May 11, 2019, 9:00 am
Last edit by: SanDiego1K
Description of resolution can be found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31088204-post759.html
Outrageous No-Show Fee Incurred At St. Regis Aspen
Apr 1, 2019, 12:02 am
#556
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York
Programs: AA EXP1M, Marriott LTT, DL Gld, UA Slvr, HH Gld
Posts: 173
I guess you are saying a company can have any terms as long as they document them.
I have a big problem with these terms. I pre-paid for the room with points. I fully understand that if I cancel after the cancellation date, I will lose the points.
But why would a hotel then charge me $899 if I don't come, and nothing if I come. If I cancel they keep the points and can easily re-sell the room. This makes no sense to me at all. I have no idea how you can think this is ok.
I have a big problem with these terms. I pre-paid for the room with points. I fully understand that if I cancel after the cancellation date, I will lose the points.
But why would a hotel then charge me $899 if I don't come, and nothing if I come. If I cancel they keep the points and can easily re-sell the room. This makes no sense to me at all. I have no idea how you can think this is ok.
Any reasonable interpretation of "no-show" charge on a reservation for which "funds" have already been taken from customer's account (be it a credit card charge or points) is the no-show. The situation described by OP is absolutely outrageous, but I'm glad I read this very convoluted thread. I was skeptical about this rule so went back and checked my own existing point reservation at the London Edition. Here's the only thing under "cancellation policy":
Cancelling Your Reservation
Cancelling Your Reservation
- You may cancel your reservation for no charge until July 21, 2019 (1 day[s] before arrival).
- Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card
3.2.c. The standard guarantee and cancellation policies of a Participating Property will apply to Award Redemption Stay reservations including, without limitation, all minimum length of stay requirements, credit card guarantee requirements and charges for late cancellation, no-shows, and early check-out.
ii. If a Member fails to cancel a guaranteed Award Redemption Stay reservation within the permitted cancellation period, the Participating Property will charge the applicable cancellation fee to the credit card provided by the Member at the time the reservation was made and the Points that were redeemed will be re-deposited into the Member’s Account.
ii. If a Member fails to cancel a guaranteed Award Redemption Stay reservation within the permitted cancellation period, the Participating Property will charge the applicable cancellation fee to the credit card provided by the Member at the time the reservation was made and the Points that were redeemed will be re-deposited into the Member’s Account.
And of course, fine print aside, the behavior of the property in this particular case is absolutely atrocious, as are the arguments of the people defending it here as being "good business". Keep it up and pretty soon we'll have some senator calling for the breakup of "hotel chains that are too big" in the name of consumer protection...
Apr 1, 2019, 6:48 am
#557
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
Here here!
Any reasonable interpretation of "no-show" charge on a reservation for which "funds" have already been taken from customer's account (be it a credit card charge or points) is the no-show. The situation described by OP is absolutely outrageous, but I'm glad I read this very convoluted thread. I was skeptical about this rule so went back and checked my own existing point reservation at the London Edition. Here's the only thing under "cancellation policy":[h3]
I also looked at the confirmation email and there's nothing to contradict that. My interpretation has always been that I have "made a prepayment" (since points have been deducted from my account) and they would retail "all or part of that". However, after reading this thread I did go to Marriott's general T&C's and did find this gem:
I will continue to assume that absent any information now or at the time of booking of what the "applicable cancellation fee" may be, my original interpretation is correct and would prevail in court if it came to that.
And of course, fine print aside, the behavior of the property in this particular case is absolutely atrocious, as are the arguments of the people defending it here as being "good business". Keep it up and pretty soon we'll have some senator calling for the breakup of "hotel chains that are too big" in the name of consumer protection...
Any reasonable interpretation of "no-show" charge on a reservation for which "funds" have already been taken from customer's account (be it a credit card charge or points) is the no-show. The situation described by OP is absolutely outrageous, but I'm glad I read this very convoluted thread. I was skeptical about this rule so went back and checked my own existing point reservation at the London Edition. Here's the only thing under "cancellation policy":[h3]
I also looked at the confirmation email and there's nothing to contradict that. My interpretation has always been that I have "made a prepayment" (since points have been deducted from my account) and they would retail "all or part of that". However, after reading this thread I did go to Marriott's general T&C's and did find this gem:
I will continue to assume that absent any information now or at the time of booking of what the "applicable cancellation fee" may be, my original interpretation is correct and would prevail in court if it came to that.
And of course, fine print aside, the behavior of the property in this particular case is absolutely atrocious, as are the arguments of the people defending it here as being "good business". Keep it up and pretty soon we'll have some senator calling for the breakup of "hotel chains that are too big" in the name of consumer protection...
- You may cancel your reservation for no charge until April 1, 2019 (30 day[s] before arrival).
- Please note that we will assess a fee of 2034.09 USD if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card. This fee equals your room charge for all the nights of your reservation.
Apr 1, 2019, 6:54 am
#558
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
Wow.
First, the man's name is William, not "Mathew." He's in the top few of the most significant posters here on FT.
Sorry talking to a friend named Matt. mad cow disease
I think it's best that I retire from this discussion now. You and I will never agree. If you run a customer-facing business, I hope that I don't accidentally do business with you. We just have different philosophies about how customers should be treated.
First, the man's name is William, not "Mathew." He's in the top few of the most significant posters here on FT.
Sorry talking to a friend named Matt. mad cow disease
I think it's best that I retire from this discussion now. You and I will never agree. If you run a customer-facing business, I hope that I don't accidentally do business with you. We just have different philosophies about how customers should be treated.
but if read my note, I gave him the CEOs email. My last too. We will wait and see what Arne says. and i agree with your hope.
Apr 1, 2019, 7:03 am
#559
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
"Rate Details
Member Rate, non-refundable if cancelled less than 60 days before arrival
Holding Your Reservation
"Rate Details
Redemption, non-refundable if cancelled less than 60 days before arrival
Additional Information
The first rate details are for cash reservations and describes a cancellation fee equal to the base room rate. The second example is for points reservations and does not list the potential fee.
Member Rate, non-refundable if cancelled less than 60 days before arrival
Holding Your Reservation
- We will need a credit card number to reserve your room 60 days before your expected arrival.
- You may cancel your reservation for no charge until October 14, 2019 (60 day[s] before arrival).
- Please note that we will assess a fee of 949.05 USD if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card. This fee equals your room charge for all the nights of your reservation.
- Please be prepared to show proof of eligibility for your rate (such as a membership card, corporate or government identification card, or proof of your age).
- Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change."
"Rate Details
Redemption, non-refundable if cancelled less than 60 days before arrival
Additional Information
- For detailed information regarding property category level and
- other Redemption information please visit the property online
- at www.marriott.com.Thank You
- We will need a credit card number to reserve your room 60 days before your expected arrival.
- You may cancel your reservation for no charge until October 14, 2019 (60 day[s] before arrival).
- Please be prepared to show proof of eligibility for your rate (such as a membership card, corporate or government identification card, or proof of your age).
- Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change."
The first rate details are for cash reservations and describes a cancellation fee equal to the base room rate. The second example is for points reservations and does not list the potential fee.
Last edited by rny321; Apr 1, 2019 at 7:17 am
Apr 1, 2019, 7:34 am
#560
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
also look at Wiilam's post #30 in Points advance feb 20 where he says the Cash is not the policy. There was another thread where he stated it was his opinion
but if read my note, I gave him the CEOs email. My last too. We will wait and see what Arne says. and i agree with your hope.
but if read my note, I gave him the CEOs email. My last too. We will wait and see what Arne says. and i agree with your hope.
He might be better off writing or tweeting to Mr. DeBaets. I'm no fan of Arne but we don't have any historical reports of ridiculous cancellation policies or hitting people with $2000 in charges because of whether dealys. This is all about the blockchain.
Apr 1, 2019, 8:42 am
#561
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
OP did not cancel. He was not a no-show. He called the property and advised that he would be arriving late, on day 2 of his 5-day pre-paid reservation, due to a flight cancellation. The hotel manager should be ashamed of himself that this is not yet sorted out as an error and credited back. Totally egregious behavior by the property and I'm surprised that any poster on FT believes it is ok for the hotel to charge this.
Apr 1, 2019, 9:46 am
#562
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Delta Diamond, Marriott Ambassador & Lifetime Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, United Silver
Posts: 6,334
OP did not cancel. He was not a no-show. He called the property and advised that he would be arriving late, on day 2 of his 5-day pre-paid reservation, due to a flight cancellation. The hotel manager should be ashamed of himself that this is not yet sorted out as an error and credited back. Totally egregious behavior by the property and I'm surprised that any poster on FT believes it is ok for the hotel to charge this.
Apr 1, 2019, 10:20 am
#563
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
What concerns me is this hasn't been addressed, despite it receiving some publicity in the popular blogs. You know Marriott's PR team read those reports. You also damn know Marriott's lurkers read this thread. Surely, the property has heard about this too. So, where's the resolution? I really hope this actually happened and we aren't getting punked. I just can't believe Marriott wouldn't resolve this.
Apr 1, 2019, 1:34 pm
#564
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: bay area, ca
Programs: UA plat, , aa plat, marriott LT titanium
Posts: 4,833
I think the real issue is - THEY DON'T CARE and ...... it's not affecting their business - but I do hope that if this becomes any more widespread that their is some law/legislation (and I'm really not in favor of regulation in general) making it illegal to change form of payment unilaterally.
I just won't stay at places that have a policy like this - much as I stopped staying at places with resort fees - want to raise your rates - fine, but don't add some bogus charge (one hotel started at $25/night and is now up to 65 for NO benefit that I don't already get by status- so I vote with my feet as I will with this silly policy.
I really wish this would get picked up by the larger news - not for this hotel but for the idea that hotels can do this (and are) in more than one place and without saying exactly what the fees are, in some cases, until after the fact.
Apr 1, 2019, 1:48 pm
#565
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
OP did not cancel. He was not a no-show. He called the property and advised that he would be arriving late, on day 2 of his 5-day pre-paid reservation, due to a flight cancellation. The hotel manager should be ashamed of himself that this is not yet sorted out as an error and credited back. Totally egregious behavior by the property and I'm surprised that any poster on FT believes it is ok for the hotel to charge this.
Large companies factor in weather related issues as a cost of doing business. The travel industry is susceptible to that - especially airlines, car rentals and hotels. Maybe this is an organized effort on behalf of the hotel industry to shift the liability for weather related issues to the customer. However, that could change back during the next recession when occupancy rates start going down again.
Apr 1, 2019, 3:22 pm
#566
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
Actually, there is mainly one poster that believes it is okay, and that person has been aggressive with that stance. It is to the point where I am thinking this is a troll who is purposefully trying to get a reaction of of us for his/her amusement. The best way to handle a troll is to ignore them, not argue with them.
So as an owner, it is my right to get paid for a room that I potentially could not rent.
However I have conceded to Susan's point "Totally egregious behavior by the property owner" If he had talked to my GM and told might be late and gotten there 30 min after the cut-off time, my GM would have cut him a break. But one thing nobody has done is thank the hotel for not having cancelled his whole reservation but only that one night.
Again my hints;
1) read the fine print esp if your ownership changes
2) document whom you talk to and when Talk to reservation manager first, then GM.
3) honey if you want them to "break" the rules. From my point in this situation, I don't care if you are a marriott/spg lifetime whatever or a first time hotel user (unless your muckymuck came from staying at my hotel) - I would treat you the same in this situation. But you can't count how many no-shows, late cancelations we get whom beg to have the rules dropped (excuses such as my dog would not let me go).
Apr 1, 2019, 3:41 pm
#568
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
As I mentioned before, inclement weather affects many industries. Some of those are construction, airlines, restaurants, hotels, retail establishments, etc. A competent business manager/owner plans for inclement weather costs in the company's business plan and pricing structure.
Weather and acts of God are a fact of life in corporate America. Marriotts are not special in any way when it comes to inclement weather. It sounds like the hotel in this case wants to shift this element of the cost of doing business to the consumer.
I should also point out that hotels often benefit from inclement weather as well. If a customer can't leave, then the customer has to pay the room rate for an extra night.
Weather and acts of God are a fact of life in corporate America. Marriotts are not special in any way when it comes to inclement weather. It sounds like the hotel in this case wants to shift this element of the cost of doing business to the consumer.
I should also point out that hotels often benefit from inclement weather as well. If a customer can't leave, then the customer has to pay the room rate for an extra night.
Apr 1, 2019, 3:51 pm
#569
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 85
Bad Manners? I find it to be a service. If those people don't like getting a bunch of complaints or questions about their tactics, then they are well within their rights to contact the OP and get this settled.
I wish I had been able to think to find these email addresses when I had one hour to either cancel my ritz Carlton in Maui when they said my cancellation penalty was going to be $2350 for the two nights I had booked and that I was to disregard anything to the contrary from Marriott. I know I wouldn't have received any help, but knowing I contacted the top level would have made me feel better. The final insult was that their room rate for the next 60 days never exceeded $800 per night but they wanted to rip me for almost $1200 if I cancelled.
Since that time I have obtained the Hilton aspire card and now am diamond since coincidentally after the reservation tussle, they downgraded me from platinum to gold. So I am dumping my Bonvoy points on this next trip and moving on. I would also like to thank the OP for helping to spread the word on this tactic and help people understand their miles are not the currency they think they are.
I wish I had been able to think to find these email addresses when I had one hour to either cancel my ritz Carlton in Maui when they said my cancellation penalty was going to be $2350 for the two nights I had booked and that I was to disregard anything to the contrary from Marriott. I know I wouldn't have received any help, but knowing I contacted the top level would have made me feel better. The final insult was that their room rate for the next 60 days never exceeded $800 per night but they wanted to rip me for almost $1200 if I cancelled.
Since that time I have obtained the Hilton aspire card and now am diamond since coincidentally after the reservation tussle, they downgraded me from platinum to gold. So I am dumping my Bonvoy points on this next trip and moving on. I would also like to thank the OP for helping to spread the word on this tactic and help people understand their miles are not the currency they think they are.