May 11, 2019, 9:00 am
Last edit by: SanDiego1K
Description of resolution can be found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31088204-post759.html
Outrageous No-Show Fee Incurred At St. Regis Aspen
Mar 13, 2019, 3:29 pm
#16
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Programs: Marriott Platinum - LT Gold
Posts: 688
As a hotel manager all of this is 100% kosher. I understand that the OP is upset but it is all within the T&C. It also follows the cancellation policy. I have worked in many a resort (beach and ski) that have had greater than normal cancellation periods. It is very difficult for these hotels to resell rooms at the last minute. A city property is much different. All in all this is why travel insurance was created. No need to cry over spilled milk.
Otherwise tons of people would just call their hotels and tell them their planes have been cancelled etc if that would be a valid reason to cancel a non cancellable reservation. Would be a mess.
Last edited by joakgarp; Mar 13, 2019 at 3:36 pm
Mar 13, 2019, 3:38 pm
#18
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
As a hotel manager all of this is 100% kosher. I understand that the OP is upset but it is all within the T&C. It also follows the cancellation policy. I have worked in many a resort (beach and ski) that have had greater than normal cancellation periods. It is very difficult for these hotels to resell rooms at the last minute. A city property is much different. All in all this is why travel insurance was created. No need to cry over spilled milk.
Mar 13, 2019, 3:44 pm
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 31
hotelboy and joakgarp, with respect, I think you are both missing the point.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
Mar 13, 2019, 3:54 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
hotelboy and joakgarp, with respect, I think you are both missing the point.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:10 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I agree here. Op, Just take it up with your travel insurance and sort it out by yourself. The hotel is doing the right thing here all according to t&c. Is it the hotel's fault and loose money when airlines are not doing what they are supposed to?
Otherwise tons of people would just call their hotels and tell them their planes have been cancelled etc if that would be a valid reason to cancel a non cancellable reservation. Would be a mess.
Otherwise tons of people would just call their hotels and tell them their planes have been cancelled etc if that would be a valid reason to cancel a non cancellable reservation. Would be a mess.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:13 pm
#22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
"We would also like to bring to your attention that a 30-day cancellation policy is in effect for the dates of your reservation. If changes are required within 30 days of your arrival date, cancellation penalties and additional fees may apply. Due to our remote resort destination we strongly recommend you purchase travel insurance. Please note that a monetary fee will be assessed in the event of a cancelation within 30 days prior to arrival in the amount of $2,000."
This is from their very friendly welcome email.
This is from their very friendly welcome email.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:16 pm
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,446
Yes. A good property - one that actually cares about providing quality service - will cut their guests slack here. Especially when the guest has a substantial relationship with the chain, as reflected by top tier elite status.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:19 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,394
Mar 13, 2019, 4:23 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 31
boolean64, I hear what you are saying re the T&C if I had made that booking later in time (e.g., after August 2018). Like many, I have other bookings that are not under the SPG T&C (they were made after August 2018) so I will need to be careful with these. I think a work around is simply to check-in to the hotel remotely via the Marriott app for properties that allow such checking in. Maybe the T&C state that you have to be physically present but I doubt anyone would notice.
My point above was simply to rebut the statements made in support of the "no show" fee. Statements were made that it was fair b/c the hotel could not easily resell the rooms on short notice. I simply countered to say that it is inherently not fair. The hotel has no loss from me not showing up. Even the loss of potential ancilary charges is specious b/c this would be offset by lack of expenditures by the hotel on my rooms (e.g., no housekeeping, electricity, amenities, etc.)
I would add that there is an additional concern: when booking 5 nights on points the 5th night is of course free. If the hotel charges you a no-show fee in cash and "refunds" your points you probably would not get any points back b/c 4 nights would be the same as 5 nights. Regardless of what the T&C indicate, there is something not right about this. For whatever reason, I did get a few points back (20K per room) but it might as well been nothing when compared to the cash charge.
Also, regardless of the T&C, maybe we could all agree that this is a very lousy thing to do (charge "no show" fee on prepaid reservation). To me, this is a very serious and surreptitious points devaluation.
My point above was simply to rebut the statements made in support of the "no show" fee. Statements were made that it was fair b/c the hotel could not easily resell the rooms on short notice. I simply countered to say that it is inherently not fair. The hotel has no loss from me not showing up. Even the loss of potential ancilary charges is specious b/c this would be offset by lack of expenditures by the hotel on my rooms (e.g., no housekeeping, electricity, amenities, etc.)
I would add that there is an additional concern: when booking 5 nights on points the 5th night is of course free. If the hotel charges you a no-show fee in cash and "refunds" your points you probably would not get any points back b/c 4 nights would be the same as 5 nights. Regardless of what the T&C indicate, there is something not right about this. For whatever reason, I did get a few points back (20K per room) but it might as well been nothing when compared to the cash charge.
Also, regardless of the T&C, maybe we could all agree that this is a very lousy thing to do (charge "no show" fee on prepaid reservation). To me, this is a very serious and surreptitious points devaluation.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:27 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Bounding Around The Good 'Ole USA In My Chevrolet
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 381
hotelboy and joakgarp, with respect, I think you are both missing the point.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:34 pm
#27
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Shanghai
Programs: BAEC (Gold), PC (Plat), HH (Gold), MR (Gold)
Posts: 2,729
Ts&Cs or not, it’s ridiculous. The room had already been paid for once, so why the need to pay a second time? I’d give the hotel 5 days to refund and then if they haven’t, initiate a chargeback. Let’s see what the credit card company thinks of this.
Mar 13, 2019, 4:35 pm
#28
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 139
The St. Regis is just following its contract you agreed to when you accepted the terms and conditions. You had ample opportunity to cancel before hand if you did not like the terms they were offering. What would have happened if somehow you did get to Aspen and they had sold your room?
Mar 13, 2019, 4:48 pm
#29
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 902
hotelboy and joakgarp, with respect, I think you are both missing the point.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
The rooms were already paid in full in points. The hotel is not out anything by me not showing up until the second day of my 5 night stay. Likewise, sean1397's rooms were fully paid for in advance with points. Please help me understand how the hotel is losing money when we don't show up on the first night of a reservation that is fully paid. The hotel need not do anything w.r.t. reselling the room so it is irrelevant (at least how I see things) as to whether reselling is an option. Further, at least in my specific situation, I let the hotel know that I would not arrive until the afternoon the next day. Optionally, the hotel could have sold my rooms for the 1st night and made some extra dough if there was demand (i.e., they would receive whatever value they get from my points booking plus optionally cash if the room could be resold).
sean1397, I feel your pain. My family prefers Airbnb's and similar rentals. This will only further push me in that direction.
There is a mistake in that reasoning. The hotel is not already paid in full in points. Marriott subtracted the points from the account, but the hotel has not been paid and will only be paid by Marriott if the guest checks-in and stays for the whole duration of the booking. In the case of a no-show or a late cancellation Marriott pays the hotel zilch and the points are returned to the account. The hotel is compensated for the loss of award revenueb by charging the no-show or late cancellation fee. Given how little Marriott pays for an award stay, hotels always prefer the fee. In this instance however the hotel has had an extremely poor behavior. As OP said he would arrive later, hotel should just have checked OP in and charge Marriott for the award. Of course, hotel may always claim they had no idea if OP’s promise of late arrival was for real and they had to return the rooms to inventory in order to try a last minute booking. In any event an elite member should merit a little more trust on the part of the property.
Mar 13, 2019, 5:02 pm
#30
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Gold, GHA Tit, BA Gold, Turkish Elite
Posts: 8,717
Both outrageous but also sadly in line with Marriott’s aggressive T&C’s. Our holidays on points are all subject to massive multi-thousand dollar unexpected expenses if our flights are delayed. It is the kind of thing that consumer advocates often take up.
I personally respect the St Regis brand and so think it’s unfortunate they are taking this line with the OP. I would agree that if in this situation I would fight what is clearly an unjust and hostile fee. In many regimes this would make it illegal, but I’m guessing not in the US.
I personally respect the St Regis brand and so think it’s unfortunate they are taking this line with the OP. I would agree that if in this situation I would fight what is clearly an unjust and hostile fee. In many regimes this would make it illegal, but I’m guessing not in the US.