May 11, 2019, 9:00 am
Last edit by: SanDiego1K
Description of resolution can be found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31088204-post759.html
Outrageous No-Show Fee Incurred At St. Regis Aspen
Mar 15, 2019, 10:25 am
#167
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EUG
Programs: AS MVP, AA MM, HH Diamond, MR Gold
Posts: 8,216
But let's say the hotel relents because of the bad press...this time. How does that help others in the same situation going forward? There needs to be a reasonable policy change.
And I find it interesting the Lurkers have been eerily absent from this thread.
And I find it interesting the Lurkers have been eerily absent from this thread.
Mar 15, 2019, 12:04 pm
#168
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 31
OP here - I am very thankful to Lucky at One Mile At a Time and to Gary at View From the Wing for picking up my story. Links below.
(https://onemileatatime.com/st-regis-...lation-policy/)
(https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...ive-ever-seen/)
The light needs to shine brightly whenever shady and shameful business practices are encountered so that either (a) the business can learn from its mistakes and do the right thing in the future (looking at you St. Regis Aspen and Marriott) or (b) people can avoid the business entirely, or at least go in with their eyes wide open (caveat emptor).
I am humbled to see so many others reaching out via social media toward the St. Regis Aspen and Marriott to let them know just how wrong this is.
I am confident that I will ultimately get my money back. What I really want to see is an apology from the hotel itself and a systemwide Marriott change with respect to this cash penalty stuff on points bookings. Also, one aspect that I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the issue of booking 5 nights on points (pay 4 nights of points, get 5th night free), having some frivolous no-show applied to your first night (like it was to me) and then be refunded your points for the first night. The points refund would be zero b/c you still need to pay for 4 nights with points. My case is a little weird in this regard b/c I did receive 20,000 points back per room as previously mentioned (though no one in their right mind would value 20K points from Marriott as being worth $1,113).
(https://onemileatatime.com/st-regis-...lation-policy/)
(https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...ive-ever-seen/)
The light needs to shine brightly whenever shady and shameful business practices are encountered so that either (a) the business can learn from its mistakes and do the right thing in the future (looking at you St. Regis Aspen and Marriott) or (b) people can avoid the business entirely, or at least go in with their eyes wide open (caveat emptor).
I am humbled to see so many others reaching out via social media toward the St. Regis Aspen and Marriott to let them know just how wrong this is.
I am confident that I will ultimately get my money back. What I really want to see is an apology from the hotel itself and a systemwide Marriott change with respect to this cash penalty stuff on points bookings. Also, one aspect that I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the issue of booking 5 nights on points (pay 4 nights of points, get 5th night free), having some frivolous no-show applied to your first night (like it was to me) and then be refunded your points for the first night. The points refund would be zero b/c you still need to pay for 4 nights with points. My case is a little weird in this regard b/c I did receive 20,000 points back per room as previously mentioned (though no one in their right mind would value 20K points from Marriott as being worth $1,113).
Mar 15, 2019, 12:31 pm
#169
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,411
It's Spreading
I have a points reservation for next February at the St. Regis Deer Valley and just received this email. Note that this condition was not disclosed when the room was booked. Of course, I cannot say how this property would invoke this provision under the OP's circumstances.
Thank you for choosing the St. Regis Deer Valley for your upcoming stay!
We are writing to confirm your reservation on points for arrival on February XXX, 2020. Please note in case you need to cancel you do have a 60 day cancellation policy to cancel without penalty. Should you need to cancel after the deadline, there would be a penalty of Full amount room and tax $800 per night + tax(13.42%) which will be charged on the credit card on file and the points will be returned to your account.
Trip insurance is highly recommended.
We look forward to your stay!
Thank you
Kind regards,
St. Regis Deer Valley
We are writing to confirm your reservation on points for arrival on February XXX, 2020. Please note in case you need to cancel you do have a 60 day cancellation policy to cancel without penalty. Should you need to cancel after the deadline, there would be a penalty of Full amount room and tax $800 per night + tax(13.42%) which will be charged on the credit card on file and the points will be returned to your account.
Trip insurance is highly recommended.
We look forward to your stay!
Thank you
Kind regards,
St. Regis Deer Valley
Mar 15, 2019, 12:52 pm
#170
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
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Posts: 52,546
I don't even see how this is legal. For one, it doesn't seem like it would stand up in court that you pay X for a product/service but then have to pay 5X if you don't use it. Nobody would at all question the hotel's right to just keep your payment when you no-show.
And second, it sounds like these notices are showing up in emails *after* the hotel has accepted and confirmed the reservation.
Very weird that a St. Regis would recommend travel insurance. This can be good or terrible advice depending on the jurisdiction in which the traveler lives and what product they buy.
Marriott, if it had any shred of ethics left to it at all, would put an immeidate stop to this practice.
And second, it sounds like these notices are showing up in emails *after* the hotel has accepted and confirmed the reservation.
Very weird that a St. Regis would recommend travel insurance. This can be good or terrible advice depending on the jurisdiction in which the traveler lives and what product they buy.
Marriott, if it had any shred of ethics left to it at all, would put an immeidate stop to this practice.
Mar 15, 2019, 2:04 pm
#173
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
I don't disagree with you. I was simply responding to the question about all those people who book rooms for the night before because they'll be arriving in the early morning. With respect to those cases, it's really only a problem when booking with points, so the issue likely comes up much less frequently than the post to which I was responding implied. Of course, as you clarify, it's also really only a problem if the hotel decides to actually enforce what apparently is Marriott's policy of refunding points and charging the nightly cash rate.
Mar 15, 2019, 2:27 pm
#174
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
OP here -
I am confident that I will ultimately get my money back. What I really want to see is an apology from the hotel itself and a systemwide Marriott change with respect to this cash penalty stuff on points bookings. Also, one aspect that I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the issue of booking 5 nights on points (pay 4 nights of points, get 5th night free), having some frivolous no-show applied to your first night (like it was to me) and then be refunded your points for the first night. The points refund would be zero b/c you still need to pay for 4 nights with points. My case is a little weird in this regard b/c I did receive 20,000 points back per room as previously mentioned (though no one in their right mind would value 20K points from Marriott as being worth $1,113).
I am confident that I will ultimately get my money back. What I really want to see is an apology from the hotel itself and a systemwide Marriott change with respect to this cash penalty stuff on points bookings. Also, one aspect that I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the issue of booking 5 nights on points (pay 4 nights of points, get 5th night free), having some frivolous no-show applied to your first night (like it was to me) and then be refunded your points for the first night. The points refund would be zero b/c you still need to pay for 4 nights with points. My case is a little weird in this regard b/c I did receive 20,000 points back per room as previously mentioned (though no one in their right mind would value 20K points from Marriott as being worth $1,113).
But the real problem is if you called and said you would be a late check in and thus did show up before noon the following day. Noon is the time the "next day starts". If you did, then the hotel did make a mistake and does owe you.
While some seem to support your wrong belief, all on the Marriot owner's blog do not. Hopefully your future with Marriott will be better.
Last edited by Gadot; Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 pm
Mar 15, 2019, 2:46 pm
#175
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
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Posts: 52,546
You should not receive your money back for their charging you for a no-show. The policy clearly states that you will be charged and the points refunded. In addition when you made the reservation, I believe they noted they were charging you. Sorry Marriott and envoy is different from SPG. But rather than smear them for your error in not reading the fine print (caveat emptor)!! 99% of the complaints on envoy come from SPG members who don't like the change. Live with it or go elsewhere. I am sure Hilton will like your business - at least until you start smearing them.
But the real problem is if you called and said you would be a late check in and thus did show up before noon the following day. Noon is the time the "next day starts". If you did, then the hotel did make a mistake and does owe you.
While some seem to support your wrong belief, all on the Marriot owner's blog do not. Hopefully your future with Marriott will be better.
But the real problem is if you called and said you would be a late check in and thus did show up before noon the following day. Noon is the time the "next day starts". If you did, then the hotel did make a mistake and does owe you.
While some seem to support your wrong belief, all on the Marriot owner's blog do not. Hopefully your future with Marriott will be better.
(2) If the Marriott owners blog genuinely believes this is an ethical thing to do, then that blog is a toxic cesspool that really makes me want to avoid Marriott altogether in the future. I can't imagine anyone in any long-term client relationship thinking this is a just way to treat a client or business partner, even if it is technically legal.
(3) It's looking pretty clearly in this thread that the hotels that are engaging in this slimy practice are doing it with after-the-fact emails to the customers. In addition to being completely unethical (which now really doesn't surprise me), I'm wondering if this isn't a broader legal issue.
(4) "Live with it or go elsewhere"? Hundreds of thousands are. MAR stock is slumping. Hilton is blowing up and adding huge numbers to their loyalty program. They're not only publishing great numbers but increased rates of deep engagement with the program, suggesting it's seasoned frequent travelers who are converting. Where do you think those people are all coming from?
Mar 15, 2019, 2:47 pm
#176
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Programs: DL Platinum, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 135
Mar 15, 2019, 2:57 pm
#177
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
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Posts: 52,546
I am also open to the possibility that the guy typing in all bold and misspelling Marriott is not actually a Marriott owner. At this point, I'd believe either possibility.
Mar 15, 2019, 3:01 pm
#178
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern California
Programs: I want to be free! Free!
Posts: 3,453
But rather than smear them for your error in not reading the fine print (caveat emptor)!! 99% of the complaints on envoy come from SPG members who don't like the change. Live with it or go elsewhere. I am sure Hilton will like your business - at least until you start smearing them..
Also, caveat emptor has nothing to do with fine print. Maybe learn the facts of the situation and stick to words you are able to comprehend before you start spouting off about "smearing".
Mar 15, 2019, 3:09 pm
#179
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cockeysville, MD
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Posts: 9,467
Mar 15, 2019, 3:30 pm
#180
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 110
Really sorry to read OP’s post, albeit one of the main reasons I continuously avoid anything “Marriott” branded after this merger. It truly is a sad state of affairs with this conglomerate right now.
I have been to this property on a few different occasions and can tell you this: most of the employees at this StR (at least while I have been in town) are young traveling/expats who want to get a few months in at a destination location inside the US, and may not necessarily be 100% up to par on policy and procedure. After all the reaffirmation of T&C’s, and the time OP did their check-in, it sounds like whomever OP spoke with originally at the front desk might have made the update in the computer which resulted in this charge. I would definitely battle this one out to the end and see where it takes you.
I have seen rates for standard rooms at this StR fetch as high as $1800 a night, and I was also a victim of circumstance (price gouging) a few years ago when a rogue storm hit. It is definitely par for the course in such a prestigious mountain town.
IMHO I would tell you this: Avoid the StR in Aspen at all costs. Their most recent remodel of the lobby bar / sitting area was a minor saving grace for this property, however they score sub-par in almost every other category (service, food/menu, etc) with the exception of the rooms themselves. Give your business to the Little Nell, Hotel Jerome, or The Gant is even an excellent option when traveling with a full pack (family or otherwise). Aspen is a small enough town that regardless where you are staying most hotels/resorts are equipped with complimentary shuttle service to bring you to whichever mountain you prefer.
Like others have said, especially in season, getting in or out of ASE by plane can be very hit or miss due to mountain weather conditions and the fact their runway is so short. The past few times it has been SOP for me to disembark at DEN then use Colorado Mountain Express to chauffeur me to Aspen. They will fetch you from a luxury SUV at your arrival terminal and take you the entire way if you so desire. Yes - it adds about 4 hours worth of travel time, but I can in most circumstances expect to arrive in city center on time barring any real extreme weather conditions.
Hope everything works out for you and it is a real shame to see Marriott butchering its elite members and programs as such.
I have been to this property on a few different occasions and can tell you this: most of the employees at this StR (at least while I have been in town) are young traveling/expats who want to get a few months in at a destination location inside the US, and may not necessarily be 100% up to par on policy and procedure. After all the reaffirmation of T&C’s, and the time OP did their check-in, it sounds like whomever OP spoke with originally at the front desk might have made the update in the computer which resulted in this charge. I would definitely battle this one out to the end and see where it takes you.
I have seen rates for standard rooms at this StR fetch as high as $1800 a night, and I was also a victim of circumstance (price gouging) a few years ago when a rogue storm hit. It is definitely par for the course in such a prestigious mountain town.
IMHO I would tell you this: Avoid the StR in Aspen at all costs. Their most recent remodel of the lobby bar / sitting area was a minor saving grace for this property, however they score sub-par in almost every other category (service, food/menu, etc) with the exception of the rooms themselves. Give your business to the Little Nell, Hotel Jerome, or The Gant is even an excellent option when traveling with a full pack (family or otherwise). Aspen is a small enough town that regardless where you are staying most hotels/resorts are equipped with complimentary shuttle service to bring you to whichever mountain you prefer.
Like others have said, especially in season, getting in or out of ASE by plane can be very hit or miss due to mountain weather conditions and the fact their runway is so short. The past few times it has been SOP for me to disembark at DEN then use Colorado Mountain Express to chauffeur me to Aspen. They will fetch you from a luxury SUV at your arrival terminal and take you the entire way if you so desire. Yes - it adds about 4 hours worth of travel time, but I can in most circumstances expect to arrive in city center on time barring any real extreme weather conditions.
Hope everything works out for you and it is a real shame to see Marriott butchering its elite members and programs as such.
