Will existing "Points Advance" reservations raise in price on March 5th???
Feb 12, 2019, 7:40 am
#106
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
I have been trying to wait in Southwest to announce their rates, but their progress was slowed by the government situation. Maybe it will happen before the end of the month.
Feb 12, 2019, 7:46 am
#107
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
If this is implemented I will cancel all my Marriott/SPG/Bonvoy cards. I will use all of my stash of points and move my business to Hilton and Hyatt. This is the last straw. We are starting to see the negative effects of mergers. Less competition and less incentive to reward loyal customers.
Also, Marriott would be in breach of their policy that award stays should have the same benefits as paid stays. If I book a paid stay, and the hotel raises its prices, they won't get to raise my price too....I'm sure many people like me made many speculative reservations anticipating the increase in awards. If Marriott didn't want that to happen, they should not have implemented points advance. They will have a class action if they don't honor the original rates.
Also, Marriott would be in breach of their policy that award stays should have the same benefits as paid stays. If I book a paid stay, and the hotel raises its prices, they won't get to raise my price too....I'm sure many people like me made many speculative reservations anticipating the increase in awards. If Marriott didn't want that to happen, they should not have implemented points advance. They will have a class action if they don't honor the original rates.
Min stark contrast, the original post is encouraging you to book now to guarantee the current rates. Hopefully the wording is just sort of odd and there will be no problem. I intend to book a room in Hawaii by the end of the month, but it will not be on a points advance.
Feb 12, 2019, 7:59 am
#108
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
Two scenarios:
1) Book a 5 night stay for 240k points using the Marriott points advance feature. The agreement at time of booking is that the points have to be in your account 14 days before booking or they are free to cancel your reservation. Reservation is confirmed and 240k redemption cost is listed in the reservation.
2) Book a flexible 5 night stay at a Cat 7 hotel for $4000, the terms of the reservation are that you will pay at the time of stay. Reservation is confirmed and $4000 is due at time of stay.
There has never been anytime where it has been allowed for a hotel to change the cost of a reservation after it had been made regardless of it being prepaid, flexible, or an award. Points advance allows you to confirm a reservation no different than a flexible reservation with cash.
If you had a reservation in scenario 2, a hotel would not tell you “sorry, we changed our rates so you now owe use $5000”. An award reservation, once confirmed, should be treated no differently. If Marriott was not going to honor the existing award rates, they should have been clear about it months ago by including a message saying that rates under points advance reservations are not guaranteed.
I currently have 2 points advance bookings that are not speculative. Flights and other travel arrangements are already confirmed. Marriott has not changed their wording on the confirmations for either nor have the emailed me suggesting I need to purchase the certs with points in order to lock in the rates.
There is no information regarding this change anywhere other than what TPG has pointed out. Is Marriott really going to do this and not directly tell customers who currently hold points advance reservations that this change in their terms is occurring? The terms I agreed to was that I would have until 14 days before the stay to get the points and any change in that is violation of the T&C of points advance reservations and breaking an agreement with a customer. If points are going to be treated as a taxable value, which has recently been made clear that they are, then their redemptions should not be treated differently than a confirmed reservation with cash.
1) Book a 5 night stay for 240k points using the Marriott points advance feature. The agreement at time of booking is that the points have to be in your account 14 days before booking or they are free to cancel your reservation. Reservation is confirmed and 240k redemption cost is listed in the reservation.
2) Book a flexible 5 night stay at a Cat 7 hotel for $4000, the terms of the reservation are that you will pay at the time of stay. Reservation is confirmed and $4000 is due at time of stay.
There has never been anytime where it has been allowed for a hotel to change the cost of a reservation after it had been made regardless of it being prepaid, flexible, or an award. Points advance allows you to confirm a reservation no different than a flexible reservation with cash.
If you had a reservation in scenario 2, a hotel would not tell you “sorry, we changed our rates so you now owe use $5000”. An award reservation, once confirmed, should be treated no differently. If Marriott was not going to honor the existing award rates, they should have been clear about it months ago by including a message saying that rates under points advance reservations are not guaranteed.
I currently have 2 points advance bookings that are not speculative. Flights and other travel arrangements are already confirmed. Marriott has not changed their wording on the confirmations for either nor have the emailed me suggesting I need to purchase the certs with points in order to lock in the rates.
There is no information regarding this change anywhere other than what TPG has pointed out. Is Marriott really going to do this and not directly tell customers who currently hold points advance reservations that this change in their terms is occurring? The terms I agreed to was that I would have until 14 days before the stay to get the points and any change in that is violation of the T&C of points advance reservations and breaking an agreement with a customer. If points are going to be treated as a taxable value, which has recently been made clear that they are, then their redemptions should not be treated differently than a confirmed reservation with cash.
Now, on the other hand, this may not even be a big deal. The wording could be as such that it is ambiguous. I personally spent much too much time reading through T&Cs around the time of the merger. I am done with that racket, but I hope like everyone else that they do the right thing.
I want to use my points to hit up Hawaii. I plan to book before the 5th, but will go back and check again after to see if I am booking during peak or off peak.
Feb 12, 2019, 8:28 am
#109
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
It is obviously Marriott’s problem now, but the data breach happened under the SPG system. In addition, it started well prior to the buyout. I imagine Marriott is doing quite a bit to deal with this mess. They are the ones having to fund the problem now.
Feb 12, 2019, 8:35 am
#110
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
I'm not one to support corporations, in fact, I almost never do. I hammer them relentlessly.
But, in this case, Marriott is completely justified to increase the award rates on points advance reservations. That is a tool that Marriott doesn't have to offer, I don't know any other programs that offer the same. You need the points/miles at the time to make the booking.
If Marriott is raising point rates, why should they allow people to game the system by speculatively making a bunch of Cat 7 bookings (when they don't even have the points) during the days leading up to the point raise? The entitlement is getting a bit out of control here.
But, in this case, Marriott is completely justified to increase the award rates on points advance reservations. That is a tool that Marriott doesn't have to offer, I don't know any other programs that offer the same. You need the points/miles at the time to make the booking.
If Marriott is raising point rates, why should they allow people to game the system by speculatively making a bunch of Cat 7 bookings (when they don't even have the points) during the days leading up to the point raise? The entitlement is getting a bit out of control here.
The entitlement here is definitely off the charts, but I understand why. Marriott use to make a big deal of their Elite members. Becoming a Marriott Elite meant a lot of perks. Now, they are starting to pull back the benefits a bit. The hotels are seemingly applying policy as written more so now. Whatever the reason, most bonus programs like this do have a clause that gives them the right to change the program at anytime with or without warning. Typically, they will not do that because it is just not good customer relations.
my suggestion to those on this thread, just voice your concerns to Marriott directly. If enough customers are disgruntled, they will undoubtedly make some concessions. Send an email, snail mail, or even call. That is the best option you can take.
Feb 12, 2019, 9:56 am
#111
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CMH
Programs: w/+1: AS MVPG; IHG/Marriott Plat; Hilton/BW Diamond; Hertz Prez; SG Silver
Posts: 1,188
The problem is that a points advance is not a guaranteed rate. They don’t guarantee the rate until you alert them that you have acquired the necessary number of points.
Min stark contrast, the original post is encouraging you to book now to guarantee the current rates. Hopefully the wording is just sort of odd and there will be no problem. I intend to book a room in Hawaii by the end of the month, but it will not be on a points advance.
Feb 12, 2019, 10:38 am
#112
Join Date: Jun 2006
Programs: UA Premier 1K, Star Alliance Gold, Titanium Elite Marriott, Celebrity Elite, IHG, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 343
American express 35 k certificate
I was hoping to use my SPG Amex 35k certificate on a one-night hotel stay, but I won't be getting that certificate until after March 5. The hotel I booked is on the list and going up in category, meaning the 35k rate will increase to 50k. Has anyone have experience with swapping out certificates with customer service?? I could in theory pay in full using points now, and then hopefully change the reservation to the free night certificate. Has anyone done something like that before?
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Your thoughts are appreciated!
It is a stand alone certificate that can't be added to your points. I am planning a trip in April and one in May. I would like to use it on the April trip.
Feb 12, 2019, 11:51 am
#113
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 64
T&Cs are long and bullish. If you have not thoroughly read through every detail, and even possibly hired a qualified attorney to translate every detail, there may be some wording in there somewhere.
Now, on the other hand, this may not even be a big deal. The wording could be as such that it is ambiguous. I personally spent much too much time reading through T&Cs around the time of the merger. I am done with that racket, but I hope like everyone else that they do the right thing.
I want to use my points to hit up Hawaii. I plan to book before the 5th, but will go back and check again after to see if I am booking during peak or off peak.
Feb 12, 2019, 12:09 pm
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,517
I received an email from AE last month telling me the Certificate will be arriving soon. "Happy Card anniversary! We wanted to remind you that you will receive one annual Free Night Award from SPG® each year of Card Membership within 8-12 weeks after your Card Account anniversary date."
It is a stand alone certificate that can't be added to your points. I am planning a trip in April and one in May. I would like to use it on the April trip.
It is a stand alone certificate that can't be added to your points. I am planning a trip in April and one in May. I would like to use it on the April trip.
Feb 12, 2019, 12:14 pm
#115
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: Marco polo club
Posts: 5
points contract
Did anyone else see this verbage regarding points advance reservations???
“Points Advance — Members can book stays when they do not have enough points if they earn or purchase the needed points at least 14 days prior to check-in. Members who wish to book a points advance redemption under the current Marriott Rewards and SPG award chart are encouraged to order redemption certificates before March 5 to lock in the rate. On March 5, redemption bookings are subject to the new unified program award chart.”
Does this mean that existing points advance reservations (ones booked but not yet with certs ordered) will increase in price on March 5th? If so, that's a terrible thing to do to customers on zero notice! I'm LIVID.
If this really is true, it's the last straw for me, and my husband and I will be taking our business to Hyatt and Hilton. We have reservations for a big anniversary trip--one we've been saving points up for years (loads of business travel)--and we won't have the points by March 5th, but we would have points well before the 14 days in advance (the original terms under which we made the reservation).
“Points Advance — Members can book stays when they do not have enough points if they earn or purchase the needed points at least 14 days prior to check-in. Members who wish to book a points advance redemption under the current Marriott Rewards and SPG award chart are encouraged to order redemption certificates before March 5 to lock in the rate. On March 5, redemption bookings are subject to the new unified program award chart.”
Does this mean that existing points advance reservations (ones booked but not yet with certs ordered) will increase in price on March 5th? If so, that's a terrible thing to do to customers on zero notice! I'm LIVID.
If this really is true, it's the last straw for me, and my husband and I will be taking our business to Hyatt and Hilton. We have reservations for a big anniversary trip--one we've been saving points up for years (loads of business travel)--and we won't have the points by March 5th, but we would have points well before the 14 days in advance (the original terms under which we made the reservation).
Feb 17, 2019, 4:47 pm
#118
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 153
The one exception to this rule is if you make any significant changes (not entirely sure where the line is drawn here but I would imagine date changes certainly cross it) the rate will be revised to the new rate.
Feb 17, 2019, 4:49 pm
#119
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 141
The system will still price it at the higher rate and you’ll have to get an agent to give you a manual adjustment.
This could be an issue for using free night certs though as it is not possible to apply a cert to a higher category hotel than the cert can cover.
This could be an issue for using free night certs though as it is not possible to apply a cert to a higher category hotel than the cert can cover.
Feb 17, 2019, 5:44 pm
#120
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: perth
Programs: SPG(LTG), QANTAS gold, Korean, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,500
Fortunately, Marriott has clarified that they will not be changing the rates in existing reservations. But I did get a legal opinion on it because I had mentioned it in another post but my wife works in event management and deals with contract lawyers daily. She briefly asked one of them about this yesterday at lunch and from a legal standpoint she said that regardless of what is in the T&Cs, if Marriott were to change the rates after confirmation, it's against the law. Because a points advance reservation includes a fee based cancellation policy, it should therefore be treated as a reservation no different than a cash reservation. She said that the T&Cs would allow Marriott to change future points advanced reservations and modify the award program as the please but by law they are required to honor the rates in the existing reservations or if they need to cancel them for some reason they would need to provide reasonable accommodations elsewhere.