Will existing "Points Advance" reservations raise in price on March 5th???
#61
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 590
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,508
At the risk of stating the obvious, there are two different features of the rewards program that are being conflated in this thread.
First is that rewards reservations that are booked and have certs attached will stay at the same points cost, even if the hotel category increases, or if the dates get designated as peak(?). When Marriott advises to book now to lock in rates, this is the feature they are promoting.
Second is Points Advance, which lets you book a stay before you have the points available. This is a nice feature of the program and by no means industry standard. For the vast majority of hotels not changing category, nothing has changed. There may be a one-time effect when peak pricing is rolled out, but going forward, peak/off dates will be known at time of booking.
Where the complaints are coming is from the intersection of the Venn diagram, from the subset of reservations taking advantage of both features. Where the hotel will be increasing categories, AND the member has insufficient points. The policy doesn't seem unreasonable, although the short notice may be.
My point is, those who are saying this policy will gut the Points Advance feature, and Marriott may as well stop offering it, are ignoring the large number of points advance bookings at properties not changing category. For those, the ability to secure the reservation before accumulating the points is a big plus of the program - especially since so many hotels do not offer last-room-availability for reward stays.
First is that rewards reservations that are booked and have certs attached will stay at the same points cost, even if the hotel category increases, or if the dates get designated as peak(?). When Marriott advises to book now to lock in rates, this is the feature they are promoting.
Second is Points Advance, which lets you book a stay before you have the points available. This is a nice feature of the program and by no means industry standard. For the vast majority of hotels not changing category, nothing has changed. There may be a one-time effect when peak pricing is rolled out, but going forward, peak/off dates will be known at time of booking.
Where the complaints are coming is from the intersection of the Venn diagram, from the subset of reservations taking advantage of both features. Where the hotel will be increasing categories, AND the member has insufficient points. The policy doesn't seem unreasonable, although the short notice may be.
My point is, those who are saying this policy will gut the Points Advance feature, and Marriott may as well stop offering it, are ignoring the large number of points advance bookings at properties not changing category. For those, the ability to secure the reservation before accumulating the points is a big plus of the program - especially since so many hotels do not offer last-room-availability for reward stays.
#64
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 64
My wife works in event management and works frequently with contract lawyers so I asked if she could get their take on this. I think Marriott is in a very grey area with this change.
It is very much in Marriott’s right to do as they please with their award program based on the T&Cs. They could remove the program tomorrow and take away everyones points if they wanted. They could take away points as a way to prevent people from booking points advance stays as a way to combat the abuse of the program.
On the other hand, when you make a points advance reservation, Marriott assigns a value to your points essentially treating them as a cash equivalent. They provide you with a confirmation and invoice stating how much you owe them (in points) and when it is due (14 days before the stay) and in return they agree to provide you a room. At this point, your reservation becomes a legally binding agreement to provide a service for the stated price and should no longer be considered part of the award program. If they took away your points to make it impossible to book the room, that would be in their right, but to modify a previously agreed upon contract without agreement from both sides is not legal.
Marriott can put whatever they want in their T&Cs, but they also have to abide by the contract laws which supersede their T&Cs.
It is very much in Marriott’s right to do as they please with their award program based on the T&Cs. They could remove the program tomorrow and take away everyones points if they wanted. They could take away points as a way to prevent people from booking points advance stays as a way to combat the abuse of the program.
On the other hand, when you make a points advance reservation, Marriott assigns a value to your points essentially treating them as a cash equivalent. They provide you with a confirmation and invoice stating how much you owe them (in points) and when it is due (14 days before the stay) and in return they agree to provide you a room. At this point, your reservation becomes a legally binding agreement to provide a service for the stated price and should no longer be considered part of the award program. If they took away your points to make it impossible to book the room, that would be in their right, but to modify a previously agreed upon contract without agreement from both sides is not legal.
Marriott can put whatever they want in their T&Cs, but they also have to abide by the contract laws which supersede their T&Cs.
Last edited by Lobonomnom; Feb 10, 2019 at 10:36 am
#65
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
My wife works in event management and works frequently with contract lawyers so I asked if she could get their take on this. I think Marriott is in a very grey area with this change.
It is very much in Marriott’s right to do as they please with their award program based on the T&Cs. They could remove the program tomorrow and take away everyones points if they wanted. They could take away points as a way to prevent people from booking points advance stays as a way to combat the abuse of the program.
On the other hand, when you make a points advance reservation, Marriott assigns a value to your points essentially treating them as a cash equivalent. They provide you with a confirmation and invoice stating how much you owe them (in points) and when it is due (14 days before the stay) and in return they agree to provide you a room. At this point, your reservation becomes a legally binding agreement to provide a service for the stated price and should no longer be considered part of the award program. If they took away your points to make it impossible to book the room, that would be in their right, but to modify a previously agreed upon contract without agreement from both sides is not legal.
Marriott can put whatever they want in their T&Cs, but they also have to abide by the contract laws which supersede their T&Cs.
It is very much in Marriott’s right to do as they please with their award program based on the T&Cs. They could remove the program tomorrow and take away everyones points if they wanted. They could take away points as a way to prevent people from booking points advance stays as a way to combat the abuse of the program.
On the other hand, when you make a points advance reservation, Marriott assigns a value to your points essentially treating them as a cash equivalent. They provide you with a confirmation and invoice stating how much you owe them (in points) and when it is due (14 days before the stay) and in return they agree to provide you a room. At this point, your reservation becomes a legally binding agreement to provide a service for the stated price and should no longer be considered part of the award program. If they took away your points to make it impossible to book the room, that would be in their right, but to modify a previously agreed upon contract without agreement from both sides is not legal.
Marriott can put whatever they want in their T&Cs, but they also have to abide by the contract laws which supersede their T&Cs.
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E75, Marriott LT Ti, IHG Día Amb, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 15,471
On the other hand, when you make a points advance reservation, Marriott assigns a value to your points essentially treating them as a cash equivalent. They provide you with a confirmation and invoice stating how much you owe them (in points) and when it is due (14 days before the stay) and in return they agree to provide you a room. At this point, your reservation becomes a legally binding agreement to provide a service for the stated price and should no longer be considered part of the award program. If they took away your points to make it impossible to book the room, that would be in their right, but to modify a previously agreed upon contract without agreement from both sides is not legal.
#67
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
Eg:
Marriott Rewards Redemption Reservation
Guest name: XXX
Confirmation Number: XXX
Check-in: Sunday, xxx
Check-out: Friday, xxx
Number of guests: 2
Number of rooms: 1
Room Preferences & Description:
Superior, Guest room, 1 King
This hotel has a smoke-free policy
Summary of Charges:
1room(s) for 5night(s)
Sunday, xxx, 2019 -
Monday, xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Tuesday, xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Wednesday,xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Thursday,xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Destination Amenity Fee-250.00
Estimated government taxes and fees - 54.38
Total for stay in hotel's currency - 304.38 USD+240,000points
On-site parking, fee: 88.79 USD daily,Valet parking, fee: 88.79 USD daily
Reward Rules:
Cancelling Your Reservation
You may cancel your reservation for no charge until xxx, 2019 (3 day[s] before arrival). Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.
Modifying Your Reservation
Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change.
Guest name: XXX
Confirmation Number: XXX
Check-in: Sunday, xxx
Check-out: Friday, xxx
Number of guests: 2
Number of rooms: 1
Room Preferences & Description:
Superior, Guest room, 1 King
This hotel has a smoke-free policy
Summary of Charges:
1room(s) for 5night(s)
Sunday, xxx, 2019 -
Monday, xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Tuesday, xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Wednesday,xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Thursday,xxx, 2019 - 60,000points
Destination Amenity Fee-250.00
Estimated government taxes and fees - 54.38
Total for stay in hotel's currency - 304.38 USD+240,000points
On-site parking, fee: 88.79 USD daily,Valet parking, fee: 88.79 USD daily
Reward Rules:
Cancelling Your Reservation
You may cancel your reservation for no charge until xxx, 2019 (3 day[s] before arrival). Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.
Modifying Your Reservation
Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change.
#68
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Programs: AAdvantage, United MileagePlus, Alaska MileagePlan, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 132
I was hoping to use my SPG Amex 35k certificate on a one-night hotel stay, but I won't be getting that certificate until after March 5. The hotel I booked is on the list and going up in category, meaning the 35k rate will increase to 50k. Has anyone have experience with swapping out certificates with customer service?? I could in theory pay in full using points now, and then hopefully change the reservation to the free night certificate. Has anyone done something like that before?
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Your thoughts are appreciated!
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E75, Marriott LT Ti, IHG Día Amb, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 15,471
I was hoping to use my SPG Amex 35k certificate on a one-night hotel stay, but I won't be getting that certificate until after March 5. The hotel I booked is on the list and going up in category, meaning the 35k rate will increase to 50k. Has anyone have experience with swapping out certificates with customer service?? I could in theory pay in full using points now, and then hopefully change the reservation to the free night certificate. Has anyone done something like that before?
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Your thoughts are appreciated!
#70
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cockeysville, MD
Programs: Marriott Rewards Lifetime Titanium, Amex Plat, Hertz Gold 5*, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 9,463
#71
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 64
It is easy now but I suspect after 3/5, the hotel will show the new 50k rate if you try to modify the booking and apply the certificate. In that situation, it won’t let you apply a cert for a 35k night. I think OP is going to have to find a very friendly CSR who is willing to find a work around if they want to apply the cert after 3/5
#72
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,650
Did anyone else see this verbage regarding points advance reservations???
“Points Advance — Members can book stays when they do not have enough points if they earn or purchase the needed points at least 14 days prior to check-in. Members who wish to book a points advance redemption under the current Marriott Rewards and SPG award chart are encouraged to order redemption certificates before March 5 to lock in the rate. On March 5, redemption bookings are subject to the new unified program award chart.”
“Points Advance — Members can book stays when they do not have enough points if they earn or purchase the needed points at least 14 days prior to check-in. Members who wish to book a points advance redemption under the current Marriott Rewards and SPG award chart are encouraged to order redemption certificates before March 5 to lock in the rate. On March 5, redemption bookings are subject to the new unified program award chart.”
#73
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 153
To all the people defending Marriott I would just note that when I made my points reservation, I confirmed multiple times that when the rates changed, my reservation's rate would remain locked in at that old rate. Multiple times I was told that this wouldn't be a problem and that I only needed to have the points in my account 14 days prior to arrival to ensure that I kept the old rate.
Intentionally misleading customers is illegal in about 10 different ways where I live and I'm sure it is wherever everyone else here lives too. Also note that fine print contradicting the overall public message (that the rate wouldn't change) does not negate the illegality of the practice.
Since making my bookings, I have made non-refundable airfare bookings for my trip. If this policy isn't reversed, I'm sure that I won't be the only one suing Marriott in small claims court. I can't speak for anyone else but I would certainly have a significant economic loss.
Intentionally misleading customers is illegal in about 10 different ways where I live and I'm sure it is wherever everyone else here lives too. Also note that fine print contradicting the overall public message (that the rate wouldn't change) does not negate the illegality of the practice.
Since making my bookings, I have made non-refundable airfare bookings for my trip. If this policy isn't reversed, I'm sure that I won't be the only one suing Marriott in small claims court. I can't speak for anyone else but I would certainly have a significant economic loss.
Last edited by sydneyflyer12; Feb 10, 2019 at 9:59 pm
#74
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 64
There is not. As far as I can tell, this statement was a footnote only provided to the bloggers when they were provided the information regarding the category changes. TPG was the only blogger to initially post about it. The links the public have been provided are:
h
ttps://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
and
https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e2/marrio...ogram=marriott
Neither of these links suggest the change. The first link even still states:
So Marriott is still advertising the ability to save points by booking before 3/5. The consider points advanced reservations to be confirmed bookings so I’m not sure why they are treating them any differently.
You would think Marriott would directly contact people with points advance reservations but I suspect the are purposely trying to take advantage of those customers.
h
ttps://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
and
https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e2/marrio...ogram=marriott
Neither of these links suggest the change. The first link even still states:
- Save up to 25,000 points per night when you book future Category 8 hotels at the Category 7 rate until March 5, 2019.
You would think Marriott would directly contact people with points advance reservations but I suspect the are purposely trying to take advantage of those customers.
#75
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
To all the people defending Marriott I would just note that when I made my points reservation, I confirmed multiple times that when the rates changed, my reservation's rate would remain locked in at that old rate. Multiple times I was told that this wouldn't be a problem and that I only needed to have the points in my account 14 days prior to arrival to ensure that I kept the old rate.
But I agree with you--they are playing with fire on this one with people who have confirmed, non-cancellable flight reservations.