Does every W hotel have the worst service out of all the Marriott brands?
May 28, 2019, 5:29 pm
#91
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I agree with quite a bit of this. But I'm a little tired of threads that devolve into SPG is greater than Marriott and vice versa. The fake "income" argument from either side here is annoying. Responding to someone's absurd comment about income with an equally absurd opposite comment doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm just missing the point.
I hope I'm not offending either of you, because that's not my intent. I've read posts from both of you in other FT forums and generally respect your points of view. But these income posts just continue the SPG vs. Marriott sniping, which has nothing to do with the OP's post about W's. The reality is simply that maybe the W is not the best brand for the OP -- there are plenty of others to try though!
I hope I'm not offending either of you, because that's not my intent. I've read posts from both of you in other FT forums and generally respect your points of view. But these income posts just continue the SPG vs. Marriott sniping, which has nothing to do with the OP's post about W's. The reality is simply that maybe the W is not the best brand for the OP -- there are plenty of others to try though!
As it were, I stay with many more brands now from the overall Marriott portfolio and am quite pleased with the increased choices. But I choose hotels--not brands for the most part. I stayed at my first Autograph last week (Kansas City Ambassador Hotel) and liked it very much. I have discovered I am not a fan of the big convention JW hotels (Chicago, Austin) and do prefer the smaller W properties in those towns. I truly despise the Sheraton Times Square. I don't particularly like any of the Ws in New York, but I think the W Boston is great. I really like the Renaissance Providence. I like the W Westwood fine, but I vastly prefer the SLS Beverly Hills. I had a terrible stay at the W Hollywood--literally driving home in the middle of the night due to poor HVAC. I still am treated super well at the Le Meridiens Cambridge and Arlington. I was not treated well my last stay at the Le Meridien Philly and have't returned. I have had amazing stays and elite recognition with a number of Ritz-Carlton hotels--including a ton of wonderful suite upgrades and truly impressive service and elevated experiences. I love the addition of Ritz-Carlton to my luxury options. But I still was disappointed with the RC Dallas and will probably stay at the W next time around. I find the Courtyard New Haven to be reliably better than the Omni in town. The Courtyards in Manhattan don't impress me as much as the Four Points. I still love St Regis and wish there were more.
May 28, 2019, 5:58 pm
#92
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I also prefer the W approach to the fake servility you will often encounter at RCs (especially) and StR. Just tacking "sir" on the end of every sentence does not convert poor service to good service. That said I find W's branding, which often involves replacing perfectly appropriate descriptors with nonsense words that tell you absolutely nothing about the product or service being offered.
May 28, 2019, 6:18 pm
#93
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So your theory is you can't tell a person's income by the clothes they buy, but you can by the hotel room they buy?
I like your use of "probably" in explaining the "data".
All you can tell from the data is that not all high income people stay at W's and not all low-income people stay at CY's. The average revenue is based on price, not income or social class. I agree that data rules, but you haven't cited any. You're making what you believe is a reasonable guess. The same as the person who guessed that CY guests make more money that W guests. There's no data available to back either one.
Marriott does not know the income or the net worth of their guests. I'd actually suggest the latter is more relevant than the other anyway. How can this data be available if they don't have it?
I agree with quite a bit of this. But I'm a little tired of threads that devolve into SPG is greater than Marriott and vice versa. The fake "income" argument from either side here is annoying. Responding to someone's absurd comment about income with an equally absurd opposite comment doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm just missing the point.
I hope I'm not offending either of you, because that's not my intent. I've read posts from both of you in other FT forums and generally respect your points of view. But these income posts just continue the SPG vs. Marriott sniping, which has nothing to do with the OP's post about W's. The reality is simply that maybe the W is not the best brand for the OP -- there are plenty of others to try though!
I like your use of "probably" in explaining the "data".
All you can tell from the data is that not all high income people stay at W's and not all low-income people stay at CY's. The average revenue is based on price, not income or social class. I agree that data rules, but you haven't cited any. You're making what you believe is a reasonable guess. The same as the person who guessed that CY guests make more money that W guests. There's no data available to back either one.
Marriott does not know the income or the net worth of their guests. I'd actually suggest the latter is more relevant than the other anyway. How can this data be available if they don't have it?
I agree with quite a bit of this. But I'm a little tired of threads that devolve into SPG is greater than Marriott and vice versa. The fake "income" argument from either side here is annoying. Responding to someone's absurd comment about income with an equally absurd opposite comment doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm just missing the point.
I hope I'm not offending either of you, because that's not my intent. I've read posts from both of you in other FT forums and generally respect your points of view. But these income posts just continue the SPG vs. Marriott sniping, which has nothing to do with the OP's post about W's. The reality is simply that maybe the W is not the best brand for the OP -- there are plenty of others to try though!
All valid points (although I might disagree about the absurdity
May 28, 2019, 11:43 pm
#94
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I also prefer the W approach to the fake servility you will often encounter at RCs (especially) and StR. Just tacking "sir" on the end of every sentence does not convert poor service to good service. That said I find W's branding, which often involves replacing perfectly appropriate descriptors with nonsense words that tell you absolutely nothing about the product or service being offered.
As a W fan, parts of this make me scratch my head. Also, I find replacing the elevator rugs 3 times a day (Good Morning, Afternoon, Evening) to be a giant waste of time, serving no purpose whatsoever except making me feel bad for the poor soul expending effort on a fruitless endeavor.
May 29, 2019, 12:31 am
#95
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I believe Marriott did positioned W brand along those StR RC and LuxCol (and some of W have price to match those hotel)
As for the W brand itself ..... I would say the closest competitor outside Marriott universe for W will be Sofitel SO (not sure if Hyatt and Hilton have similar style)
Luxury yet funky and also cool and hip but not display too much aristocratic luxury like StR and less formal .... doubt the dtaff will be saying "my pleasure" that often
As for the W brand itself ..... I would say the closest competitor outside Marriott universe for W will be Sofitel SO (not sure if Hyatt and Hilton have similar style)
Luxury yet funky and also cool and hip but not display too much aristocratic luxury like StR and less formal .... doubt the dtaff will be saying "my pleasure" that often
May 29, 2019, 1:06 am
#96
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Haven’t read the entire thread but there certainly are some stellar W’s. We have stayed at a lot of W Hotels over the years and although at this stage of our lives we will typically choose a Luxury Collection or St Regis over a W there are times we still choose to stay at a W. In the last few years we discovered two we especially like- the W Austin and our favorite W we have ever stayed at- the gorgeous W Verbier.
IMO it is silly to reject an entire brand because of a disappointing experience. After all, there are bad Ritz Carlton, St Regis, and Luxury Collection Hotels too.
IMO it is silly to reject an entire brand because of a disappointing experience. After all, there are bad Ritz Carlton, St Regis, and Luxury Collection Hotels too.
May 29, 2019, 1:20 am
#97
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There definitely is some missing the point here.
And this whole back and forth has absolutely nothing to do with SPG vs. Marriott - that's just trying to unnecessarily stir up trouble. If someone suggested that Sheraton customers likely had a higher income, and were more likely to be a consultant vs. a call center rep, vs. an RC customer, I would have made the exact same argument.
This thread is all about certain people having biases against "the look" of the W clientele, and not believing they could be successful (and extrapolating an experience or two to the brand as a whole). And that the Dockers-wearing clientele at CYs of course suggests that they have made it.
W is a luxury hotel charging $300/night on average w/with above average income guests...deal with it.
And this whole back and forth has absolutely nothing to do with SPG vs. Marriott - that's just trying to unnecessarily stir up trouble. If someone suggested that Sheraton customers likely had a higher income, and were more likely to be a consultant vs. a call center rep, vs. an RC customer, I would have made the exact same argument.
This thread is all about certain people having biases against "the look" of the W clientele, and not believing they could be successful (and extrapolating an experience or two to the brand as a whole). And that the Dockers-wearing clientele at CYs of course suggests that they have made it.
W is a luxury hotel charging $300/night on average w/with above average income guests...deal with it.
May 29, 2019, 8:41 am
#98
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I wonder how W bar and nightclub revenue is counted in these numbers. That's obviously a big difference compared to Courtyard. However, in some Ws, the bar/club seems to be operated by an independent tenant, while others are part of the hotel's operations. [It would be difficult to envision a pool bar as just a tenant sharing the swimming pool area.]
Similarly, in the Houston example (a market I don't know well), perhaps the JW has more/larger restaurants or perhaps its location makes guests more likely to eat in the hotel's own F&B outlets. Or maybe the JW just has some sorporate contracts involving high spending guests with liberal expense accounts policies. (Does anyone remember Enron?)
Similarly, in the Houston example (a market I don't know well), perhaps the JW has more/larger restaurants or perhaps its location makes guests more likely to eat in the hotel's own F&B outlets. Or maybe the JW just has some sorporate contracts involving high spending guests with liberal expense accounts policies. (Does anyone remember Enron?)
May 29, 2019, 8:43 am
#99
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It's always been a puzzle to me why anybody would stay at a W. The W in London is very expensive, yet the rooms are tiny and crap and you have to push through nightclub crowds to get in. The Ft. Lauderdale W's lobby is so dimly lit that people bump into each other and you have to use a flashlight to fill out the guest form. And the SF W tries to hide the fact that they offer inferior tiny rooms with hip music and lighting.
Seems like the W is a hotel for people who favor style (or what they erroneously perceive to be style) over substance-- the shallow nightclub crowd.
Seems like the W is a hotel for people who favor style (or what they erroneously perceive to be style) over substance-- the shallow nightclub crowd.
May 29, 2019, 8:46 am
#100
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May 29, 2019, 8:55 am
#101
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Hey, it's a puzzle to me why anyone would want to stay at an RC...thankfully that's what differently positioned brands are for :-:
May 29, 2019, 9:10 am
#102
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I believe Marriott did positioned W brand along those StR RC and LuxCol (and some of W have price to match those hotel)
As for the W brand itself ..... I would say the closest competitor outside Marriott universe for W will be Sofitel SO (not sure if Hyatt and Hilton have similar style)
Luxury yet funky and also cool and hip but not display too much aristocratic luxury like StR and less formal .... doubt the dtaff will be saying "my pleasure" that often
As for the W brand itself ..... I would say the closest competitor outside Marriott universe for W will be Sofitel SO (not sure if Hyatt and Hilton have similar style)
Luxury yet funky and also cool and hip but not display too much aristocratic luxury like StR and less formal .... doubt the dtaff will be saying "my pleasure" that often
OK everyone, I think we may he getting OT unnecessarily. It wasn’t even @UA-NYC (or me) who first made the inaccurate income comment claiming Courtyard guests make more than W guests; we just responded to show that was almost certainly preposterous.
I think some people herein are not big fans of the W brand and just piled on after the OP shared the poor stay details at the W Atlanta. (I’m not even sure I remember which one, since there are 3 Ws in Atlanta. Chances are good it’s the Midtown one if I had to guess.)
It’s perfectly fine to not like Ws. It just not accurate that all other people (even those who aren’t Millennials) agree. I’m a Gen Xer who can very much enjoy a W. But I’ll still take the St Regis first.
I think it’s also clear that the answer to our OP’s query is NO. Not all Ws are that bad. Most Ws have pretty good service. Every W has better service overall (and certainly better facilities and amenities) than almost any Courtyard. Most Ws have better service than most JWs in my experience, partly because most Ws are a lot smaller than most JWs. That being said, almost all hotels have service lapses when they are near full occupancy. And there always will be outliers that are not good representatives of their brand. The terrible W in Atlanta is right there with the terrible Four Seasons in Sydney as pitiful examples for their brands...but that doesn’t make the brands themselves bad.
I think some people herein are not big fans of the W brand and just piled on after the OP shared the poor stay details at the W Atlanta. (I’m not even sure I remember which one, since there are 3 Ws in Atlanta. Chances are good it’s the Midtown one if I had to guess.)
It’s perfectly fine to not like Ws. It just not accurate that all other people (even those who aren’t Millennials) agree. I’m a Gen Xer who can very much enjoy a W. But I’ll still take the St Regis first.
I think it’s also clear that the answer to our OP’s query is NO. Not all Ws are that bad. Most Ws have pretty good service. Every W has better service overall (and certainly better facilities and amenities) than almost any Courtyard. Most Ws have better service than most JWs in my experience, partly because most Ws are a lot smaller than most JWs. That being said, almost all hotels have service lapses when they are near full occupancy. And there always will be outliers that are not good representatives of their brand. The terrible W in Atlanta is right there with the terrible Four Seasons in Sydney as pitiful examples for their brands...but that doesn’t make the brands themselves bad.
So your theory is you can't tell a person's income by the clothes they buy, but you can by the hotel room they buy?
I like your use of "probably" in explaining the "data".
All you can tell from the data is that not all high income people stay at W's and not all low-income people stay at CY's. The average revenue is based on price, not income or social class. I agree that data rules, but you haven't cited any. You're making what you believe is a reasonable guess. The same as the person who guessed that CY guests make more money that W guests. There's no data available to back either one.
Marriott does not know the income or the net worth of their guests. I'd actually suggest the latter is more relevant than the other anyway. How can this data be available if they don't have it?
I agree with quite a bit of this. But I'm a little tired of threads that devolve into SPG is greater than Marriott and vice versa. The fake "income" argument from either side here is annoying. Responding to someone's absurd comment about income with an equally absurd opposite comment doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm just missing the point.
I hope I'm not offending either of you, because that's not my intent. I've read posts from both of you in other FT forums and generally respect your points of view. But these income posts just continue the SPG vs. Marriott sniping, which has nothing to do with the OP's post about W's. The reality is simply that maybe the W is not the best brand for the OP -- there are plenty of others to try though!
I like your use of "probably" in explaining the "data".
All you can tell from the data is that not all high income people stay at W's and not all low-income people stay at CY's. The average revenue is based on price, not income or social class. I agree that data rules, but you haven't cited any. You're making what you believe is a reasonable guess. The same as the person who guessed that CY guests make more money that W guests. There's no data available to back either one.
Marriott does not know the income or the net worth of their guests. I'd actually suggest the latter is more relevant than the other anyway. How can this data be available if they don't have it?
I agree with quite a bit of this. But I'm a little tired of threads that devolve into SPG is greater than Marriott and vice versa. The fake "income" argument from either side here is annoying. Responding to someone's absurd comment about income with an equally absurd opposite comment doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm just missing the point.
I hope I'm not offending either of you, because that's not my intent. I've read posts from both of you in other FT forums and generally respect your points of view. But these income posts just continue the SPG vs. Marriott sniping, which has nothing to do with the OP's post about W's. The reality is simply that maybe the W is not the best brand for the OP -- there are plenty of others to try though!
I think you mean to say "all W guests are high income" not "all high income people stay in Ws" and "all CY guests are low income" versus "all low income people stay in CYs." They're still obviously false generalizations.
BTW, Marriott probably thinks it knows a lot about our socioeconomic status, incomes, education levels, political and religious beliefs, home values, etc., for instance from GPS data by zip code. There was a thread in the DL forum about such data being temporarily visible to us in a place on the DL website and you would be amazed at the stuff about which DL was speculating.
I like W's I agree they have been service and higher rates than CY's (although $30 isn't much for Chicago ...)
But having the experience in life of knowing people who work in call centers, knowing people who are Harvard MBA's working in global consulting firms, knowing senior execs and board members, and knowing trust funders ... as well as talking to people staying there, its pretty clear to me that a responsible financial advisor would advise the typical guest at many -- but not all -- W's to stick with the Kia. And ... that's part of the service inconsistency issue. For example, while staying at a W recently and asking for a late checkout while walking back into the hotel, I received the standard "I'm sorry sir but we're fully committed" even when they obviously weren't, didn't really check, and didn't seem to care about elite status (it was listed as a resort so the guarantee didn't apply) . In contrast, the GM had emailed me earlier to ask about my stay (I hadn't raised any issues -- he was checking in because I was Ambassador) so I emailed him back and he immediately approved the late checkout.
Like all properties, they are highly dependent on whether they have an engaged GM.
I agree they have been service and higher rates than CY's (although $30 isn't much for Chicago ...)But having the experience in life of knowing people who work in call centers, knowing people who are Harvard MBA's working in global consulting firms, knowing senior execs and board members, and knowing trust funders ... as well as talking to people staying there, its pretty clear to me that a responsible financial advisor would advise the typical guest at many -- but not all -- W's to stick with the Kia. And ... that's part of the service inconsistency issue. For example, while staying at a W recently and asking for a late checkout while walking back into the hotel, I received the standard "I'm sorry sir but we're fully committed" even when they obviously weren't, didn't really check, and didn't seem to care about elite status (it was listed as a resort so the guarantee didn't apply) . In contrast, the GM had emailed me earlier to ask about my stay (I hadn't raised any issues -- he was checking in because I was Ambassador) so I emailed him back and he immediately approved the late checkout.
Like all properties, they are highly dependent on whether they have an engaged GM.
May 29, 2019, 9:48 am
#103
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BTW, Marriott probably thinks it knows a lot about our socioeconomic status, incomes, education levels, political and religious beliefs, home values, etc., for instance from GPS data by zip code. There was a thread in the DL forum about such data being temporarily visible to us in a place on the DL website and you would be amazed at the stuff about which DL was speculating.
I happen to live in a Chicago zip code that has low-income housing, very high-priced single family homes (very typical to see over $2M), and also attracts a lot of people in their 20's. Yet, as I've mentioned earlier, I've stayed in nearly every Marriott brand over the last 15 years. The bulk of my stays are CY, FS Marriott, Rens, RI, Sheraton, and Westin because those usually fall into a reasonable range for my employer. But also RC, JW, St. Regis, etc. If Marriott does this, I wonder how they categorize me?
May 29, 2019, 11:39 am
#104
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This is fascinating to me, and I'm sure you're correct. Sometimes this type of data might be right and sometimes it won't.
I happen to live in a Chicago zip code that has low-income housing, very high-priced single family homes (very typical to see over $2M), and also attracts a lot of people in their 20's. Yet, as I've mentioned earlier, I've stayed in nearly every Marriott brand over the last 15 years. The bulk of my stays are CY, FS Marriott, Rens, RI, Sheraton, and Westin because those usually fall into a reasonable range for my employer. But also RC, JW, St. Regis, etc. If Marriott does this, I wonder how they categorize me?
I happen to live in a Chicago zip code that has low-income housing, very high-priced single family homes (very typical to see over $2M), and also attracts a lot of people in their 20's. Yet, as I've mentioned earlier, I've stayed in nearly every Marriott brand over the last 15 years. The bulk of my stays are CY, FS Marriott, Rens, RI, Sheraton, and Westin because those usually fall into a reasonable range for my employer. But also RC, JW, St. Regis, etc. If Marriott does this, I wonder how they categorize me?
https://www.salesforce.com/company/n...018/04/180426/
But Google ... gives me ads in different languages, and Facebook (which I generally avoid) is obviously confused about my ethnicity ...
I wonder how W bar and nightclub revenue is counted in these numbers. That's obviously a big difference compared to Courtyard. However, in some Ws, the bar/club seems to be operated by an independent tenant, while others are part of the hotel's operations. [It would be difficult to envision a pool bar as just a tenant sharing the swimming pool area.]
Similarly, in the Houston example (a market I don't know well), perhaps the JW has more/larger restaurants or perhaps its location makes guests more likely to eat in the hotel's own F&B outlets. Or maybe the JW just has some sorporate contracts involving high spending guests with liberal expense accounts policies. (Does anyone remember Enron?)
Similarly, in the Houston example (a market I don't know well), perhaps the JW has more/larger restaurants or perhaps its location makes guests more likely to eat in the hotel's own F&B outlets. Or maybe the JW just has some sorporate contracts involving high spending guests with liberal expense accounts policies. (Does anyone remember Enron?)
It's only RevPAR, which just considers room revenue, so not the bar/restaurant. So, its interesting that the JW in Houston has a higher RevPAR relative to the St.R or Four Seasons in the same town. I'm hesitant to speculate on the income/net worth of their typical guests ... lol ... but I don't see many people packing coolers or sharing rooms in any of those three. The numbers are current in the study -- can't remember if its 4Q18 or 1Q19.
I agree with BHR that there is additional spend although its hard to say as people don't always eat and drink at the hotel in which they stay.
And CY,s (and competitors) despite the absence of significant F&B revenue are generally more profitable than the full service properties. Room service and restaurants are often money losers which are why limited service properties are getting more investment.
But ... many of the guests staying there were obviously entry level salespeople for an energy drink company that was having a sales meeting there (the t-shirts, signs, and stocked refrigerators by the elevators were giveaways)
May 29, 2019, 12:05 pm
#105
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I think you might be over estimating the degree to which someone selects a hotel by brand, primarily. I say this having stayed at the W Atlanta Downtown last month. My criteria were a) location related to where I needed to be in the city for work b) a Marriott family brand, as a personal night was going to be on points and c) had a pool. Oh, and had availability (several did not). I stayed at the W with a little trepidation (having read some reviews on TA that confirmed the multiple people party rooms, etc.) but from that perspective was totally fine (the hotel was primarily occupied by teenage girls there for a sports tournament). The things I disliked - the state of the hotel rooms (in poor repair, including a couple of very dubious stains on the carpet - took three interactions to get the carpet properly cleaned), the smell in the room (was worse than walking into any branch of Lush, utterly over powering), and the attitude of some of the staff. What I liked, the pre-arrival emails which enabled me to circumvent an issue before arriving, the front desk staff for the most part, management once I escalated an issue.
I don't see W as an elevated brand in the same was as a RC/ StR, but nor do I see it as the cheap and cheerful 'airport' type hotels like CY. It is somewhere in the middle. You will get some people attracted to the hip n cool image, some who choose based on brand (gotta get those points), and some based on location or facilities. I honestly can't recall the last time I decided to stay somewhere purely based on the brand - family of hotels, yes, for points reasons, but largely I care more about location, facilities, reviews, etc. than what letters are stuck on the outside of the building.
I don't see W as an elevated brand in the same was as a RC/ StR, but nor do I see it as the cheap and cheerful 'airport' type hotels like CY. It is somewhere in the middle. You will get some people attracted to the hip n cool image, some who choose based on brand (gotta get those points), and some based on location or facilities. I honestly can't recall the last time I decided to stay somewhere purely based on the brand - family of hotels, yes, for points reasons, but largely I care more about location, facilities, reviews, etc. than what letters are stuck on the outside of the building.