it's Marriott or otherwise. But I realize I'm probably in the minority opinion on that one.
#101
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I think the tweet does go to a poor disclosure process even if the discussion has ranged afar by a bit.
I am wondering what would be involved, practically speaking, in designing a "scraper" that takes available hotel rates a la what Google does and then slaps on known resort-esque fees (and allows you to add the cost of parking a car)? At the very least, I'd sure like to see the dust-up that would happen if a batch of hotels tried to sue such a site to stop them.
I am wondering what would be involved, practically speaking, in designing a "scraper" that takes available hotel rates a la what Google does and then slaps on known resort-esque fees (and allows you to add the cost of parking a car)? At the very least, I'd sure like to see the dust-up that would happen if a batch of hotels tried to sue such a site to stop them.
#102
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
Some of the pushback you're getting is because your example doesn't prove your thesis.
Your example was a tweet that pointed guests down a multi-step process to find out what the resort fee inclusions are at a particular hotel. As I understand it, the Attorneys General are suing over the lack of disclosure of the cost of the resort fee during booking. What's included in the fee is irrelevant to the lawsuit. Therefore, a tweet about how to find those inclusions is also irrelevant to the case.
Additionally, even if the tweet were about the actual cost, it would be irrelevant because Twitter isn't a component of the actual process of booking a hotel room online. The Attorneys General will only care about the process of booking a hotel room on the website.
Your example was a tweet that pointed guests down a multi-step process to find out what the resort fee inclusions are at a particular hotel. As I understand it, the Attorneys General are suing over the lack of disclosure of the cost of the resort fee during booking. What's included in the fee is irrelevant to the lawsuit. Therefore, a tweet about how to find those inclusions is also irrelevant to the case.
Additionally, even if the tweet were about the actual cost, it would be irrelevant because Twitter isn't a component of the actual process of booking a hotel room online. The Attorneys General will only care about the process of booking a hotel room on the website.
yup... the tweet is not the smoking gun, which is what appears to be the original intent of the thread based on the title. It then blossomed into resort fee disclosure and what not, while relevant to general resort fees (which there are plenty of other threads on the topic), but the tweet seems irrelevant to the AGs case. SMH
Hotels are not the only ones to benefit from what I call government sponsored scam. Counties do this with their sales tax as well. But its ok because its a tax right?
#103
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
At least in theory, though, those fees/taxes will be about the same within a jurisdiction (either in percentage or in amount). Thus in many cases, when comparing hotels those are mostly (if not entirely) irrelevant to the relative prices.
#104
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DTW
Programs: Alaska, Delta, Southwest
Posts: 1,661
Twitter is how many people interact with customer service nowadays. Its just a medium - the info isnt coming from Twitter; its coming from the company. If its reasonable to expect reliable information from an agent on the phone, doesnt that extend to the agents on Twitter as well?
#105
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BOS
Programs: Marriott LTG, HHonors Diamond, Nat'l Exec
Posts: 3,580
Twitter is how many people interact with customer service nowadays. Its just a medium - the info isnt coming from Twitter; its coming from the company. If its reasonable to expect reliable information from an agent on the phone, doesnt that extend to the agents on Twitter as well?