Someone said you can *buy* Marriott Plat on Taobao, is it true?
Apr 8, 2019, 7:11 am
#46
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Apr 8, 2019, 7:14 am
#47
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I have talked to a management I know in China, and he has asked me to keep his name and property name out, but he told me it's "common" for establishments, at down times, to have low fare rooms booked out in masses for 30-50 nights, and asking no questions. He told me he knew a few properties that would be under "Premium" category, that would post rates of 300-400 RMB per night, and rent them out for 30-50 nights. He said owners hate empty rooms sitting there, and are motivated to ask management to get them rented "whatever it takes". Even if audited, they would threaten to switch brand, and corporate usually back off; in the rare cases that corporate wouldn't back off, then they would simply switch brand, and knowing full-well Chinese government is on their side and the corporate can't do anything about it.
Apr 8, 2019, 7:15 am
#48
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Apr 8, 2019, 9:11 am
#49
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
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2.1.b. Qualifying Charges. “Qualifying Charges” are:
i. Charges incurred during a stay in a guest room at a Participating Property by a Member on his/her folio and up to two (2) additional guest rooms, including, without limitation, charges for:
A. Qualifying Rates for Stays;
B. Food and beverages (excluding alcoholic beverages where prohibited by law) and may exclude charges incurred at outlets that are not managed or operated by the Participating Property;
C. Direct-dialed in-room telephone and direct-dialed in-room fax;
D. In-room movies and video games;
provided the Member provides his/her Membership Number at the time of reservation or at check-in, stays in one of the reserved guest rooms, and pays for the charges;
2.1.d. Qualifying Stay. A “Stay" or “Qualifying Stay” means all consecutive nights a Member registers for, and personally pays and stays at any Participating Property, for which the room is billed to the Member.
i. A “Stay” is a stay of one or more consecutive nights at the same Participating Property by a Member who: (A) provides his/her Membership Number at the time of reservation or at check-in; (B) pays a Qualifying Rate or redeems a Points redemption Award or a promotional Award for the stay; and (C) stays in one of the reserved guest rooms. If a Member checks out of a guest room and then checks back in to a guest room at the same Participating Property within 24 hours, it will count as a single stay for purposes of calculating Stays and issuing Member benefits. A Member may only earn Points for up to three (3) guest rooms during any Stay if he/she stays in one of the reserved guest rooms and pays a Qualifying Rate or redeems a Points redemption Award or a promotional Award for all of the guest rooms.
ii. A “Qualifying Stay” is a credit pursuant to these Program Rules that counts toward earning Elite Night Credit. Members will only earn credit for each Qualifying Night which is part of a Stay at a Qualifying Rate (as described in 2.1.e.), for the guest room the Member personally pays for and stays in, and not for any additional guest rooms. Members do not receive Elite Night Credit on stays at Non-Qualifying Rates (see 2.1.f.).
For the purpose of earning elite night credit, yes, its a breach of Bonvoy T&C.
But the transaction most likely is perfectly legal in terms of supplying room and paying for the said room.
No law prohibit someone to book a room in local Moxy with prepaid non refundable rate, and dont bother to show (or just do olci and go somewhere else)
Ethically the hotel should keep the room available for me during my reservation period.
Apr 8, 2019, 10:24 am
#50
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From Bonvoy T&C
2.1.b. Qualifying Charges. “Qualifying Charges” are:
i. Charges incurred during a stay in a guest room at a Participating Property by a Member on his/her folio and up to two (2) additional guest rooms, including, without limitation, charges for:
A. Qualifying Rates for Stays;
B. Food and beverages (excluding alcoholic beverages where prohibited by law) and may exclude charges incurred at outlets that are not managed or operated by the Participating Property;
C. Direct-dialed in-room telephone and direct-dialed in-room fax;
D. In-room movies and video games;
provided the Member provides his/her Membership Number at the time of reservation or at check-in, stays in one of the reserved guest rooms, and pays for the charges;
2.1.d. Qualifying Stay. A “Stay" or “Qualifying Stay” means all consecutive nights a Member registers for, and personally pays and stays at any Participating Property, for which the room is billed to the Member.
i. A “Stay” is a stay of one or more consecutive nights at the same Participating Property by a Member who: (A) provides his/her Membership Number at the time of reservation or at check-in; (B) pays a Qualifying Rate or redeems a Points redemption Award or a promotional Award for the stay; and (C) stays in one of the reserved guest rooms. If a Member checks out of a guest room and then checks back in to a guest room at the same Participating Property within 24 hours, it will count as a single stay for purposes of calculating Stays and issuing Member benefits. A Member may only earn Points for up to three (3) guest rooms during any Stay if he/she stays in one of the reserved guest rooms and pays a Qualifying Rate or redeems a Points redemption Award or a promotional Award for all of the guest rooms.
ii. A “Qualifying Stay” is a credit pursuant to these Program Rules that counts toward earning Elite Night Credit. Members will only earn credit for each Qualifying Night which is part of a Stay at a Qualifying Rate (as described in 2.1.e.), for the guest room the Member personally pays for and stays in, and not for any additional guest rooms. Members do not receive Elite Night Credit on stays at Non-Qualifying Rates (see 2.1.f.).
For the purpose of earning elite night credit, yes, its a breach of Bonvoy T&C.
But the transaction most likely is perfectly legal in terms of supplying room and paying for the said room.
No law prohibit someone to book a room in local Moxy with prepaid non refundable rate, and dont bother to show (or just do olci and go somewhere else)
Ethically the hotel should keep the room available for me during my reservation period.
2.1.b. Qualifying Charges. “Qualifying Charges” are:
i. Charges incurred during a stay in a guest room at a Participating Property by a Member on his/her folio and up to two (2) additional guest rooms, including, without limitation, charges for:
A. Qualifying Rates for Stays;
B. Food and beverages (excluding alcoholic beverages where prohibited by law) and may exclude charges incurred at outlets that are not managed or operated by the Participating Property;
C. Direct-dialed in-room telephone and direct-dialed in-room fax;
D. In-room movies and video games;
provided the Member provides his/her Membership Number at the time of reservation or at check-in, stays in one of the reserved guest rooms, and pays for the charges;
2.1.d. Qualifying Stay. A “Stay" or “Qualifying Stay” means all consecutive nights a Member registers for, and personally pays and stays at any Participating Property, for which the room is billed to the Member.
i. A “Stay” is a stay of one or more consecutive nights at the same Participating Property by a Member who: (A) provides his/her Membership Number at the time of reservation or at check-in; (B) pays a Qualifying Rate or redeems a Points redemption Award or a promotional Award for the stay; and (C) stays in one of the reserved guest rooms. If a Member checks out of a guest room and then checks back in to a guest room at the same Participating Property within 24 hours, it will count as a single stay for purposes of calculating Stays and issuing Member benefits. A Member may only earn Points for up to three (3) guest rooms during any Stay if he/she stays in one of the reserved guest rooms and pays a Qualifying Rate or redeems a Points redemption Award or a promotional Award for all of the guest rooms.
ii. A “Qualifying Stay” is a credit pursuant to these Program Rules that counts toward earning Elite Night Credit. Members will only earn credit for each Qualifying Night which is part of a Stay at a Qualifying Rate (as described in 2.1.e.), for the guest room the Member personally pays for and stays in, and not for any additional guest rooms. Members do not receive Elite Night Credit on stays at Non-Qualifying Rates (see 2.1.f.).
For the purpose of earning elite night credit, yes, its a breach of Bonvoy T&C.
But the transaction most likely is perfectly legal in terms of supplying room and paying for the said room.
No law prohibit someone to book a room in local Moxy with prepaid non refundable rate, and dont bother to show (or just do olci and go somewhere else)
Ethically the hotel should keep the room available for me during my reservation period.
Lots of people book a room for a day during a weird layover at an airport hotel. It isn't uncommon at all. Other people book a room or suite for business purposes; maybe cocktail receptions in conjunction with a conference or meeting, job interviews, tailors doing custom suit measuring, and other traveling tradesmen. All of these uses are compliant stays.
Apr 8, 2019, 1:00 pm
#51
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,799
I believe how you use the room is not Marriotts concern.
In order to get Bonvoy credit, you just need to check in "personally" .... need clarification if olci can be considered as personally check in .... and pays for the room.
The term "stays" pretty much shows that you dont have to actually sleep in the room.
Mattress runners ... who "personally" pays and check in to a room (and leave the room unused pretty much didnt breaach the t&c)
In order to get Bonvoy credit, you just need to check in "personally" .... need clarification if olci can be considered as personally check in .... and pays for the room.
The term "stays" pretty much shows that you dont have to actually sleep in the room.
Mattress runners ... who "personally" pays and check in to a room (and leave the room unused pretty much didnt breaach the t&c)
Apr 8, 2019, 4:40 pm
#52
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,302
I believe how you use the room is not Marriotts concern.
In order to get Bonvoy credit, you just need to check in "personally" .... need clarification if olci can be considered as personally check in .... and pays for the room.
The term "stays" pretty much shows that you dont have to actually sleep in the room.
In order to get Bonvoy credit, you just need to check in "personally" .... need clarification if olci can be considered as personally check in .... and pays for the room.
The term "stays" pretty much shows that you dont have to actually sleep in the room.
Apr 8, 2019, 4:54 pm
#53
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Programs: Delta Diamond, Marriott Ambassador & Lifetime Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, United Silver
Posts: 6,334
Well, most of us think "breakfast" means more than a muffin and coffee but "breakfast" isn't defined. Lots of legitimate customers do not sleep or otherwise "stay" in a room overnight.
Apr 8, 2019, 5:01 pm
#54
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
Many flyertalk members in the west argue this issue as if China follow rule-of-law norms.
It's time western members face the mirror and repeat after me.
"Chinese hold these truths to be self evidence, there is no rule of Law in China, that they are endowed by their Creator (the Communist Government) with certain unalienable duties, that among these are Obey, Kowtow, and Surrender”
When you rely on a single market for large chunks of profit, that market has power. Unlike USA where commerce and politics can be separated, China uses economics as political weapons. Unlike USA where courts are independent, Chinese courts is the enforcement arm of the communist government. The 3 branches cooperate "with harmony" - not the checks and balance used in US.
Marriott won't do anything because China has too many hotels and other chains are willing to "bend the knee" if Marriott refuses. Those bribes will continue to happening or else nothing gets done. Children of party members get comfy well-paid jobs in the China division (take a page out from big financial institutions like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley).
Think about it this way. Flyertalk members here find loopholes in rules to maximize their own benefits. The Chinese just reach a higher level, they don't need to follow the rules at all and outright buy the status called Marriott's bluff because Marriott is just a company - the Chinese counterpart is company in the shell backed by State-Owned-Enterprise (aka the Chinese Communist Government). Marriott vs Chinese Government in China, Marriott loses every time.
It's time western members face the mirror and repeat after me.
"Chinese hold these truths to be self evidence, there is no rule of Law in China, that they are endowed by their Creator (the Communist Government) with certain unalienable duties, that among these are Obey, Kowtow, and Surrender”
When you rely on a single market for large chunks of profit, that market has power. Unlike USA where commerce and politics can be separated, China uses economics as political weapons. Unlike USA where courts are independent, Chinese courts is the enforcement arm of the communist government. The 3 branches cooperate "with harmony" - not the checks and balance used in US.
Marriott won't do anything because China has too many hotels and other chains are willing to "bend the knee" if Marriott refuses. Those bribes will continue to happening or else nothing gets done. Children of party members get comfy well-paid jobs in the China division (take a page out from big financial institutions like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley).
Think about it this way. Flyertalk members here find loopholes in rules to maximize their own benefits. The Chinese just reach a higher level, they don't need to follow the rules at all and outright buy the status called Marriott's bluff because Marriott is just a company - the Chinese counterpart is company in the shell backed by State-Owned-Enterprise (aka the Chinese Communist Government). Marriott vs Chinese Government in China, Marriott loses every time.
Apr 8, 2019, 5:10 pm
#55
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,302
