Seems like Bonvoy is a HORRIBLE deal for RC elites
Mar 24, 2019, 12:03 pm
#31
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,176
If you actually think a real Ritz-Carlton type of customer (much like a Four Seasons customer) is relying on a free room upgrade or begging for free food in the morning instead of getting one from their Ritz-Carlton STARS travel agent or simply paying out of pocket (as a real person of means would) then you truly don't understand the travel market top-tier hotels are targeting.
Loyalty programs are for the petty bourgeoisie who want to pretend they're living the high life but can't actually spend like the truly wealthy do. If there's something you actually want, pay for it. Why all the cloak and dagger games to get something for pennies on the dollar if you have wealth you're willing to expend and the experience is obviously far more important?
Loyalty programs are for the petty bourgeoisie who want to pretend they're living the high life but can't actually spend like the truly wealthy do. If there's something you actually want, pay for it. Why all the cloak and dagger games to get something for pennies on the dollar if you have wealth you're willing to expend and the experience is obviously far more important?
wannabee true rich like to act as if they don't care about loyalty benefits - truly rich people do care about value and recognition and know how to keep costs down.
i reckon I'd spend $25-$50 k usd a year at Ritz's if they just gave me free breakfast. I just booked a suite at a property that is 300 Euro a night more than the Ritz in same city. Why? They gave my child (under 12) free breakfast and a free cot. The recognition is more important to me than money.
The avg income at Ritz consuners I believe is fairly low. Often mid mgt who save up for that annual vacation and blow through money to justify hard work. Nothing wrong with that of course.
But Chanel,.Ferrari, multi million dollar home real estate agencies all have loyalty programs.
Last edited by SHLTP; Mar 24, 2019 at 12:10 pm
Mar 24, 2019, 1:39 pm
#32
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: 42.1% in PDX , 49.9% in PVG & 8% in the air somewhere
Programs: Marriott Ambassador Elite, UA 1K, AS MVP GLD 75K, DL Pt
Posts: 1,086
The whole merged program is a smoke/mirror devaluing, one could argue if Marriott and Starwood hadn't merged would SPG have taken steps to devalue. The whole thing is "business" and the business isn't about charity, it's about maximum profit and enough incentive to the big spenders and attractions from other brands.
Mar 24, 2019, 2:31 pm
#33
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: Marriott Ambassador/United 1K
Posts: 68
I've seen countless millionaires (and one billionaire) hoard/care about points. I'm in the .0001% income bracket in the United States, and I love points and getting free food and not paying for a room. Why do you think people who have Amex Black are on this forum?
If you actually think a real Ritz-Carlton type of customer (much like a Four Seasons customer) is relying on a free room upgrade or begging for free food in the morning instead of getting one from their Ritz-Carlton STARS travel agent or simply paying out of pocket (as a real person of means would) then you truly don't understand the travel market top-tier hotels are targeting.
Loyalty programs are for the petty bourgeoisie who want to pretend they're living the high life but can't actually spend like the truly wealthy do. If there's something you actually want, pay for it. Why all the cloak and dagger games to get something for pennies on the dollar if you have wealth you're willing to expend and the experience is obviously far more important?
Loyalty programs are for the petty bourgeoisie who want to pretend they're living the high life but can't actually spend like the truly wealthy do. If there's something you actually want, pay for it. Why all the cloak and dagger games to get something for pennies on the dollar if you have wealth you're willing to expend and the experience is obviously far more important?
Last edited by hhoope01; Mar 24, 2019 at 6:47 pm Reason: Removed attack on another poster. Please see FT Rule 12
Mar 24, 2019, 4:57 pm
#34
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: California
Programs: Marriott: Titanium, SQ: Gold, UA: Silver, Hilton: Diamond, Wyndham - Diamond, TR - Diamond
Posts: 233
If you actually think a real Ritz-Carlton type of customer (much like a Four Seasons customer) is relying on a free room upgrade or begging for free food in the morning instead of getting one from their Ritz-Carlton STARS travel agent or simply paying out of pocket (as a real person of means would) then you truly don't understand the travel market top-tier hotels are targeting.
Loyalty programs are for the petty bourgeoisie who want to pretend they're living the high life but can't actually spend like the truly wealthy do. If there's something you actually want, pay for it. Why all the cloak and dagger games to get something for pennies on the dollar if you have wealth you're willing to expend and the experience is obviously far more important?
Loyalty programs are for the petty bourgeoisie who want to pretend they're living the high life but can't actually spend like the truly wealthy do. If there's something you actually want, pay for it. Why all the cloak and dagger games to get something for pennies on the dollar if you have wealth you're willing to expend and the experience is obviously far more important?
Mar 24, 2019, 4:59 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,098
Were the double nights for RC stays based on having some sort of credit card, or being US based properties? I have never received it, my main number of RC stays would be in Hong Kong, but I only have an award stay at NY Central Park as my US experience at RC.
Hilton has a points based criteria for Gold and Diamond, so there it is possible to get a benefit from higher spends per night.
Hilton has a points based criteria for Gold and Diamond, so there it is possible to get a benefit from higher spends per night.
Mar 24, 2019, 5:53 pm
#36
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: AA, Delta, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 250
Were the double nights for RC stays based on having some sort of credit card, or being US based properties? I have never received it, my main number of RC stays would be in Hong Kong, but I only have an award stay at NY Central Park as my US experience at RC.
Hilton has a points based criteria for Gold and Diamond, so there it is possible to get a benefit from higher spends per night.
Hilton has a points based criteria for Gold and Diamond, so there it is possible to get a benefit from higher spends per night.
Mar 24, 2019, 6:28 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,098
I see, I guess I just misunderstood the posts further up. Basically not important any longer, I was just curious.
Mar 24, 2019, 6:34 pm
#38
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: AA, Delta, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 250
It was a little quirk in the rewards program. The funny thing is we had a three night stay over New Years, the three regular night credits went on ‘18. The three additional ones since they were promo nights were accredited like other promo after the stay in my '19 total. So in away I got 3 rollover night this year.
Mar 24, 2019, 6:45 pm
#39
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
Correct me if i'm wrong, but the only way to get anything approaching worthwhile benefits from Bonvoy is to be Plat or higher. There's no spend component or multiplier, so 50 nights is 50 nights. This means, the guy staying 50 nights @$110/night will earn Plat, while a RC frequent guest that stays 10 night at $700/night is SOL. Shouldn't there be some sort of multiplier when you stay in top category hotels for the nights stayed? Sort of like buying J or F flights will earn you 2-3X the EQM of flying in coach? Shouldn't a RC night count 2x a Courtyard Marriott for elite qualification? Seems like it's unfair to make it the same amount of nights, when certain guests are bringing the brand a lot more $ even if they don't make 50 nights/year. No?
Mar 24, 2019, 6:52 pm
#40
Moderator, Marriott Bonvoy & FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: McKinney, TX, USA
Programs: United Silver; AA Plat/2MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,727
Lets please keep posts concerning the thread topic and not other posters. It is OK to disagree, but lets not resort to name calling and trying to shame other posters. Everyone can state their opinion concerning some aspect of the Bonvoy program, but keep the comments away from stating opinions about other posters.
Thank you.
Chip (hhoope01)
Marriott Bonvoy Co-Moderator
Thank you.
Chip (hhoope01)
Marriott Bonvoy Co-Moderator
Mar 25, 2019, 6:13 am
#41
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bangkok
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Titanium, BAEC Silver, TK Miles & Smiles Elite
Posts: 2,205
I look at it like this (and please don't quibble with the numbers because that's not the point):
You stay 50 nights at a Courtyard costing $100 a night and get Platinum benefits next year for your next 50 nights at a Courtyard still paying your affordable rate of $100 night but this time with some Platinum benefits including a $10 breakfast. You've accrued $100x10ptsx50nights + 500ptsx50 nights = 75000 points and you redeem the lot for one night of luxury at a RC without getting breakfast or you redeem them for a few nights at Sheratons, Marriotts or Le Meridien and enjoy their lounges while hoping you don't look out of place because you're clearly a Courtyard kind of customer.
You stay 50 nights at a RC costing $500 a night and get Platinum benefits next year for your next 50 nights at a RC still paying your affordable rate of $500 a night but this time with some Platinum benefits (haha, sucker!). You've accrued $500x10x50 + 1000x50 = 300,000 points and you redeem the lot for either a few nights at your favourite RC (still no breakfast!) or several years at the local Courtyard enjoying your $10 breakfast.
Neither scenario is widespread. People stay and redeem broadly in the category of hotel that they usually pay for because that's all the points they can accrue unless they save up for an aspirational property and blow their points on a few nights hoping desperately that they look like they are used to it.
I see no injustice in Courtyard people accruing fewer points and using them to stay at an RC or RC customers accruing many more points and choosing where to spend them as long as the benefits per brand are clear and delivered. I think the greater risk to RCs is that the StR brand offers clearly better value for elites now and the hotels themselves can be interchangeable. It would be interesting to see the statistics of elites booking direct into RCs vs StRs. I'd bet that over time StRs become more popular and RCs are forced by capitalist competition to compete in that segment. Even $500 a night people look for value.
You stay 50 nights at a Courtyard costing $100 a night and get Platinum benefits next year for your next 50 nights at a Courtyard still paying your affordable rate of $100 night but this time with some Platinum benefits including a $10 breakfast. You've accrued $100x10ptsx50nights + 500ptsx50 nights = 75000 points and you redeem the lot for one night of luxury at a RC without getting breakfast or you redeem them for a few nights at Sheratons, Marriotts or Le Meridien and enjoy their lounges while hoping you don't look out of place because you're clearly a Courtyard kind of customer.
You stay 50 nights at a RC costing $500 a night and get Platinum benefits next year for your next 50 nights at a RC still paying your affordable rate of $500 a night but this time with some Platinum benefits (haha, sucker!). You've accrued $500x10x50 + 1000x50 = 300,000 points and you redeem the lot for either a few nights at your favourite RC (still no breakfast!) or several years at the local Courtyard enjoying your $10 breakfast.
Neither scenario is widespread. People stay and redeem broadly in the category of hotel that they usually pay for because that's all the points they can accrue unless they save up for an aspirational property and blow their points on a few nights hoping desperately that they look like they are used to it.
I see no injustice in Courtyard people accruing fewer points and using them to stay at an RC or RC customers accruing many more points and choosing where to spend them as long as the benefits per brand are clear and delivered. I think the greater risk to RCs is that the StR brand offers clearly better value for elites now and the hotels themselves can be interchangeable. It would be interesting to see the statistics of elites booking direct into RCs vs StRs. I'd bet that over time StRs become more popular and RCs are forced by capitalist competition to compete in that segment. Even $500 a night people look for value.
Mar 25, 2019, 6:24 am
#42
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
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Posts: 6,798
Agreed, but I see this as analogous to the Y v. J EQM earning I mentioned earlier. J passengers pay more and receive a better seat, sure, but since they are paying so much more they generally also earn 2x EQM vs. those traveling on a Y ticket. It seems like it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to do the same here. I think the IHG program works in a similar way. You earn points for stays with the price as a component, and status can be earned through total nights or total points. Much like you can earn airline status through EQM (with multipliers for premium cabins) or through segments.
Mar 25, 2019, 6:26 am
#43
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I think the greater risk to RCs is that the StR brand offers clearly better value for elites now and the hotels themselves can be interchangeable. It would be interesting to see the statistics of elites booking direct into RCs vs StRs. I'd bet that over time StRs become more popular and RCs are forced by capitalist competition to compete in that segment. Even $500 a night people look for value.
Mar 25, 2019, 6:56 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Gold, GHA Tit, BA Gold, Turkish Elite
Posts: 8,712
I am willing to reconsider, but I have never been a big StR fan, and I continue to choose RC over StR in cities that have both. Perhaps it''s because I am a creature of habit and i'm familiar with the RC properties, but whenever I scope out a competing StR it never looks that great. Which StR properties are standouts that beat the RC in that town head to head (if you don't mind)?
I don’t actually think there is that much of an overlap in cities where they are located, but New York and Bali immediately come to mind.
Mar 25, 2019, 7:12 am
#45
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I’ve stayed at a lot of St Regis’s and maybe 10 RC’s and I have to say the worst St Regis is pretty close to the best RC for me, but obviously it’s a matter of taste.
I don’t actually think there is that much of an overlap in cities where they are located, but New York and Bali immediately come to mind.