May 11, 2019, 9:00 am
Last edit by: SanDiego1K
Description of resolution can be found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31088204-post759.html
Outrageous No-Show Fee Incurred At St. Regis Aspen
Mar 19, 2019, 11:32 pm
#346
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
Mar 19, 2019, 11:40 pm
#347
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,033
Oops my bad. I was under the impression that he wasn't given the option to cancel, but assuming someone from the property or Marriott called him to advise of the supplement, then I can almost sympathise with them on this specific point. If they want destroy broad consumer confidence by permitting stuborn properties to undermine their marketing efforts, that's their own business decision.
Mar 19, 2019, 11:46 pm
#348
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
Oops my bad. I was under the impression that he wasn't given the option to cancel, but assuming someone from the property or Marriott called him to advise of the supplement, then I can almost sympathise with them on this specific point. If they want destroy broad consumer confidence by permitting stuborn properties to undermine their marketing efforts, that's their own business decision.
not sure about OP.
Mar 20, 2019, 12:16 am
#349
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
Even granting the argument that OP should have been aware that a "cancellation" of a points reservation within 60 days of arrival would result in massive cash charges, where in the follow-up e-mail (what you call a "contract supplement") are the terms with respect delayed arrivals being treated as a "no-show" / "cancellation" stated? Isn't that the situation here? OP was delayed arriving at the hotel by a day because of an unforeseen flight delay; despite calling the hotel and informing the hotel of such delay, OP was charged as if OP was a "no-show." I have not seen written terms anywhere that spell out this practice and that would suggest what the hotel did in this situation was a mutually agreed upon contract.
Mar 20, 2019, 12:26 am
#350
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
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Posts: 18,926
Interesting euphemism.
So merely by sending a "supplement" one party can unilaterally force the other party to accept the amended terms if they don't renegotiate or cancel the contract? #TIL
Even if the original contract says "we reserve the right to amend this at any time" I am skeptical that is literally true without any qualification. I doubt for example the property could send a "supplement" saying "by the way we decided to double your room rate" and have that hold up in court.
Even if the original contract says "we reserve the right to amend this at any time" I am skeptical that is literally true without any qualification. I doubt for example the property could send a "supplement" saying "by the way we decided to double your room rate" and have that hold up in court.
Mar 20, 2019, 12:36 am
#351
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
What a lot of people want does not make business sense.
point redemption is not of high-value for this property. The property gets little from Corporate Marriott for point redemption. And the customer does not spend enough on extra.
As the property owner, you certainly don't welcome this kind of customer back. Why would you, as an owner, not charge as much as possible as stipulated in the contract?
If you as an owner, choose to act against your own interest, tell me your business. I would like do a lot of business with you.
point redemption is not of high-value for this property. The property gets little from Corporate Marriott for point redemption. And the customer does not spend enough on extra.
As the property owner, you certainly don't welcome this kind of customer back. Why would you, as an owner, not charge as much as possible as stipulated in the contract?
If you as an owner, choose to act against your own interest, tell me your business. I would like do a lot of business with you.
Contract supplements/addendums still have to be approved by both parties, otherwise no contract would ever be enforceable. No idea why you are so insistent on defending the property's despicable practices here in the first place, but you should certainly not play lawyer.
Mar 20, 2019, 1:02 am
#352
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: perth
Programs: SPG(LTG), QANTAS gold, Korean, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,500
What a lot of people want does not make business sense.
point redemption is not of high-value for this property. The property gets little from Corporate Marriott for point redemption. And the customer does not spend enough on extra.
As the property owner, you certainly don't welcome this kind of customer back. Why would you, as an owner, not charge as much as possible as stipulated in the contract?
If you as an owner, choose to act against your own interest, tell me your business. I would like do a lot of business with you.
point redemption is not of high-value for this property. The property gets little from Corporate Marriott for point redemption. And the customer does not spend enough on extra.
As the property owner, you certainly don't welcome this kind of customer back. Why would you, as an owner, not charge as much as possible as stipulated in the contract?
If you as an owner, choose to act against your own interest, tell me your business. I would like do a lot of business with you.
Mar 20, 2019, 1:06 am
#353
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
What both of you have not addressed is the OP in this case made the booking with points pre merger. It is an SPG contract not a Marriott contract so all these discussions should address the fact that post merger you cannot unilaterally change the terms no matter how many years Marriott has operated differently from SPG.
Regardless, would someone please point me to Marriott's policy that arriving late is considered a no-show and, when on a points reservation, incurs a 1-night cash charge (or some other cash charge) with a corresponding refund of points? Thanks.
The following is the closest thing I could find, which does not anywhere say that arriving a day late is considered a no-show:
3.2.c. The standard guarantee and cancellation policies of a Participating Property will apply to Award Redemption Stay reservations including, without limitation, all minimum length of stay requirements, credit card guarantee requirements and charges for late cancellation, no-shows, and early check-out.
i. A Point refund may be issued for a stay that is less than the number of days on the Redemption Award, but the Member must inform the Participating Property’s front desk in advance of the early check-out time in order for the Point refund to be issued to the Member’s Account.
ii. If a Member fails to cancel a guaranteed Award Redemption Stay reservation within the permitted cancellation period, the Participating Property will charge the applicable cancellation fee to the credit card provided by the Member at the time the reservation was made and the Points that were redeemed will be re-deposited into the Member’s Account.
i. A Point refund may be issued for a stay that is less than the number of days on the Redemption Award, but the Member must inform the Participating Property’s front desk in advance of the early check-out time in order for the Point refund to be issued to the Member’s Account.
ii. If a Member fails to cancel a guaranteed Award Redemption Stay reservation within the permitted cancellation period, the Participating Property will charge the applicable cancellation fee to the credit card provided by the Member at the time the reservation was made and the Points that were redeemed will be re-deposited into the Member’s Account.
Last edited by flyingeph12; Mar 20, 2019 at 1:11 am Reason: Added Quote from Marriott's T&Cs
Mar 20, 2019, 2:43 am
#354
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
This is not a good argument, as loyalty programs work both ways. Being part of a loyalty program drives business to the property just by being part of the brand name. In return, the property is obligated to uphold the brand standards. The property can't just decide to be part of the loyalty program only when it is convenient and only to its financial benefit. That's not how it works..
Mar 20, 2019, 2:49 am
#355
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
What both of you have not addressed is the OP in this case made the booking with points pre merger. It is an SPG contract not a Marriott contract so all these discussions should address the fact that post merger you cannot unilaterally change the terms no matter how many years Marriott has operated differently from SPG.
I have not seen a contract not subject to changes.
Mar 20, 2019, 3:52 am
#356
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
Mar 20, 2019, 4:53 am
#357
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: perth
Programs: SPG(LTG), QANTAS gold, Korean, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,500
Seriously? Changes can only be made by agreement of both parties otherwise the change cannot be enforced. A takeover by Marriott does not change reservation terms for agreements made by SPG.
Mar 20, 2019, 5:11 am
#358
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
You have the leverage, you can decide which part of the loyalty program you are in.
e.g. Some properties provide breakfast as loyalty benefit, some don't.
e.g. Some properties allow point redemption, some don't.
Mar 20, 2019, 5:13 am
#359
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
But what if Marriott writes to communicate the change in contract term? Ignore at your own peril.
If Marriott does not communicate changes, that's Marriott's problem.
If you choose to ignore the communication, you know what is going to happen.