Will existing "Points Advance" reservations raise in price on March 5th???
Feb 9, 2019, 9:21 am
#16
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
I am disappointed but this is pure hyperbole.
Feb 9, 2019, 9:39 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,476
I have four PA reservations but only have enough points for two right now. I may have to cough up more points for two latter ones.
I have no plan to cancel them or change my travel arrangements.
Feb 9, 2019, 9:41 am
#18
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
If they don't have points and the reservation cannot be fulfilled they definitely have a loss.
Feb 9, 2019, 10:29 am
#19
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 39
Hyperbole? This is no different than when you book a paid rate. The hotel can’t just increase your price. You already booked the reservation. I saw nothing before this week suggesting they could raise my rates at any time. Even airlines don’t do this when you put an award on hold.
When I booked my award reservations, nothing was disclosed that the rates were increasing. What is the purpose of using the advance points option if not to lock in a future award?
i don’t think this is hyperbole at all for a class action. There is no precedent at all for raising your rate after you have booked a stay.
I understand Class actions are not usually won by the plaintiffs and even when they are most of the money goes to lawyers. However this would be a PR nightmare for Marriott after the merger. They need to take a deposit on award reservations if they are worried about speculative bookings
When I booked my award reservations, nothing was disclosed that the rates were increasing. What is the purpose of using the advance points option if not to lock in a future award?
i don’t think this is hyperbole at all for a class action. There is no precedent at all for raising your rate after you have booked a stay.
I understand Class actions are not usually won by the plaintiffs and even when they are most of the money goes to lawyers. However this would be a PR nightmare for Marriott after the merger. They need to take a deposit on award reservations if they are worried about speculative bookings
Feb 9, 2019, 10:36 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,476
Best of luck in finding a good Class Action attorney.
Last edited by TerryK; Feb 9, 2019 at 10:42 am
Feb 9, 2019, 11:12 am
#21
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 39
As I’ve said in a previous post, I will let my future business do the talking for me. I don’t need a class action lawsuit.
What I am conveying is that there is no precedent for what Marriott is considering doing in the award world. They also did not disclose this when they started allowing points advance reservations. And yes you are correct that most airlines only allow you to place a hold for a few days. That is besides the point. Marriott chose to allow points reservations for the entire year! That’s their decision.
Marriott and all other large corporations have great lawyers and favorable TCs. So I doubt that they will lose much. However the mere filing of a class action would cause irreparable harm to Marriott at a crucial point in the transition of loyalty programs.
Rest set assured if they are changing reservation terms after the fact, people could argue a monetary loss. If you don’t see that, then you must be on their payroll or a fanboy
What I am conveying is that there is no precedent for what Marriott is considering doing in the award world. They also did not disclose this when they started allowing points advance reservations. And yes you are correct that most airlines only allow you to place a hold for a few days. That is besides the point. Marriott chose to allow points reservations for the entire year! That’s their decision.
Marriott and all other large corporations have great lawyers and favorable TCs. So I doubt that they will lose much. However the mere filing of a class action would cause irreparable harm to Marriott at a crucial point in the transition of loyalty programs.
Rest set assured if they are changing reservation terms after the fact, people could argue a monetary loss. If you don’t see that, then you must be on their payroll or a fanboy
Feb 9, 2019, 11:43 am
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,125
It didn't happen with the August changes (or any other previous changes), and it won't happen now. It would be like booking a non-prepaid rate and charging a higher rate at the hotel.
If they would just eliminate Points Advance, it would remove any possible issue.
If they would just eliminate Points Advance, it would remove any possible issue.
Feb 9, 2019, 11:48 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 64
Two scenarios:
1) Book a 5 night stay for 240k points using the Marriott points advance feature. The agreement at time of booking is that the points have to be in your account 14 days before booking or they are free to cancel your reservation. Reservation is confirmed and 240k redemption cost is listed in the reservation.
2) Book a flexible 5 night stay at a Cat 7 hotel for $4000, the terms of the reservation are that you will pay at the time of stay. Reservation is confirmed and $4000 is due at time of stay.
There has never been anytime where it has been allowed for a hotel to change the cost of a reservation after it had been made regardless of it being prepaid, flexible, or an award. Points advance allows you to confirm a reservation no different than a flexible reservation with cash.
If you had a reservation in scenario 2, a hotel would not tell you “sorry, we changed our rates so you now owe use $5000”. An award reservation, once confirmed, should be treated no differently. If Marriott was not going to honor the existing award rates, they should have been clear about it months ago by including a message saying that rates under points advance reservations are not guaranteed.
I currently have 2 points advance bookings that are not speculative. Flights and other travel arrangements are already confirmed. Marriott has not changed their wording on the confirmations for either nor have the emailed me suggesting I need to purchase the certs with points in order to lock in the rates.
There is no information regarding this change anywhere other than what TPG has pointed out. Is Marriott really going to do this and not directly tell customers who currently hold points advance reservations that this change in their terms is occurring? The terms I agreed to was that I would have until 14 days before the stay to get the points and any change in that is violation of the T&C of points advance reservations and breaking an agreement with a customer. If points are going to be treated as a taxable value, which has recently been made clear that they are, then their redemptions should not be treated differently than a confirmed reservation with cash.
1) Book a 5 night stay for 240k points using the Marriott points advance feature. The agreement at time of booking is that the points have to be in your account 14 days before booking or they are free to cancel your reservation. Reservation is confirmed and 240k redemption cost is listed in the reservation.
2) Book a flexible 5 night stay at a Cat 7 hotel for $4000, the terms of the reservation are that you will pay at the time of stay. Reservation is confirmed and $4000 is due at time of stay.
There has never been anytime where it has been allowed for a hotel to change the cost of a reservation after it had been made regardless of it being prepaid, flexible, or an award. Points advance allows you to confirm a reservation no different than a flexible reservation with cash.
If you had a reservation in scenario 2, a hotel would not tell you “sorry, we changed our rates so you now owe use $5000”. An award reservation, once confirmed, should be treated no differently. If Marriott was not going to honor the existing award rates, they should have been clear about it months ago by including a message saying that rates under points advance reservations are not guaranteed.
I currently have 2 points advance bookings that are not speculative. Flights and other travel arrangements are already confirmed. Marriott has not changed their wording on the confirmations for either nor have the emailed me suggesting I need to purchase the certs with points in order to lock in the rates.
There is no information regarding this change anywhere other than what TPG has pointed out. Is Marriott really going to do this and not directly tell customers who currently hold points advance reservations that this change in their terms is occurring? The terms I agreed to was that I would have until 14 days before the stay to get the points and any change in that is violation of the T&C of points advance reservations and breaking an agreement with a customer. If points are going to be treated as a taxable value, which has recently been made clear that they are, then their redemptions should not be treated differently than a confirmed reservation with cash.
Feb 9, 2019, 11:49 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SFO/YYZ
Programs: AC 25K, AS MVP Gold, BA Bronze, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,459
It did happen with the August changes though. You had to call in, and they would literally deposit the difference in points into your account to then order the new certificate. You could cancel the reservation to get the "free" points back, which is probably part of why this new policy is in place.
Feb 9, 2019, 11:50 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
Two scenarios:
1) Book a 5 night stay for 240k points using the Marriott points advance feature. The agreement at time of booking is that the points have to be in your account 14 days before booking or they are free to cancel your reservation. Reservation is confirmed and 240k redemption cost is listed in the reservation.
2) Book a flexible 5 night stay at a Cat 7 hotel for $4000, the terms of the reservation are that you will pay at the time of stay. Reservation is confirmed and $4000 is due at time of stay.
There has never been anytime where it has been allowed for a hotel to change the cost of a reservation after it had been made regardless of it being prepaid, flexible, or an award. Points advance allows you to confirm a reservation no different than a flexible reservation with cash.
If you had a reservation in scenario 2, a hotel would not tell you “sorry, we changed our rates so you now owe use $5000”. An award reservation, once confirmed, should be treated no differently. If Marriott was not going to honor the existing award rates, they should have been clear about it months ago by including a message saying that rates under points advance reservations are not guaranteed.
I currently have 2 points advance bookings that are not speculative. Flights and other travel arrangements are already confirmed. Marriott has not changed their wording on the confirmations for either nor have the emailed me suggesting I need to purchase the certs with points in order to lock in the rates.
There is no information regarding this change anywhere other than what TPG has pointed out. Is Marriott really going to do this and not directly tell customers who currently hold points advance reservations that this change in their terms is occurring? The terms I agreed to was that I would have until 14 days before the stay to get the points and any change in that is violation of the T&C of points advance reservations and breaking an agreement with a customer. If points are going to be treated as a taxable value, which has recently been made clear that they are, then their redemptions should not be treated differently than a confirmed reservation with cash.
1) Book a 5 night stay for 240k points using the Marriott points advance feature. The agreement at time of booking is that the points have to be in your account 14 days before booking or they are free to cancel your reservation. Reservation is confirmed and 240k redemption cost is listed in the reservation.
2) Book a flexible 5 night stay at a Cat 7 hotel for $4000, the terms of the reservation are that you will pay at the time of stay. Reservation is confirmed and $4000 is due at time of stay.
There has never been anytime where it has been allowed for a hotel to change the cost of a reservation after it had been made regardless of it being prepaid, flexible, or an award. Points advance allows you to confirm a reservation no different than a flexible reservation with cash.
If you had a reservation in scenario 2, a hotel would not tell you “sorry, we changed our rates so you now owe use $5000”. An award reservation, once confirmed, should be treated no differently. If Marriott was not going to honor the existing award rates, they should have been clear about it months ago by including a message saying that rates under points advance reservations are not guaranteed.
I currently have 2 points advance bookings that are not speculative. Flights and other travel arrangements are already confirmed. Marriott has not changed their wording on the confirmations for either nor have the emailed me suggesting I need to purchase the certs with points in order to lock in the rates.
There is no information regarding this change anywhere other than what TPG has pointed out. Is Marriott really going to do this and not directly tell customers who currently hold points advance reservations that this change in their terms is occurring? The terms I agreed to was that I would have until 14 days before the stay to get the points and any change in that is violation of the T&C of points advance reservations and breaking an agreement with a customer. If points are going to be treated as a taxable value, which has recently been made clear that they are, then their redemptions should not be treated differently than a confirmed reservation with cash.
Feb 9, 2019, 11:57 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 39
This is not the case. When i booked my reservations for 240k points after points advance was launched in December, the terms of the reservation clearly said you had to have the points 14 days in advance.
I suspect Marriott did not anticipate the amount of speculative bookings that were going to be made and now they are looking to backtrack.
However they cannot change the terms of existing reservations. This is unprecedented. If they want to stop speculative bookings, add a redeposit fee like airlines do.
I suspect Marriott did not anticipate the amount of speculative bookings that were going to be made and now they are looking to backtrack.
However they cannot change the terms of existing reservations. This is unprecedented. If they want to stop speculative bookings, add a redeposit fee like airlines do.
Feb 9, 2019, 11:59 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
Yep, here are the reward rules in full from my reservation:
"Reward Rules:
Cancelling Your Reservation
You may cancel your reservation for no charge until June 6, 2019 (3 day[s] before arrival). Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.
Modifying Your Reservation
Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change."
Absolutely nothing about repricing once reservation is made.
"Reward Rules:
Cancelling Your Reservation
You may cancel your reservation for no charge until June 6, 2019 (3 day[s] before arrival). Please note that we will assess a fee if you must cancel after this deadline. If you have made a prepayment, we will retain all or part of your prepayment. If not, we will charge your credit card.
Modifying Your Reservation
Please note that a change in the length or dates of your reservation may result in a rate change."
Absolutely nothing about repricing once reservation is made.
Feb 9, 2019, 12:04 pm
#29
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: California
Programs: Marriott: Titanium, SQ: Gold, UA: Silver, Hilton: Diamond, Wyndham - Diamond, TR - Diamond
Posts: 233
Honestly I don't think this is completely unreasonable of Marriott. To hold an airfare with United Airlines you need to pay for that opportunity. One doesn't have the points (money) but one wants to lock in a bunch of rooms before prices go up and expect to get the good rate even though you don't even have the money to buy the room right now or maybe not even in the future. Someone could do this with hundreds of rooms so they have all their options still available. One hotel I like in China is going from 1 to 2. I decided to lock in some category 1 points dates to get the lower rate and 5th night free. During that process noted the Points Advance. I booked a few 5 nights stays using that even though I have enough points to lock in. IT WAS EASY TO SEE I COULD MANIPULATE THE SYSTEM. I was thinking to do many reservations like this. Then of course I started thinking about if I would be entitled to the lower points reservation on borrowed points. That lead me here. It's quite a good deal to be able to use the Points Advance feature for booking a future stay. Manipulating, complaining, whining, threatening lawsuits can only lead to one thing. Termination of the Points Advance program. I think it is totally gaming the system to be expecting to avoid the points increases that we know come every year using Points Advance. Marriott could keep this list secret until the Mar 5th. But they release it which is another advantage to be able to book some rooms with points we actually have before the increase.