C17PSGR

Without franchises and the ability to draw from million of loyal Bonvoy members, the hotels wouldn't be built. Obviously, there are resorts out there that target free lancers, and their rates may be lower. If they thought they would do better as independent, they would.

The only properties that have a substantive exception to the "free stuff," as you put it, are the Atlantis and Cosmopolitan.

Aspirational resorts do not have exceptions and outside of Mexico/Central America, Marriott resort properties provide real breakfasts and suite upgrades to elite-level frequent guests. It's really good business as the marginal cost of providing that breakfast is usually not much more than a dollar or two (for which the hotel is reimbursed $7.50) and they can draw from a pool of lots of elites by providing this benefit. Similarly, I don't know of anyone that expects properties to stop selling upgrades, but we simply expect the properties to follow the program rules that we relied upon when we made the reservation and traveled to their properties. That doesn't mean give us a suite they would otherwise sell but does mean give us a suite that would otherwise be empty.

As an example, I sometimes stay in the Griffin Club at the JW Marriott in Cabo. It's a nice property with very good staff. However, they have told me their policy is they don't upgrade to suites. On my last stay, it was obvious there wasn't more than 2-3 rooms in the whole wing of the Griffin Club. Similarly, other Marriott properties in Cancun and PVR have told me (and others) that their policy is to only upgrade one category. I'll set aside the breakfast issue since these are all inclusives.

So ... while I've stayed more than a couple of hundred nights in Marriotts over the past year, in Asia, Australia, Caribbean, Europe, US/Hawaii, and the Middle East, by and large those properties and resorts continue to provide the published program benefits (aka "free stuff") to recognize my repeat business. But ... because Mexico/Central America properties seem to have collectively decided to cheat, I avoid discretionary travel there. Interesting, the Mexico/Central America region is the only region where Marriott's business is down.

kaizen7

Hotel owner surely have put these all consideration before commit the property with a chain or going independent.
They can save some cost of providing elite benefits per t&c in expense of losing significant marketing power of the chain.

But then again if they want to have these marketing power (and collection of loyal customers) they have to be ready to incur some cost to provide elite benefits and member's rate discount.

Interestingly RC Singapore manage to continue its non participation in Bonvoy and yet still have access to RC brand and Marriott booking channel.
If I was RC Singapore owner, I would continue the non participation as it provide the marketing power with no cost involve in providing elite benefits.

Would be interesting to know if this status actually create some problem with unsuspecting guests (failed to read the notification guests) and those guests complains during check in.


The breakfast reimbursement is quite significant actually ... I always thought it will be lower.
And do the hotel get them every night the member stays or only when member did actually present to the restaurant and have breakfast?
On my stays, there are some days that I will be too lazy to wake up for breakfast and just skip them altogether.

With that amount of reimbursement, I don't see the reason why property try to skimp on this benefit (hence the complexity of breakfast benefit rules) especially if they already provide buffet breakfast for their guest in the restaurant.

And about the suite upgrade .... I guess the issue is sometimes hotel overestimate their ability to sell the said suites.
Say 4 nights stays ... several suites were empty but hotel confident that they can sell those suites ... so block them from elite upgrades .. and yet they failed to sell them during the period.

I wont be surprised if many other elites did the same as you do.
"cheated" by those hotels before ... then avoid travel there or might just book different hotel while visiting the area.

C17PSGR

I don't understand the RC Singapore situation. I always thought they must have some strange legacy contract.

But, a Mexican hotel would definitely make money by the Marriott reimbursement on breakfast. I assume they cheat because they expect some of those who expect the breakfast as a Plat will just buy breakfast. They certainly aren't losing money.

I don't understand the suite issue in Mexico at all. In the US, reluctance to upgrade to suites is usually driven by housekeeping metrics. In Mexico, they would rather keep them empty and I don't get the thought process.

oopsz

Many of them are all-inclusive with respect to alcohol as well (even high quality alcohol), especially in locales where the exchange rate and low cost of labor can make up for it.

writerguyfl

[redacted]

kaizen7

X-ON

Hope they will include properties in Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Mauritius ... wonder if these rates will available for BRG since many hotels sell these all inclusive packages from 3rd party sites sometimes at deep discounts.

dtremit

By definition Marriott (and other chain) elite upgrades are subject to availability at check in, with the exception of things like SNAs that properties can easily dodge. So if the hotel were able to sell those nicer rooms, they would have done so already. And that extends to holding them for sale later in a stay, if the property sees fit.

The hotel is, likewise, welcome to upsell elites into confirmed upgrades at any time. SPG used to make it much easier to spend points to upgrade a points reservation, something I did plenty of times.

The bottom line is, a well managed hotel is likely giving up very little revenue to elite upgrades during busy periods. All a policy exception does is create an opportunity to nickel-and-dime elites during the slow periods where the hotels likely depend on loyalty to generate traffic in the first place. It also gives the property little incentive to improve an elite guest's stay when upgrades truly aren't available, since the conversation is off the table.

As I see it, all inclusive reports are somewhat parallel to limited-service properties like Fairfield and Springhill -- in the sense that your room rate already includes many of the benefits that only elites get for free at full service properties. And as with those limited service properties, Marriott's value proposition is somewhat low.

I've noted elsewhere that -- in my experience -- limited service Marriott properties have less of a culture of recognizing elites than have properties at other chains where I've held status. Their view seems to be "well, we don't offer upgrades, so we won't pay attention." I firmly believe that Marriott's legalistic elite benefit rules are the root of that.

As a concrete example, my profile for every chain says "high floor preferred"; as a Hyatt or Hilton Diamond I literally never was assigned a first floor room at a Hyatt Place or Hilton Garden Inn. With Marriott, I end up on the ground floor of a Courtyard pretty much every other stay, without so much as a token apology. In at least one case, a city Courtyard pre-booked me into the smallest room on a low floor; it didn't even have the desk listed in the description in my reservation. I long said the best benefit of elite status was never ending up with the worst room in the property, but even that isn't safe anymore.

For my business trips to Nowheresville, I'll probably keep staying at Courtyards, since I don't care enough to forego the points and stays, and the status benefits me elsewhere. For vacations, though? If there's no value offered to elites on property, there's no reason for me to prefer a Marriott. I don't get enough vacation time to waste that time chasing a handful of points.

C17PSGR

Of course, I assume that the reason developers partner with Marriott on this, as well as with Hyatt in the Ziva concept is so they don't have to sell the packages at deep discounts.

Presumably, if they can keep Bonvoy members feeling like their is value from the program at these properties, that will reduce the risk to the developers even further. Curious whether Tim Sheldon pushes that part of the message ....

https://news.marriott.com/p/tim-sheldon/

allset2travel

Maybe higher "resort fees"?

C17PSGR

Wonder what the resort fee includes at an all-inclusive

uppereastsider

At the Ziva / Zilara (Hyatt's all inclusive brand), I've been given complementary upgrades to their club tower with nicer rooms, as well as given a swim up room, all when booked using points for lowest room category. Others have received access to the adults only towers. I could also opt to use a TSU for a suite with a hot tub on the balcony. It's a nice benefit.

I could easily see Marriott screw over elites by making upgrades only for Titanium+ (proving that Plat is the new gold), remove upgrades all together, remove SNAs, etc.

dtremit

One counterpoint to all of this speculation (including my own) -- TPG reports here that these all-inclusives are being built under Marriott's existing brands:

• a 650-room Autograph Collection resort expected to open in 2022 in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic
• 4 properties in a “flagship, all-inclusive destination” called NIA in Riviera Nayarit, Mexico
  • a 240-room Ritz-Carlton resort (2023)
  • a 400-room Westin Hotels resort (2023)
  • a 300-room Autograph Collection resort (2025)
  • a 500-room Marriott Hotels resort

The fact that all of these are opening under existing flags (rather than a new brand like Hyatt's Ziva or Zilara) makes it less likely IMHO that Marriott will try to completely change the rules.

khabah

Just saw this job posting on Marriott's website for the Armar House Cancún under the W Hotels section, listing the property as an all-inclusive. Could we be seeing the debut of Marriott's first all-inclusive W in the form of W Cancún?

khabah